22-09-2003 06:35									#151
	Inflate your Upload Space

quote: Originally posted by GePap That is exactly the point: in the US everything is an issue of rights, rights this, rights that...no one cares to accept the soverignty of the government and its ability to make laws: everything has to be about the validation of some fundamental right... There is no right to life, nor right to abortion. What there needs to be is sensible family planning legislation.

I see, so you maintain that you have no ight to live, no right to anything?

I can't see what's wrong with everything being a 'validation of a fundamental right' that's the way we Americans have always worked we only respect 'self evident truths' this we have promised from the start.

You want family planning? Try contraceptives because once that kid is conceived you should give him the life which you have promised him. You should at the very least put him up for adoption, at the very most you could always accept your own responsibility.

If there is no right to life, from which a mother to be derives the right to murder unborn humans who she deems inconvinient I claim the right to kill all who I find inconvinient.

But Society cannot function that way, Society requires absolutes in order to maintain a semblance of order. All governments require absolutes, whether they are the absolutes a despot maintains or the self evident absolutes which a people can see for themselves and upon which they found a government. I claim the right to live, I claim it and I dare you to try to deny me it.

If I were as helpless as that infant would it make it alright to relieve me of that right? Does might make right? If so I dare you to ever criticise Dubyas foreign policy again, because I'm taking names.

quote: no one cares to accept the soverignty of the government and its ability to make laws:

Furthermore, America is likewise founded on popular sovreignty. You Europeans view the government as holy and see it as different than other establishments. It is simply a business, we trade rights for order, we trade tax dollars for roads, schools, available to everyone who pays taxes. The government should have no right to steal, just because it is the government, the government should have no right to impose laws for the sake of having laws. Our government is not seperate from the people, it is the people.

	22-09-2003 09:15									#152
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quote: Originally posted by Ben Kenobi The environment has nothing to do with any intrinsic qualities of the zygote. You still have not rebutted my point, that controlling for an extraneous factor, the environment, we get two completely different results for the zygote than from a skin cell.

The environment is an extraneous factor?

Besides, your point seems to be a zygote is an independent organism. I have already shown that it is not the case.

quote: Originally posted by Ben Kenobi Therefore, the difference must pertain to an intrinsic quality of the zygote, allowing for growth and development, not present in the skin cell.

There is no such intrinsic quality. Even in-vitro fertilisations require very specific conditions.

Or perhaps I should say all cells possess such "intrinsic quality." You have never refuted the point of any body cell can be activated to develop into a person. Recent researches in adult stem cells strongly supports my point.

quote: Originally posted by Ben Kenobi As for your example, would a brain, with blood sustain itself without the rest of the body? With blood, all by itself, could the brain grow and develop? No. This is why the brain does not count as an organism because when provided sustenance, it does not grow and develop. The zygote counts as an organism in that he or she does develop.

This is not your original point. It was

If a zygote requires sustenance, it ought to count as an organism.

	22-09-2003 10:25									#153
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quote: If you believe that women who seek abortions are equally likely to be in a secure relationship, then you are living in a parallel Universe.

Jack:

Flame on.

I want some statistics to back up your point, that woman who choose to have an abortion are in worse circumstances than the woman who choose to keep their child.

	22-09-2003 13:41									#154
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quote: I want some statistics to back up your point, that woman who choose to have an abortion are in worse circumstances than the woman who choose to keep their child.

Do you have statistics indicating that this is NOT the case?

Of course you don't.

Why do you imagine women have abortions?

In every single case that I am personally familiar with, abortion has been due to a failed relationship and/or an attempt to avoid major loss of income. Usually the former.