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Turk Man
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Istanbul
Jan 2003
time: 07:30
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no way in hell
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Rogan Josh
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I suppose the real question is at what point do we regard a featus as human? This baby in the story is at 26 weeks. I don't imagine anyone condoning abortion at 26 weeks, so the smiling is irrelevant.
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Elok
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Land of Ramen Dragons
Mar 2003
time: 00:30
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quote:
Originally posted by Spiffor
It is relevant when you drop the holier than thou attitude for a second, and when you think about the teens and young women who had been made pregnant by a man they trusted, and by a man who cowardly abandoned them.
It is relevant if you think these tenns and young women should be punished for a mistakeful love or not.
It is relevant if you think that contraceptions accidents shouldn't have dastardly consequences for all the people involved in the conception.
In short, it is relevant if you look at reality rather than at your book. |
Compassion isn't the business of the law; government exists to set limits on our passions, not enforce them. Heroin addicts go through hell as a result of bad choices but we still expect them to quit, don't we? If you assume a fetus has the rights of human beings, a woman who aborts in unsanitary conditions is essentially no different from a murderer who attacks armed targets. If you do not assume such rights, the entire argument is clearly in favor of 'choicers start-to-finish, we pro-lifers are just a fringe group like PETA to be propitiated with half-hearted regulations, and the back-alley argument is merely trivial, on the level of a claim that failing to integrate computers into education causes excessive paper cuts. Either way it's a damnably stupid thing to say.
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Lincoln
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The "child" in question can live outside the womb. Glad to hear though that you are "all for abortion". Kind of says quite a bit about you as well.
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Ecthy
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Zhonghuà Rénmín Gònghéguó
Mar 2000
time: 06:30
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I don't care for what other people do, but I couldn't have my own child aborted. If you don't want it / can't pay for it, let other people care for it and try staying in touch. If you do want it, raise it.
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Elok
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Land of Ramen Dragons
Mar 2003
time: 00:30
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quote:
Originally posted by Spiffor
This is exactly why your religious babble is not listened by the lawmakers. They try to achieve results, i.e to get an orderly society without tons of unraised kids running galore. This was the core of planned parenthood from the beginning (in the lawmaker's perspective), and this will remain so.
Since your position is only backed with passion, I'm damn glad the government won't enforce it 
And I don't know about your country, but in mine, the State provides hospitals and institutions specialized in making this quitting as efficient and as humane as possible.
But maybe you think that threatening junkies with the "quit-or-Bubba-will-have-your-ass" argument is a better solution ?
I don't know. In my culture, we try to solve problems. I thought the Americans enjoyed solving their problems too. |
The lawmakers don't listen to us because a fetus won't be able to vote for nearly twenty years, whereas the desperate and pregnant can vote now. Don't get all high and mighty, eh?
Kindly listen to the arguments I am making. If abortion is tolerable, it can be allowed regardless and the argument is daft. If it is not tolerable, i.e. if we see the unborn as worthy of human rights, then it is nothing more than an attempt to cover the more relevant point with appeals to squirmy feelings in your guts.
Just FYI, I believe the ideal solution for the drug problem would be something along the lines of crucifixion for drug dealers. Maybe not quite that cruel, but something so intolerable as vending death to the foolish is not acceptable. More or less the same for back-alley abortionists. See how long it takes for them to cut the crap then.
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Ecthy
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Zhonghuà Rénmín Gònghéguó
Mar 2000
time: 06:30
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there should be capital punishment on abortion
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Lincoln
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quote:
Originally posted by Urban Ranger
You eat meat there Lincoln? |
Yes, but I don't eat babies. What is yor point?
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My Wife Hates CIV
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Michigan
Jan 1970
time: 05:30
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quote:
Originally posted by GePap
People in the uS need to get a grip on the issue: it's interesting how most European countries have little problem with the issue.
And it should remain legal. |
No... only half the people in the US need to get a grip. Just happens to be the retarded half who also voted for Bush. So, as you can see, it's not going to happen any time soon.
Read the little article... means nothing.
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Jack the Bodiless
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Converted underground reservoir tank.
Jan 1970
time: 05:30
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quote:
Originally posted by Ben Kenobi
SUICIDE
It is generally accepted that induced abortion increases the risk that a woman will commit suicide. |
...Well, if there was any lingering doubt that you are the poster formerly known as "Obiwan", I guess this nails it.
How many times have you trotted out this bogus argument now? And how many times has it been shot down in flames?
Is this sort of nonsense only used in anti-abortion arguments? I can see a few other potential uses for it:
"Here are statistics which show that fighter pilots who eject from their aircraft are significantly more likely to sustain injury or death than those who land normally after an uneventful patrol. Therefore ejection seats are hazardous, and should be removed from all fighter aircraft immediately".
Similar arguments can be used against seat belts, airbags, fire extinguishers: all safety devices which are used in incidents where injuries and deaths abound. So let's ban them all!
quote:
That's two premisses, both unverified.
1. Are women in this situation more likely to have an abortion?
2. Are these same women more likely to commit suicide?
Do you have the statistical evidence to back either of these statements? |
The burden of proof lies with the person making the extraordinary claim. And you are making TWO extraordinary claims:
1. Women who seek abortions are just as happy with their situation as normal expectant mothers. They have nothing to be depressed about. Life is just peachy for them.
2. Women who seek and are denied abortions are happy about that. It doesn't bother them at all. They didn't really want one anyway.
It's difficult to see why anyone should believe such nonsense, even for a moment (let alone trot it out repeatedly). But it does appear to support the stereotype of (some) anti-abortion types as being "out of touch with reality". In particular, Extraordinary Belief 1 looks a lot like "women who seek abortions are callous, evil murderesses who just don't care about human life, they're too busy having fun screwing around". And Extraordinary Belief 2 looks rather like "God made women to be permanently barefoot and pregnant, that makes 'em happy, even if they don't realize that yet".
Would you care to support either Extraordinary Belief? And will you remove your seat belts and disconnect your airbag?
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Dis
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Las Vegas, Nevada
Feb 2000
time: 21:30
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quote:
Originally posted by Jack the Bodiless
...Well, if there was any lingering doubt that you are the poster formerly known as "Obiwan", I guess this nails it.
How many times have you trotted out this bogus argument now? And how many times has it been shot down in flames?
Is this sort of nonsense only used in anti-abortion arguments? I can see a few other potential uses for it:
"Here are statistics which show that fighter pilots who eject from their aircraft are significantly more likely to sustain injury or death than those who land normally after an uneventful patrol. Therefore ejection seats are hazardous, and should be removed from all fighter aircraft immediately".
Similar arguments can be used against seat belts, airbags, fire extinguishers: all safety devices which are used in incidents where injuries and deaths abound. So let's ban them all!
The burden of proof lies with the person making the extraordinary claim. And you are making TWO extraordinary claims:
1. Women who seek abortions are just as happy with their situation as normal expectant mothers. They have nothing to be depressed about. Life is just peachy for them.
2. Women who seek and are denied abortions are happy about that. It doesn't bother them at all. They didn't really want one anyway.
It's difficult to see why anyone should believe such nonsense, even for a moment (let alone trot it out repeatedly). But it does appear to support the stereotype of (some) anti-abortion types as being "out of touch with reality". In particular, Extraordinary Belief 1 looks a lot like "women who seek abortions are callous, evil murderesses who just don't care about human life, they're too busy having fun screwing around". And Extraordinary Belief 2 looks rather like "God made women to be permanently barefoot and pregnant, that makes 'em happy, even if they don't realize that yet".
Would you care to support either Extraordinary Belief? And will you remove your seat belts and disconnect your airbag? |
jeez, talk about close minded. And how you can compare abortion to ejecting out of a fighter jet is riciculous. Nothing more needs to be said about this post.
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Ben Kenobi
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McGregornobi!
Oct 2002
time: 21:30
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Where to start?
Jack:
quote:
Well, if there was any lingering doubt that you are the poster formerly known as "Obiwan", I guess this nails it.
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Gee. Like I tried to hide the change. 
quote:
1. Women who seek abortions are just as happy with their situation as normal expectant mothers. They have nothing to be depressed about. Life is just peachy for them.
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So life is all peachy for those who are expecting? I thought that pregnancy was a terrible burden, hence the need for abortion. Nowhere does my argument assume that life is all good for either, both groups have their problems. My argument merely states that both groups will be approximately the same.
quote:
2. Women who seek and are denied abortions are happy about that. It doesn't bother them at all. They didn't really want one anyway.
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No. All I say is that women who carry their child on average, commit suicide far less than the woman who choose to abort.
Secondly, when was the last time a woman was denied an abortion?
quote:
"Here are statistics which show that fighter pilots who eject from their aircraft are significantly more likely to sustain injury or death than those who land normally after an uneventful patrol. Therefore ejection seats are hazardous, and should be removed from all fighter aircraft immediately".
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Most abortions are not performed to save the life of the mother. The only exception to this is ectopic pregnancy, which occurs around 1% of all pregnancies. The vast majority are performed for reasons of convenience, as Spiffor has aptly demonstrated. Without an ejection seat, the pilot will die in a plane crash. Without an abortion, can we say that all mothers will die?
Most importantly,
Abortion always results in the death of an unborn child. Ejection seats do not kill another person during operation.
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14-09-2003 16:09
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