21-01-2001 10:08									#31
	Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

SG [1] - I didn't want to talk to anybody! A spy (receptive) knocked on my door and asked for "Peace" with the Mongols! I agreed. It wasn't quite the right moment to say "go away".

Let's see if John wants to carry on as he is the next player.

There are a couple of other things I will e-mail you about! - I did e-mail you on Friday afternoon at work with the log.

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SG(2)

	21-01-2001 14:09									#32
	Put an end to popups!

Let’s try again ! It’s when you lose than you learn the most. At least that’s what I was told when I was a young chess player. Then I learned that it’s when can’t take too much losing than you play the less. But it’s another story. I only propose that it’s now up to the second or third player on the list to try to start the game. We headed North, but maybe not long enough. Or we can directly try through the sea, or … Tant qu’il y a de la vie, il y a de l’espoir. And I hate losing. Let’s try again !
But I wonder what SG1 has done to the game ? was Writing researched before Code of Laws, or were my eyes to tired when I read the posts ?

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Oh Man, when will you understand that your greatness lies in your failure - Goethe

	21-01-2001 20:29									#34
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So, take it away John.

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Frodo lives!

	21-01-2001 21:32									#35
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Uh... I could try a (take 3) start but I'd need to have the first game file. Right now all I have is the 3000bc save.

John-SJ

	22-01-2001 01:56									#36
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OK, I'm looking for a consensus here.

I replayed the headstart game a couple of times just to see what would happen. Once I found out where the Mongol spies were going to show up I prepared for them. As a result I was able to bribe 3 of them (though I stupidly lost one in battle) and both cities I was given still survive. In addition I tipped a hut and found a nomad so there are 3 cities, and the 2 original ones are now producing settlers.

So, my question is, should I send the save game on to kcbob, or is my latest adventure to be considered cheating? I await your reply(s)...

John-SJ

	22-01-2001 03:49									#37
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

Sorry guys ----

I have opened up the current games with the cheat menu - and you ain't got a chance - basically the problem is that the AIs are trading techs like mad and will - with the starting advantages I gave them get to AC in about 10AD - having eaten you three times before breakfast.

DaveV how do I stop the AIs from talking to each other without setting them at each others throats??

With this secret and a slightly reduced Mongol advantage - maybe only a couple of Dips rather than 4 vet Spies - the scenario should be more playable...

Blame it all on me babe..........

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____________
Scouse Git[1]

"CARTAGO DELENDA EST" - Cato the Censor
"The Great Library must be built!"
"A short cut has to be challenging,
were it not so it would be 'the way'." - Paul Craven

	22-01-2001 05:36									#38
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

John (All) - When I read your first log and saw what happened I played on from 3000BC. Exactly like your second try I bribed 3 Mongol spies. Two basically headed south one went in the Trireme. Whilst sailing around the coast we bumped into a Russian submarine! I didn't quite have enough gold to bribe it - so I used sabotage.

My main hope was to use one of the spies to steal a more advanced form of government. I had 6 cities by 1550BC, and with no capital corruption/waste was painful. I was hoping to steal Communism/Fundy or at least Monarchy!

Here is my log for 1550BC which explains why I thought there was no point in going further:

1550BC - Spy investigates Shangtu: One musketeer present; Establish Embassy: Here is the list of techs they have that are white:

Bronze
CBurial
CoL
Combustion
Construction
Currency
Engineering
Feudalism
Gunpowder
Invention
Literacy
Masonry
Mysticism
Philo
Polytheism
Pottery
Seafaring
Warrior Code
Wheel

I have just spent the evening with SG[1] and we opened up this year(1550BC)in cheat mode. There is a constant stream of Mongol Horsemen/Elephants/Catapults heading towards us from the south. There are about a dozen French subs to the south, not to mention those from the Mongol's navy. The Russians have a nice little "Wolf Pack" of subs to our east.

SG[1] will make some alterations and stop the AI trading techs as well as reducing their advantage.

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SG(2)

	23-01-2001 18:32									#39
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Grovel, grovel, grovel ...

AI Headstart Succession (Take 2) now available from here.

This has been sent to SG(1). I guarantee you will have at least a millenium before they get to you (well I hope you will have at least a millenium).

Good civin' knowing my luck this one will prove too easy!

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____________
Scouse Git[1]

"CARTAGO DELENDA EST" - Cato the Censor
"The Great Library must be built!"
"A short cut has to be challenging,
were it not so it would be 'the way'." - Paul Craven

	23-01-2001 21:17									#40
	Increase the size of your Attachments

Take Two

4000 - Finchley was already founded for us - on a very acceptable spot. We also started with an Explorer; Alphabet research goal.
3900 - Grantham founded on the wine ; Nomad from hut;
3800 - Alphabet now researching CB; Canterbury built on mountain (wheat close by makes it viable) - well if they come this way the bad guys will have something to get past!
3700 - Archer from hut
3650 - CB discovered: CoL now target
3600 - 50g from hut
3500 - CoL discovered now for Monarchy
3450 - KNIGHT from hut!
3350 - Another archer from hut! - too many units supported by Canterbury - shield shortage: disband Canterbury's warrior
3250 - MONARCHY just in time for no anarchy! Now Horseback Riding; Another Knight from hut;
3150 - Coventry built on Gems: 50 Gold from hut;
3050 - Horseback Riding - Now researching Writing; Barracks built at Finchley;
3000 - Still alive - but awaiting visitors!

Game sent to John and copy of 3000BC save to other players

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SG(2)


[This message has been edited by Scouse Gits (edited January 23, 2001).]
[This message has been edited by Scouse Gits (edited January 23, 2001).]

	24-01-2001 10:44									#41
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Why am I reminded of the man who fell off of the Empire State building and as he passed the fiftieth floor was asked "How you doing?" and responded "So far, so good."

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Frodo lives!

	24-01-2001 07:15									#42
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

And we're still kicking! Seven cities now, and more coming. Warwick, when it's a pop 2 city can produce 6 shields/turn!

And now...

A short history of the Tory tribe, 2950 bc - 2000 bc.

2950 - Exploring on land, but keeping an eye to the sea. And I see a barbarian raiding party off the coast.
2850 - Barbarians land
2800 - Writing has been researched. Now working on pottery as we understand that truly wonderous things can be done with pottery given the right setting, like maybe that garden in Finchley... Hut, Warrior Code. Warwick built.
2750 - China discovers philisophy
2700 - Hut 50G
2650 - Hut Barbs! Explorer lost. :-(
2450 - Pottery discoverd, now researching Bronze Working
(The ruler, who claims to be hard of hearing, has just discovered that wonders are disabled. :rolleyes
2350 - Newcastle built, Hut 50G
2100 - BW discovered. (oh well, at least the phalanxes are nice) Working on Currency. Oxford was built this year.
2050 - Hut Currency.

To the next Ruler: If you take the horsemen near Newcastle due east you may find a barb leader before he escapes. Good luck on your journey.

Download the Save Game Here.

John-SJ

I'll edit this message shortly when I get the save game up for you all to d/l.
[This message has been edited by John-SJ (edited January 23, 2001).]
[This message has been edited by John-SJ (edited January 23, 2001).]

	24-01-2001 15:33									#43
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

Report from Olympus

You have been lucky thus far - both the Mongols and Zulus have chosen to play perfectionist! In my test game I had already encountered Mongol cities by this stage (with a similar quantity of exploration).

You are still bottom of the PowerGraph - the nearest being about 100% ahead of you.

Beware the Chinese!

end of Oracular Report #1

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____________
Scouse Git[1]

"CARTAGO DELENDA EST" - Cato the Censor
"The Great Library must be built!"
"A short cut has to be challenging,
were it not so it would be 'the way'." - Paul Craven

	25-01-2001 07:49									#44
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

As I said earlier, "so far, so good". Finished 500 years and am passing on to Julius.

In the early days of our people, there were many small towns scattered across the face of the land. Meager support was found in them for the defense of the inhabitants. So it was that the elders of the Most High Council set forth on a course to find new ways to protect the people, new ways to seek divine favour from the Most High gods. Polytheism with its oliphants and many gods was chosen as the way to seek out new lands and deliverance from our enemies.

Then, within 50 winters, a new city was begun. Liverpool it was called and a prophecy of a group of leaders with strange hair and music in their voices was foretold (but that’s a story for another time).

Polytheism was discovered after another 150 winters and Iron Working was decreed as the next area to improve ourselves. Mighty are our foes and strong we must be to vanquish them.

Another 150 winters passed. The world seemed peaceful. But peace and harmony can be transient. Lo! Barbarians at the eastern edge of the empire. Valiantly our lone knight fought. Courageously he stood his ground. Victoriously he triumphed! (How else would one triumph?)

The concept of Trade was found lying in a dirty hut, a gift horse not to be laughed at. Roads were begun for the purpose of connecting our great cities, to aid in their defense should the need arise. And as the sun set on this era in our history, a single settler was seen taking the first step towards what was hoped to be Nirvana. A mountain of gold in the south, seen from afar, beckoned this brave nomad. And off he went as the reigns of power were passed to the next in line to command our noble people.


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Frodo lives!

	26-01-2001 10:36									#45
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

Game received. I don’t have much time to play now, and I guess I need to be in top form for this one ! I’m going to try to play Saturday or Sunday morning. I’m in no hurry to meet the other tribes …

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Oh Man, when will you understand that your greatness lies in your failure - Goethe

	28-01-2001 19:12									#46
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

Only 11 turns played and game sent to DaveV.
Sorry I didn’t have too much time and had not a good feeling about the situation. But, no enemies so far and some gifts from the huts.


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Oh Man, when will you understand that your greatness lies in your failure - Goethe

	28-01-2001 19:14									#47
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

1500 BC We’re still alive ? Yes !
1450 BC Iron working, feudalism is next.
1400 BC Feudalism from a hut, chivalry is next.
1350 BC We’ve got disorder in size 2 Liverpool. Why so much hatred ?
1300 BC Dover founded.
1250 BC Brighton founded. 100g from a hut.
1100 BC Chivalry, map making is next. Norwich founded.
1050 BC Leeds founded. Crusaders from a hut.
1000 BC Due to unexpected private circumstances, King Julius passes his turn sooner than expected. Let’s hope he didn’t have time to screw it all, because he wasn’t exactly inspired today.

	29-01-2001 17:18									#48
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

I enjoyed this thread sooo much more when you guys were getting creamed.

But maybe the AI is merely biding it's time?

	29-01-2001 17:34									#49
	Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

For what it's worth EST - I have been playing this one on my ownsome - with all the advance knowledge that setting the thing up allows - I'm at 1570AD just got Communism - still last in the Powergraph and really doubting my ability to either conquer or win an AC race before 2000 - but my Mongols were more aggressive than they appear to have been to the lads ...

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____________
Scouse Git[1]

"CARTAGO DELENDA EST" - Cato the Censor
"The Great Library must be built!"
"A short cut has to be challenging,
were it not so it would be 'the way'." - Paul Craven

	29-01-2001 17:50									#50
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

I have the game. I just finished playing the gigamap game, so this is next on the agenda...

	31-01-2001 17:42									#51
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

In a shocking departure from tradition, King Dave concentrated on building up infrastructure and trade routes. With Bridge Building on the horizon, we should be able to make Finchley a mighty trading center. A brief history:

1000 Upon succession, King Dave decrees sweeping changes to the kingdom. With little regard for the efforts of his predecessors,
King Dave drains the royal treasury to rush build units and improvements.
975 Library in Finchley
925 Barb horse from hut. He moves away from my crusader !
875 Mapmaking discovered; Masonry next. Literacy from hut.
850 Temple in Finchley; two settlers build Finchley to size 4.
725 Hut: 50 Gold
700 Masonry, Construction next
675 Hut: Mathematics
650 Hut: Legion (NONE)
625 Hut: barb horsemen *8; crusaders disbanded . Salt (demanded) Warwick->Finchley: 24. Salt Oxford->Finchley: 10
600 Hut: crusaders (NONE)
550 Grantham disbanded. Salt Newcastle->Finchley: 18. Finchley size 8.
525 WLTQD in Finchley. Salt Liverpool->Finchley: 26. Hut: Legion (Coventry ). Hut: Crusaders (NONE)
500 Coventry disbanded

	01-02-2001 01:18									#52
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

Revisionist!
---------
SG(2)

	01-02-2001 02:09									#53
	Get a bigger avatar today!

Eh ! Double post ! And big surprise !

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Oh Man, when will you understand that your greatness lies in your failure - Goethe
[This message has been edited by Julius Brenzaida (edited January 31, 2001).]

	01-02-2001 02:10									#54
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

Eh ! Dave is trying to win with OCC or what ?



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Oh Man, when will you understand that your greatness lies in your failure - Goethe

	01-02-2001 04:56									#56
	Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

I think I'm next - an opportunity to practise my Perfectionist skills!

----------

SG(2)

	01-02-2001 07:34									#57
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Hmmm, I finally got around to downloading the original scenario for the game we're playing just to see our empire from it's humbles beginning. I noticed that there is an events.txt file included with the scenario. Do all players need a copy of this, or are the events saved in the save game file making it unneccessary for all players after the first?

John-SJ

	01-02-2001 12:36									#58
	Browse Apolyton AD-FREE

John-SJ - it is my humble belief that the events are incorporated into the save file once the scenario is begun. However, I am no expert and could easily be mistaken.

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____________
Scouse Git[1]

"CARTAGO DELENDA EST" - Cato the Censor
"The Great Library must be built!"
"A short cut has to be challenging,
were it not so it would be 'the way'." - Paul Craven

	06-02-2001 06:32									#59
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

Hmmm, Is this game still being played? It's been awhile, so just thought I'd ask.

John-SJ

	06-02-2001 06:50									#60
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

Yes .. I should be able to pass it on tomorrow.
---------
SG(2)