16-09-2003 20:46									#1
	Question about the UK's Foreign Policy Inflate your Upload Space

Why does Great Britain perfer to be a pet of the United States rather than a semi-equal among Europeans?

Is it that the UK's economic interests with the US are greater? Is there a psychological factor, kind of like a father working at his son's company? Why? Do you guys just like being the little yappy dogs hanging out with the big dog?

Why be a small fish sharing a big pond with a whale when they could be a medium fish in a medium pond with other medium fish?

	16-09-2003 20:48									#2
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

at that last question.

	16-09-2003 20:52									#3
	Inflate your Upload Space

The answer to all those questions is simple: USA is the 'Top' and we're the 'Bottom'. All those other Euro countries aren't man enough to satisfy our desires. Those Frenchies don't even have the common courtesy to give us a reach-around.

	16-09-2003 20:59									#4
	Tired of ads?

Blair isn't Bush's poodle, but his guide dog.

	16-09-2003 21:00									#5
	Put an end to popups!

Well as a Briton, I think the reason many of us are so anti-european is that the French and Germans are so bloody arrogant. They believe that their viewpoint equals Europes viewpoint, as can be seen by Chiracs comment to the Eastern Europeans simply because they were pro-war. However I certainly do not like to see Blair acting as Bush's foreign minister, but my political views aswell as many others in Britain are more in line with the US view of the world than the French/German one.

	16-09-2003 21:08									#6
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

My views are much closer to Europe than the US.

US internal policies and accepted ideas about taxation, social services, crime and punishment, drug prohibition, education, abortion, self defence etc. are all completely alien to me whereas I'm very closer to the policies on those things in France and Germany. Where we differ is a matter of degrees rather than fundamental differences.

That said, we are as semi-Equal in europe and we have the links with the US as well. We're trying to have the best of both worlds.

	16-09-2003 21:11									#7
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

quote: Originally posted by Derekrage Well as a Briton, I think the reason many of us are so anti-european is that the French and Germans are so bloody arrogant. They believe that their viewpoint equals Europes viewpoint, as can be seen by Chiracs comment to the Eastern Europeans simply because they were pro-war. However I certainly do not like to see Blair acting as Bush's foreign minister, but my political views aswell as many others in Britain are more in line with the US view of the world than the French/German one.

Perhaps you don't know, but to most other countries Britain's international attitude appears just as arrogant as Germany/France's attitude.

	16-09-2003 21:12									#8
	Got spare money?

then again, being arrogant seems to be inherent to big nations..

	16-09-2003 21:16									#9
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

quote: Originally posted by Trajanus Perhaps you don't know, but to most other countries Britain's international attitude appears just as arrogant as Germany/France's attitude.

Absolutely. We're allowed to be arrogant because we have an enormous empire though! Oh... no... wait a minute... must be because we're so good at football... damn...

Shut up or we'll make America beat you up.

	16-09-2003 21:16									#10
	Increase the size of your Attachments

Trajanus-How so? We don't act like we rule Europe like the French or Germans, when our European allies disagree with us we don't tell them to shut up like Chirac did.

	16-09-2003 21:23									#11
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

MikeH-Yes your views may be similar to the French, and a hell of a lot of Britons are however there are a lot like me who are more in line with the US.

	16-09-2003 21:25									#12
	Suffering from ads?

Arrogance is never a diplomatic issue; Rumsfeld was really arrogant when he said that if the UK were prevented to participate in the Irak adventure, this would cause a minor inconvenience easily corrected by limited adjustements of their plans. You did not react because arrogance has no diplomatic value, and never achieve anything.

So, you should find something more important.

	16-09-2003 21:30									#13
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

quote: Originally posted by Derekrage MikeH-Yes your views may be similar to the French, and a hell of a lot of Britons are however there are a lot like me who are more in line with the US.

I know, it depresses me.

	16-09-2003 21:40									#14
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

...revoke the declaration of independence!!

	16-09-2003 21:41									#15
	Full PM-box? Change here!

We've got enough problems of our own without taking on America's.

	16-09-2003 21:41									#16
	Got spare money?

MikeH-Just as the amount of people who are left wing depresses me

Davout-Rumsfield might have been arragont but he was correct, UK troops weren't really needed for the attack on Iraq.
But you have to admit the French and Germans act like they rule Europe, and I should add if a British primeminister had said what Chirac said you lot would have been going crazy and we would probabley have been forced to have some sort of inquiry by our left wing media

	16-09-2003 21:46									#17
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

We were needed. They had a lack of combat infantry on the ground at the time they wanted to invade, which is why we were used in the actual invasion rather than as support troops as was originally planned.

Ok so the Americans could have waited for more forces to build up but we where there.

Chirac is nuts, I think the majority of the French would agree with that.

It's lucky our media is left wing, none of the major political parties are any more.

	16-09-2003 21:47									#18
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

And anyway there's plenty of extreme right wing media in this country. Just look at the Daily Mail if you want extreme right wing reactionism.

	16-09-2003 21:49									#19
	Suffering from ads?

I would say that the Liberal Democrats and labour, now that the damn trade unions are back in, are very left wing

	16-09-2003 21:51									#20
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

The Daily mail are right wing but I wouldn't call them extreme.

	16-09-2003 21:55									#21
	Re: Question about the UK's Foreign Policy Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

quote: Originally posted by chegitz guevara Why does Great Britain perfer to be a pet of the United States rather than a semi-equal among Europeans?

That's more than a little arrogant, unless pets with nuclear strike capabilities and G7 economies are commonplace round your neck of the woods.

	16-09-2003 22:10									#22
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

The UK, by being a staunch ally of the USA, has far more influence on US foreign policy then any other country in the world, and so with it's alliance has far more influence then it would allying itself with the likes of France and Germany.

	16-09-2003 22:31									#23
	Tired of ads?

quote: Originally posted by Derekrage But you have to admit the French and Germans act like they rule Europe, and I should add if a British primeminister had said what Chirac said you lot would have been going crazy and we would probabley have been forced to have some sort of inquiry by our left wing media

The EU was originally founded by the countries which needed it the most. Progressively, smaller peripherical countries aggregated when they though it was worth for them to do so. The complaints they make now regarding the way the house is organised have not the same importance as the complaints they could have made before when they had to suffer the worst consequences of Germany and France decisions. Now at least they have a say, and participating in the process is a considerable improvement compared to their situation in the first half of the 20th century.

It is clear that the UK had not the same vital interest in a strategical alliance shaping the next hundred years than Germany and France, and they joined when the economic community was on its feet. Now they are afraid to observe that the ties with the EU are on the way to become more intimate and stronger. The Euro is a signal of increased integration, and ultimately of power, shared power but real power anyway. The proximity, the increasing mixing of people will influence the outcome. But there is no hurry for the UK to merge completely with the EU and share the Germano-French dictatorship !

As for Chirac : Alas!

	16-09-2003 22:40									#24
	Re: Re: Question about the UK's Foreign Policy Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

quote: Originally posted by Lazarus and the Gimp That's more than a little arrogant,

I'm an American, arrogance is our birthright.

	16-09-2003 22:44									#25
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

quote: Why does Great Britain perfer to be a pet of the United States rather than a semi-equal among Europeans?

Pets don't get to choose who their master is.

	16-09-2003 22:49									#26
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

quote: The EU was originally founded by the countries which needed it the most. Progressively, smaller peripherical countries aggregated when they though it was worth for them to do so. The complaints they make now regarding the way the house is organised have not the same importance as the complaints they could have made before when they had to suffer the worst consequences of Germany and France decisions. Now at least they have a say, and participating in the process is a considerable improvement compared to their situation in the first half of the 20th century.

I can understand that the French and Germans created the EU and did all the running, so they believe that they are the natural leaders and view the UK as an obstacle to a Euro superstate.
I think that this is a major part of the anti-EU sentiment around the country. I would prefer and I think the majority of Britons would prefer what we signed up for when we joined, a trading organisation.
And the worst thing about it is that our leaders keep giving away power to Brussels without our consent.

	16-09-2003 22:52									#27
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

shi: that's not accurate, most of our influence in the world comes from the fact we used to own rather a lot of it

davout, both germany and france have tried to unify europe before and we have stopped them, why change a winning formular

	16-09-2003 22:58									#28
	Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

derek, i think you hit the nail on the head

over here we like free trade with europe and we like the free movement of people, capital, good and services between european nations. what we don't like is people with nothing better to do in brussels telling us how round our eggs, or how straight our bananas have to be! what we really don't like is handing over power to people in brussels that we don't elect and are totally unaccountable to the british public.

	16-09-2003 23:04									#29
	Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

The UK isn't a pet. They are a partner and more often then not Blair ends up being the one who makes the important policy decisions. The partnership has survived two world wars and a cold war and has been the most successful one in history so why rock the boat now?

	16-09-2003 23:04									#30
	Remove this text

exactly COckney at least there's one sane Briton here