15-10-2003 20:06									#481
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Well, I can't look at any of your posts in case I see the result of a game I haven't watched yet (all the games are on a 72 hour delay here), but I do have a few comments to make.

So far I've seen Oz v Argentina and NZ v Italy.

I thought Argentina really let themselves down and could have come within 7 points if not won the game. Their lineouts were dire, but the main thing IMO that killed them was slow ruck ball and failure to pass the ball wide.

NZ looked pretty rusty against Italy, but Italy also played a good game. Pool D is going to be pretty easy for NZ, but I think this is a good thing as they need a few more games together.

Did you guys hear about Adidas taking the "New Zealand" part out of the "New Zealand All Blacks" name? Or was it the NZRFU? Whoever it was, I can't understand the logic behind that one.

I got my England jersey BTW...I'll wear it during every game they play to put a hex on them.

And in case any of you were wondering - yes, I am keeping an eye on the post count for this thread. Looks like I'll need to start another one sometime in the next couple of days.

	15-10-2003 20:08									#482
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quote: Originally posted by Havak The Fiji-USA game is putting Fiji's reputed strength into perspective even as I write - it's not good stuff? No worries for Les Bleus from the Eagles here.

Six people over for dinner tonight. Goats Cheese & Caramelised Onion Tart, Baby Rack of Lamb with a Garlic Flan & Flagelots for the carnivores, Roasted Salmon with the same sides for the vegies. Homemade Honey Ice Cream sandwiched between Homemade Waffle Biscuits with Raspberry Coulis for pud. I'm not only as full as a goog, I missed all tonight's matches! Now I'll have to sit up all night watching the replays!

quote: Interesting piece from John Inverdale I found here Okay it is going to offend Kiwi's (particularly our friends who saw the forward passes against Georgia but kept totally silent on the ones against Italy) but John is a level headed guy and fairly astute normally. Perhaps Finbar can tell us if League and AFL are out to ridicule the tournament?

I've never heard of Mr Inverdale, but I couldn't agree more with him. Everyone is getting away with this these so-called flat passes that are just about always forward. Yet another argument for an extra ref. Or, at least, extra linesmen.

The L***** people are keeping fairly quiet. There's been the occasional idiotic column - Phil Gould's springs to mind - but they know their season is over, and the blanket coverage of the WRC here in Sydney - and probably in Brisbane, too - is such that they know they'd be wasting their time bagging it. The Kangaroos have just headed off on their meaningless trip to the various small acreages around the world that play the game. There is, in fact, more coverage of the ongoing dispute between Kangaroo coach Chris Anderson and Cronulla, the club he coaches, than there is of the tour itself. The club didn't renew the coach's son's playing contract for next season, so the coach promptly sacked the Cronulla people from the Kangaroos' coaching and management squads. *** for tat. The club has just served him with his third notice of breach of contract.

As to the AFL, I haven't - physically - seen any of the Melbourne media, but I gather they're bagging the game and the event along the usual lines - silly game where people keep kicking the ball out of play; arcane rulings around the breakdown; lop-sided pool matches, etc. Nothing unexpected.

BTW, late last night I discovered a bit of a FoxSports marathon of vintage rugby matches. Vintage, literally. I came in halfway through the first Test of the 1966 Lions tour here! It pre-dates my knowledge of and interest in rugby - I was at school in Melbourne - but it was fascinating observing the ways the game has changed. The most astonishing thing, though, was the difference in the overall skills levels. Obviously fitness levels had a deal to do with it, but it frequently resembled - relatively speaking - a patchy club game.

	15-10-2003 20:12									#483
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Cal - don't go too far away. We're going to need a new thread soon.

	15-10-2003 20:23									#484
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Don't worry, I'm watching the post count.

	16-10-2003 08:59									#485
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quote: Did you guys hear about Adidas taking the "New Zealand" part out of the "New Zealand All Blacks" name? Or was it the NZRFU? Whoever it was, I can't understand the logic behind that one.

You can't copyright "New Zealand", so the NZRFU changed the logo so they could copyright it.

	16-10-2003 09:04									#486
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Had the first game in Canberra last night. There was a huge traffic jam because just about all 20,000 spectators showed up 5 minutes before the game started.

In terms of team support, it was Tonga versus Italy, the local radio is running an odds and evens system based on your house number.

	16-10-2003 10:07									#487
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A similar thing's happening in Tassie with the one match down there. Namibia -v- Romania at Launceston. Only I think they've organised it on birthdays - if your birthday is an even number, you support one team; odd number, the other.

	16-10-2003 13:22									#488
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quote: Originally posted by Havak You lost – and no one thought it was even worth thinking about because there were ‘factors’ that forgave it?

Pretty much. It was a blip, but it wasn't a game either. And I can't be bothered to walk back down that ropey old path again.. can you?

quote: Rugby is such a cyclical game - you are in great form right now but I think we forget that has not been the case very long this time around?

I suppose it is. How do you explain the English cycle then? They were toilet for years and years and only since they went pro fairly recently have managed to pull a decent team together.

quote: Um – this England team is at least as radically different in style from our 91, 95 and 99 sides as the AB one is – so I kind of lost your point in their somewhere.

The point was we have chosen our guns who play a fast game and fire running, rather than kicking for territory etc. England has a team playing classical traditional rugby - the same old formula used from day dot – and that is as I mentioned earlier, a game based on patience, control, tight defence, and percentages.

quote: I will not cite 95 as it still holds bad memories for the ABs – food poisoning was it not?

Yeah, although it has recently emerged that the players who were heaving up over the touchlines went against the rules and ate from a dodgy takeaway that was down the road from their hotel the night before the final. So the Saffees appear to be innocent on that one..

quote: Personally I think the thing that failed you in 91 was the overt support of Dame Kiri - imagine letting someone who married an Aussie sing before your games.

I didn’t know she married an Aussie. Well that explains it then. Right, I’ll be on the first plane to Aussie to give her a good slapping!

	16-10-2003 14:09									#489
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Well Finbar made me extremely hungry yesterday just as I was about to drive home – many thanks for that.

John Inverdale is a BBC sports anchor – and has a long standing passion for Union. Sometimes he gets it wrong but a lot of the time he is spot on. It’s a shame ITV got the world cup as John is a class apart from their anchor so far. In actual fact Invers is down there anyway doing BBC TV and Radio pieces so you might catch him on world service.

quote: Or, at least, extra linesmen.

Or at least linesmen prepared to do something?

Interesting about the League and AFL. And to see Horse’s comments - strangely Robert Jones (Remember him? Farr-Jones will!) was on Radio 5 this morning saying Melbourne certainly doesn’t have RWC fever – but he moved to Canberra a few days back and that certainly does.

quote: Obviously fitness levels had a deal to do with it, but it frequently resembled - relatively speaking - a patchy club game.

It’s often better to leave the rose tinted nostalgia glasses on I think. The game has changed beyond all recognition.

	16-10-2003 14:10									#490
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Saw the highlights for USA-Fiji last night.
Darnit. Would've loved to have seen the whole thing.
There was an interview with the American captain (?) a few nights ago in which he revealed their goal in the tournament being winning a match. Nice, straightforward and to the point. Realistic without the 'usual' American arrogance and furthermore acknowledging that they still have a lot to learn (I'm tempted to add the comment "as do all of the NH teams but I won't. ).
And they came sooo close ...

quote: Originally posted by Tamerlin On the other side, if England does not make some kiwi juice out of those All Blacks, the French custom officers won't allow you to even think about entering the French territory.

I'm tempted to throw in a or two but its almost dinner time. I'm off to get a burger and fren ..., erm, 'freedom fries'.

	16-10-2003 14:30									#491
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quote: Pretty much. It was a blip, but it wasn't a game either.

It was a Test match. Like the one the previous November. And that is all that matters at the end of the day. But you are right – I have no great desire to discuss it any further. Mianly because I’m warming up my own potential excuses for this tournament.

quote: They were toilet for years and years and only since they went pro fairly recently have managed to pull a decent team together.

I’ve highlighted the same thing myself – though I may have avoided the word toilet

But even that amateur era had cycles – you only have to look at the five nations tables for proof of that. The modern cycle first started with Carling getting the skippers armband and really took off in 95 as we went Pro. At some point, no doubt when the old lads retire, our consistency will plummet – but it will at some point recover. Certainly we should stay more competitive more consistently in future.

The amusing aspect for me is your seeming assumption that NZ can automatically expect to be on top of the world forever and ever (amen?). Sport is not like that. If you want proof look at Soccer here – it’s every bit the religion Rugger is in NZ, participation is huge, but do we sit on top of the world in it – hardly.

quote: England has a team playing classical traditional rugby - the same old formula used from day dot – and that is as I mentioned earlier, a game based on patience, control, tight defence, and percentages.

When did you last watch them again? This describes perfectly the team from four years ago – but this team can mix it’s game.

quote: So the Saffees appear to be innocent on that one..

Is Caligastia convinced of that?

It remains one of the biggest upsets I can remember in the sport.

quote: I didn’t know she married an Aussie

Endeared herself to a generation of Brits in 91 when, after NZ went out, she switched support to Aussie for exactly this reason. Real popular she was. Now where’s that sarcasm smilie?

	16-10-2003 15:39									#492
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[QUOTE] Originally posted by finbar


Six people over for dinner tonight. Goats Cheese & Caramelised Onion Tart, Baby Rack of Lamb with a Garlic Flan & Flagelots for the carnivores, Roasted Salmon with the same sides for the vegies. Homemade Honey Ice Cream sandwiched between Homemade Waffle Biscuits with Raspberry Coulis for pud. I'm not only as full as a goog, I missed all tonight's matches! Now I'll have to sit up all night watching the replays!



Dinner sounds good-

	16-10-2003 15:51									#493
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quote: Originally posted by finbar A similar thing's happening in Tassie with the one match down there. Namibia -v- Romania at Launceston. Only I think they've organised it on birthdays - if your birthday is an even number, you support one team; odd number, the other.

Perhaps am I an old stubborn European but I can't help laughing at the ridiculous idea of supporting a randomly chosen team because I am told to. This is the ultimate decadence of organized leisures. :

	16-10-2003 15:57									#494
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quote: Originally posted by Andydog I suppose it is. How do you explain the English cycle then? They were toilet for years and years and only since they went pro fairly recently have managed to pull a decent team together.

England was not a bad team, we Europeans simply had a few years of delay because the SH teams were already professional teams well before the IRB authorized it. We have struggled to come back for a few years but it seems that England has catched up with the SH while France is ever on the verge to catch up.

	16-10-2003 15:58									#495
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I am unable to go to AB games in melbourne due to timing and work etc so thought i might go to an AB training session.On enquiry found that all training sessions are closed to public due to player and tactics privacy issues(Sth African spies mentioned).Not real happy with this so sent email to AB communications officer-very helpful chap.He advised that 4 AB players were signing autographs at melbourne sports store today and invited me to bring 11year old daughter(Joe Rokocoko fan) and she would be looked after. Daughter now very happy with autographed T shirt and poster and she got to meet Rokocoko and has photos with him. Most impressed with time he took to help out-not always found in large organisations.

	16-10-2003 16:08									#496
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quote: Originally posted by ravagon I'm tempted to throw in a or two but its almost dinner time. I'm off to get a burger and fren ..., erm, 'freedom fries'.

If "Freedomland" inhabitants were someday as stupid as some "Burgerland" or "Kangarooland" nationals and would rename some foods in order to display their disapproval about a given country, I must admit we would have some troubles to rename anything from "Kangarooland" as this country does not seem to export anything valuable as far as food is concerned.

	16-10-2003 16:18									#497
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quote: Originally posted by finbar Six people over for dinner tonight. Goats Cheese & Caramelised Onion Tart, Baby Rack of Lamb with a Garlic Flan & Flagelots for the carnivores, Roasted Salmon with the same sides for the vegies. Homemade Honey Ice Cream sandwiched between Homemade Waffle Biscuits with Raspberry Coulis for pud.

I have a good news, your Political and Cultural Refugee status has been revised, you are now allowed to enter the French territory and stay here as long as you wish.


I have a proposal to make while you are in Toulouse :
You cook, I wash the dishes...

	16-10-2003 16:55									#498
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The other major development down here was the Manager of the Italian team managed to write off the team's brand new car in a head on crash.

	16-10-2003 17:11									#499
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quote: This is the ultimate decadence of organized leisures.

It’s very Australian – it’s the only way to polarise them without Aussies or Pom’s being involved.

quote: while France is ever on the verge to catch up.

France are a good side too – let’s not lose sight of that. They will be a huge hurdle for their semi-final opponents – whether that be England, the Boks or Wales.

Whilst the use of 'toilet' was chosen deliberately and I took it as light heartedly as it was intended he had an underlying point – before Pro Status England teams were not consistently competitive with the ABs. You also had a point in that this was partly because the ABs were blatantly Pro well before the sport was. Reffing has also only become more consistent between hemisphere’s since 95 – though it still bugs me that SH teams insist on SH refs when invited to tour – time the IRB got tough on them with that one and showed who is in charge.

quote: Most impressed with time he took to help out-not always found in large organisations.

That Fijian seems a remarkable man in many ways – good on him. Good on the Comms officer too – whilst our players are on the whole good lads and happy to talk to fans I’ve always been far less impressed with the RFU guys.

Finbar – hold out for a better deal. You know how demanding Tamerlin is about his food.

*EDIT* Okay I need to indulge in a little Tamerlin like spleen venting here.

John Eales, Eddie Jones, Rudi Straeuli (and regrettably Jacques Brunel who should know better) - SHUT YOUR HYPOCRITICAL MOUTHS!

Finbar can find out what the anti-Pom mob has been saying for you - I'm too damn angry

But I will give the last words to Neil Back who said the criticism of England was "borne out of fear" while England forwards coach Andy Robinson insisted that his pack was "very legal".

Bit desperate isn't it Finbar - wheeling out Nobody to help launch yet another SH coaching attack on referees with a view to making life suit only SH sides? It's getting tedious quite frankly. Respect to the ABs for keeping totally out of it.

Where was nobody when the IRB needed pressuring about Bok extreme foul play last November - not subject to an ARU two line whip maybe?

	16-10-2003 18:14									#500
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The Aussies and South Africans a clearly running scared they are ganging up on England now

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/rug...cup/3196716.stm

	16-10-2003 18:19									#501
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quote: Originally posted by Havak Interesting about the League and AFL. And to see Horse’s comments - strangely Robert Jones (Remember him? Farr-Jones will!) was on Radio 5 this morning saying Melbourne certainly doesn’t have RWC fever – but he moved to Canberra a few days back and that certainly does.

Melbourne won't have RWC fever, but they'll go to the matches. I saw quite a reasonable crowd under the roof the other day. Or night. I've watched so many matches, I've forgotten whether it's day or night.

quote: It’s often better to leave the rose tinted nostalgia glasses on I think. The game has changed beyond all recognition.

Indeed it has. The Lions lock and the Wallaby openside were throwing the ball into their respective lineouts.

	16-10-2003 18:20									#502
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New thread

	16-10-2003 18:21									#503
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quote: Originally posted by TheStinger The Aussies and South Africans a clearly running scared they are ganging up on England now

As we say in France: "C'est l'hôpital qui se moque de la charité" ("it is hospital making fun of charity")...

	16-10-2003 18:22									#504
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quote: Originally posted by Tamerlin Perhaps am I an old stubborn European but I can't help laughing at the ridiculous idea of supporting a randomly chosen team because I am told to. This is the ultimate decadence of organized leisures. :

It's drumming up support for a game that's totally foreign to the locals. Tasmania is an out-and-out Australian Rules Football state.

Oh, and to get an accurate crowd figure in Tasmania, they'll count the heads and divide by two.

	16-10-2003 18:24									#505
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quote: Originally posted by Tamerlin I have a good news, your Political and Cultural Refugee status has been revised, you are now allowed to enter the French territory and stay here as long as you wish. I have a proposal to make while you are in Toulouse : You cook, I wash the dishes...

	16-10-2003 18:35									#506
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quote: Originally posted by Havak ...(and regrettably Jacques Brunel who should know better)...

I don't understand why he has joined the fray... the said illegal tactic, and it is certainly not an illegal one, is a common occurence in the French and English championships where mauls are still in use.

	16-10-2003 18:43									#507
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Hey! Why are you posting in the old thread?!

	16-10-2003 18:57									#508
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Bloody French sense of contradiction!