17-09-2003 03:30									#31
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quote: And I prefer my Dell laptop over Apple.

You know that Dell has moved its customer service department to India. I hope you enjoy talking to people who can hardly speak english.

	17-09-2003 03:32									#32
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quote: I'm pretty sure that from what he wrote, it's an IBM Thinkpad, LoA .

Which series?

	17-09-2003 03:41									#33
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quote: You know that Dell has moved its customer service department to India. I hope you enjoy talking to people who can hardly speak english.

I don't mind. I can understand the accent perfectly... and most people don't have an accent (such as the lady I spoke to when I called to cancel AOL).

	17-09-2003 03:51									#34
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quote: Originally posted by Asher Please -- the only stuff you believe is the crap from Apple. You look at the official SPEC benchmarks, the IBM benchmarks, the NASA benchmarks -- the G5 is slower than the Pentium 4 and Athlon XP, not to mention the Athlon 64 and Pentium 5.

:what Lawrence said:

Just shows you have no credibility on this issue. Enjoy your cheap, slow computer.

	17-09-2003 04:01									#35
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I always hear from the Macheads that Mac processors are faster, but I never see any proof from unbiased sources. Asher posts all these charts and stuff from places like NASA and stuff all the time.

So until I see proof, I'll go with what Asher has posted.

	17-09-2003 04:36									#36
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quote: Originally posted by Lawrence of Arabia Which laptop do you have Asher? Sony Viao?

IBM ThinkPad T40

A far better laptop in every department than the old and new PowerBooks, and it's been out since March 2003...

Smaller, lighter, faster, more feature-rich, far better warranty protection, way more durable.

	17-09-2003 04:37									#37
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quote: Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui I always hear from the Macheads that Mac processors are faster, but I never see any proof from unbiased sources. Asher posts all these charts and stuff from places like NASA and stuff all the time. So until I see proof, I'll go with what Asher has posted.

You always hear from the Macheads? I said that the high end Pentium is faster than the G4. That is generally acknowleged, but then again Apple is phasing out the G4 in its pro computers.

I don't think Apple disputes that Intel is faster for that particular operation; they leave out others at which the G5 is superior as LOA pointed out.

SPEC tests in general are rigged and aren't as much use as real life application performance. That was basically the upshot of the furore surrounding the G5 benchmarks a couple of months back.

Anyway, when your computer can do this give me a call.

	17-09-2003 04:40									#38
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BTW the picture doesn't really do justice to the fact that each of those smaller windows is a miniature version of a full size window that gently reduced to what you see here so that you could see all open windows. I wish I had an mpeg of it, it is really impressive: although this is clearly an overkill situation.

	17-09-2003 04:42									#39
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quote: Originally posted by Asher Smaller, lighter, faster, more feature-rich, far better warranty protection, way more durable.

But it runs a shitty, user unfriendly, ugly-looking, crash happy, OS that you have to patch two or three times a day.

	17-09-2003 04:44									#40
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quote: Originally posted by Lawrence of Arabia I'm only asking because I'm interested in what sort of monitor you have. If its a tiny 10 incher or a larger 15 inch. If it has internal DVD and CD player and DVD and CD burner. If it has FireWire 800 or FireWire 400. If it has bluetooth. If its got a backlit keyboard, 80 GB of harddrive, 512 RAM which can be expanded to 2 GBs, all of it internal.

It's "only" a 14.1" display, but it's 1400x1050, which is a far higher resolution than the PowerBooks support.

It has an internal DVD/CD-RW combo (no DVD-R, but that's easily fixed if I ever want to by replacing my UltraBay Slim port). The UltraBay Slim port is 9.5mm tall, the smallest in the industry.

No FireWire 800 or 400, because those are totally useless in the PC world. USB 2.0 instead.

The design for the backlight on the PowerBooks is stupid from a functionality standpoint. It's a total battery killer, it looks like crap after a month or so of use because of all of the hair/dust/etc that accumulates between the keys. My Laptop has something called the "ThinkLight" which is a miniature light attached to the top of the screen which illuminates the keyboard in low-light situations. A far more elegant, and functional, solution that is far easier on your batteries. Although it doesn't have the "wow that's nifty" (initial) effect of the PowerBook's, admittedly.

And it's got 768MB DDR RAM right now, expandable to 2GB. But it's also 2 CAS (how many cycles it takes to access the columns in the RAM), rather than the 3 CAS crap they put in PowerBooks or 2.5 in the PowerMacs.

It's also got 1MB of L2 cache, way faster CPU, way longer battery life, more upgradability (can you simply swap an internal mini-PCI card to upgrade your internal wireless card at any time?), diversity antennas, made out of titanium instead of aluminum, smaller, lighter, shock-absorbed harddrive, etc.

	17-09-2003 04:45									#41
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quote: Originally posted by Agathon But it runs a shitty, user unfriendly, ugly-looking, crash happy, OS that you have to patch two or three times a day.

I think the idiocy of this comment speaks not only for your judgement with computers and operating systems, but for the computers and operating systems you promote.

Congratulations of reaching the level of a 6 year old boy arguing over which Power Ranger is better.

	17-09-2003 04:48									#42
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quote: Originally posted by Lawrence of Arabia Which means its possible that the G5 is faster then what they found.

It means it's faster than the G4, which isn't a surprise whatsoever. Pentium IIIs were faster than the G4 in most cases.

quote: This test tested scalar floating point comparisons

Which is a PLUS for the G5 -- the G5's strongpoint is floating point. Even in Apple's own tests they published, the P4 is faster in integer operations.

quote: and does not test vector floating point.

It doesn't test vector floating point because the G5's vector floating point allows only 32-bit numbers, which are not of high enough precision for these types of operations.

That's why SSE2 is better than AltiVec, it can do 32-bit OR 64-bit floats in SIMD instead of just 32-bit like the G4/G5.

	17-09-2003 04:48									#43
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quote: Originally posted by Asher It's "only" a 14.1" display, but it's 1400x1050, which is a far higher resolution than the PowerBooks support. It has an internal DVD/CD-RW combo (no DVD-R, but that's easily fixed if I ever want to by replacing my UltraBay Slim port). The UltraBay Slim port is 9.5mm tall, the smallest in the industry. No FireWire 800 or 400, because those are totally useless in the PC world. USB 2.0 instead. The design for the backlight on the PowerBooks is stupid from a functionality standpoint. It's a total battery killer, it looks like crap after a month or so of use because of all of the hair/dust/etc that accumulates between the keys. My Laptop has something called the "ThinkLight" which is a miniature light attached to the top of the screen which illuminates the keyboard in low-light situations. A far more elegant, and functional, solution that is far easier on your batteries. Although it doesn't have the "wow that's nifty" (initial) effect of the PowerBook's, admittedly. And it's got 768MB DDR RAM right now, expandable to 2GB. But it's also 2 CAS (how many cycles it takes to access the columns in the RAM), rather than the 3 CAS crap they put in PowerBooks or 2.5 in the PowerMacs. It's also got 1MB of L2 cache, way faster CPU, way longer battery life, more upgradability (can you simply swap an internal mini-PCI card to upgrade your internal wireless card at any time?), diversity antennas, made out of titanium instead of aluminum, smaller, lighter, shock-absorbed harddrive, etc.

But it runs a shitty, user unfriendly, ugly-looking, crash happy, OS that you have to patch two or three times a day.

Nuff said.

	17-09-2003 04:50									#44
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That is so sad of you in so many ways, Agathon.

I take that as an obvious victory for myself, you've not only retreated to idiotic rhetoric, you've done it twice in a row and started with the "LOL" smilies.

	17-09-2003 04:54									#45
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How many hours of real-world battery life do the new PowerBooks get? That's my #1 concern, and the 7 hours real-world the T40 gets per battery was what sold me.

	17-09-2003 04:55									#46
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quote: Originally posted by Asher That is so sad of you in so many ways, Agathon. I take that as an obvious victory for myself, you've not only retreated to idiotic rhetoric, you've done it twice in a row and started with the "LOL" smilies.

Where's the rhetoric? Don't you understand the meaning of that word? That was a simple statement of fact.

Now go away...

	17-09-2003 04:55									#47
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quote: Originally posted by Agathon :what Lawrence said: Just shows you have no credibility on this issue. Enjoy your cheap, slow computer.

I just wanted to quote this to preserve the beautiful irony. =)

	17-09-2003 04:56									#48
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quote: Originally posted by Agathon Where's the rhetoric? Don't you understand the meaning of that word? That was a simple statement of fact. Now go away...

I realize you're mad at me for crashing your party and bringing reality to your "Reality Distortion Field" that Macheads so often have, but there's no need to be stupid Agathon.

	17-09-2003 04:58									#49
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quote: Originally posted by Asher How many hours of real-world battery life do the new PowerBooks get? That's my #1 concern, and the 7 hours real-world the T40 gets per battery was what sold me.

Frankly, I don't give a **** because I'm not some hopeless loser who gets off by spending his life looking up technical minutiae, or who has to resort to insulting other posters' families when they don't get their own way.

	17-09-2003 05:01									#50
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Is it just me or are you in quicksand?

And I hardly think battery life in a laptop is "technical minutiae".

As for the "insult other posters' families" bit -- JohnT insulted me and my SO by saying that kids our age will "f*ck anything". There is a clear and obvious implication of low standards. I responded in kind by saying at least kids our age don't have saggy breasts (with a wink), and he started bawling.

Boohoo, you insult me and my SO and I'll do the same.

It's not my fault you and JohnT are both incapable of understanding the apparent complexities of the exchange, but the mods certainly did.

Now there is the possibility of JohnT not meaning what was directly implied, but then it's his stupidity that's the problem and not mine.

	17-09-2003 05:22									#51
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quote: IBM ThinkPad T40 A far better laptop in every department than the old and new PowerBooks, and it's been out since March 2003... Smaller, lighter, faster, more feature-rich, far better warranty protection, way more durable.

Alrighty then. Lets have a look at the features on both Asher's computer, and the new 15 inch Powerbook G4


IBM: 1.40 Ghz Processor
G4: 1.25 Ghz

IBM: 256 RAM
G4: 512 RAM

IBM: 40 GB HD
G4: 80 GB HD

IBM: Intel/Pro Wireless Network Connection
G4: Airport

IBM: 4.5 Ibs
G4: 5.6 Ilbs

IBM: IBM embedded security
G4: none

IBM: 32 MB ATI Mobility RADEON 9000
G4: 64 MB ATI Mobility RADEON 9600

IBM: 14.1'' Display
G4: 15.2'' Display

IBM: Cd-RW DVD
G4: CD-RW, DVD-R

The price for the IBM is $1,949
The price for the G4 is $2,599

If we add 256 RAM to the IBM, to get a total of 512 RAM, the price is at $2,039

For the final comparison, Asher will need to tell us how many USB he has.

G4: 2 USB ports, 1 FireWire 400, 1 FireWire 800, bluetooth, DVI

	17-09-2003 05:44									#52
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quote: Originally posted by Lawrence of Arabia Alrighty then. Lets have a look at the features on both Asher's computer, and the new 15 inch Powerbook G4

You're comparing a different model than what I have.

I'll post corrections and add more detail.

IBM: 1.50 GHz, 1MB L2 cache
G4: 1.25 GHz, 512KB L2 cache

IBM: 400MHz system bus
G4: 133MHz system bus

IBM: 768MB RAM, CAS 2 latency
G4: 512MB RAM, CAS 3 latency

IBM: 60 GB HD, 8MB cache, 5400 rpm
G4: 80 GB HD, 2MB cache, 4500 rpm (not a typo)

IBM: Intel/Pro Wireless Network Connection
G4: Airport

IBM: 4.5 Ibs
G4: 5.6 Ilbs

IBM: IBM Embedded Security 2.0
G4: none

IBM: 64 MB ATI Mobility RADEON 9000
G4: 64 MB ATI Mobility RADEON 9600

IBM: 14.1'' Display, 1400x1050
G4: 15.2'' Display, 1280x864

IBM: CD-RW DVD
G4: CD-RW, DVD-R

IBM: 1 infrared port
G4: No infrared port

IBM: Dual diversity antennas with per-packet selection
G4: 1 antenna

IBM: Titanium casing
G4: Aluminum casing

IBM: Uncoditional loss, theft, accidental breakage warranty (6 months free, $100/6 months after).
G4: No comparable

IBM: 3 year warranty standard
G4: ?

IBM: Shock absorber for the harddrive
G4: None

IBM: 7 hours real world battery life
G4: 3-4 hours?

IBM: User-upgradable mini-PCI slot for wireless (using external antennas), for upcoming 802.11i support or other future standards
G4: No internal wireless upgrades

IBM: 2 PCMCIA Type I, II, III slots
G4: ?

quote: G4: 2 USB ports, 1 FireWire 400, 1 FireWire 800, bluetooth, DVI

2 USB 2.0 ports, FireWire are optional PCMCIA additions that I have no interest in, S-Video out, VGA out, gigabit ethernet, v.92 56K, parallel port.

	17-09-2003 06:24									#53
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quote: Congratulations of reaching the level of a 6 year old boy arguing over which Power Ranger is better.

It's obviously the Red Power Ranger. However, with as low of standards as you have, you might end up ****ing the Blue Power Ranger...

	17-09-2003 06:28									#54
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Just a question:

Would it be beneficial to Apple to give up its fascism and let other companies develop machines that can run Mac OSes?

	17-09-2003 08:10									#55
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quote: Originally posted by Jack_www Processor Mobile Intel® Pentium® 4 Processor 3.06GHz

This thing eats power like there's no tomorrow.

	17-09-2003 08:12									#56
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quote: Originally posted by Lawrence of Arabia You know that Dell has moved its customer service department to India. I hope you enjoy talking to people who can hardly speak english.

Believe it or not, Indians working in call centres are at least middle class, and they all receive special training in English to sound like a middle class anglo-saxon.

	17-09-2003 10:52									#57
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quote: Originally posted by mrmitchell Just a question: Would it be beneficial to Apple to give up its fascism and let other companies develop machines that can run Mac OSes?

They did in the mid nineties, but it nearly put the company out of business which would have put the clone makers out too (no Apple to write the software). It's pretty well established that a competitive market for Apple clone systems will fail quickly, which shows up the moronic claims of one Apolytoner, that Apple is a bad monopoly, for the ill-informed rubbish they are.

	17-09-2003 10:53									#58
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quote: Originally posted by Urban Ranger Believe it or not, Indians working in call centres are at least middle class, and they all receive special training in English to sound like a middle class anglo-saxon.

My wife has to deal with them. The training doesn't work.

	17-09-2003 11:08									#59
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quote: Originally posted by Asher I think the idiocy of this comment speaks not only for your judgement with computers and operating systems, but for the computers and operating systems you promote. Congratulations of reaching the level of a 6 year old boy arguing over which Power Ranger is better.

Just shows that you don't understand simple points that are put to you.

I'm not arguing over which power ranger is better; my position is much more analgous to someone who says that Beethoven is better than Britney Spears.

And for the umpteenth time. People generally buy Apple Computers because they want to use Apple software. Why? Because it's better looking, better designed and doesn't present the headaches that Microsoft software does. Windows is the Skoda of OSes.

I don't know how many times people have said this to you....

	17-09-2003 11:09									#60
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quote: Originally posted by Agathon They did in the mid nineties, but it nearly put the company out of business which would have put the clone makers out too (no Apple to write the software). It's pretty well established that a competitive market for Apple clone systems will fail quickly, which shows up the moronic claims of one Apolytoner, that Apple is a bad monopoly, for the ill-informed rubbish they are.

Who claims Apple is a bad monopoly?

If this is a reference to me, I never said that.

The fact that a competitive market put Apple nearly out of business shows just how poorly that company is run, it needs a monopoly to survive because of their collective stupidity.