16-09-2003 22:52									#1
	New Apple Computer Released Today Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

They upgraded the 15 inch powerbobok combo drive to:

15.2-inch TFT Display
1280x854 resolution
1GHz PowerPC G4
512K L2 cache
256MB DDR333 SDRAM
60GB Ultra ATA/100
ATI Mobility Radeon
9600 (64MB DDR)
Full size keyboard
Gigabit Ethernet
FireWire 400 & 800
AirPort Extreme Ready
DVI & S-Video out

The price remained the same at $1999

The superdrive 15 inch powerbook also got upgraded to:

15.2-inch TFT Display
1280x854 resolution
1.25GHz PowerPC G4
512K L2 cache
512MB DDR333 SDRAM
80GB Ultra ATA/100
ATI Mobility Radeon
9600 (64MB DDR)
Backlit keyboard
Gigabit Ethernet
FireWire 400 & 800
AirPort Extreme built-in
DVI & S-Video out

The price remains the same at $2599

Im getting this superdrive 15 inch powerbook including 3 year apple care, a total value of around $3,000 for $2,199. Damn what a steal.

	16-09-2003 23:08									#2
	Re: New Apple Computer Released Today Got spare money?

quote: Originally posted by Lawrence of Arabia They upgraded the 15 inch powerbobok combo drive to: ... The price remained the same at $1999 The superdrive 15 inch powerbook also got upgraded to: ... The price remains the same at $2599 Im getting this superdrive 15 inch powerbook including 3 year apple care, a total value of around $3,000 for $2,199. Damn what a steal.

Still more then you would pay for a pc lap top.

	16-09-2003 23:25									#3
	Put an end to popups!

quote: Still more then you would pay for a pc lap top.

Well then lets compare. Which PC laptop?

	16-09-2003 23:27									#4
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

quote: Originally posted by Lawrence of Arabia Well then lets compare. Which PC laptop?

You can get a top of the line PC lap top for 2500 dollars with 3.0 ghz processor and if you get it at gate way it includes 3 year warenty and case for the lap top.

	16-09-2003 23:31									#5
	Increase the size of your Attachments

I found this PC note book from Gateway for $2150.00


Gateway® M350XL:

Technical Specifications

Processor
Mobile Intel® Pentium® 4 Processor 3.06GHz

Memory
512MB DDR SDRAM

Storage5
40GB Ultra ATA Hard Drive

Media Drives
Integrated 6 in 1 memory card reader
Integrated DVD-R/-RW/CD-RW Recorder

Graphics & Monitor
15" SXGA+ TFT active matrix
Integrated Intel® graphics with dynamic video memory technology

Audio & Speakers
Integrated sound and stereo speakers, headphone/speaker jack, and mic jacks
External speakers not selected

Power
Primary high-capacity lithium ion battery with AC pack and 1 yr. limited battery warranty

Carrying Case
Not Selected

Modem
Integrated V.92 56K Modem4
Want a free cable modem?

Networking
Integrated Intel® 10/100 Ethernet Adapter
Integrated 802.11g wireless networking card

Keyboard & Mouse
Full-Sized Keyboard and EZ Pad® Pointing Device

Internet Service Provider
Six months America Online® Internet access
(additional phone charges may apply) more info

Extended Service Plan
Value Service Plan-1Yr Parts/Labor/No Onsite/1 Yr Technical Support1

	16-09-2003 23:32									#6
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

Here is link:
http://www.gateway.com/home/prod/hm...roddetail.shtml

	16-09-2003 23:34									#7
	Re: Re: New Apple Computer Released Today Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

quote: Originally posted by Jack_www Still more then you would pay for a pc lap top.

Not only that but you get more software support with a pc laptop.

	16-09-2003 23:36									#8
	Inflate your Upload Space

Does the price of the Windows Laptop include cost of the hours you must spend downloading and installing patch after patch after patch....

	16-09-2003 23:41									#9
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

Here is a dell The InspironTM 8500 for around 2,000 dollar, it can be as low as 1350 depending on what features you pick.

http://www.dell.com/us/en/dhs/produ...8500.htm#tabtop

	16-09-2003 23:43									#10
	Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

Well its pretty close.

Apple has backlit keyboard and 40 GB more of HD, two extra years of warrantee, and I don't see any equivilant of FireWire on the PC. The PC comes with 6 months of AOL (i dont know if this is a plus )

	16-09-2003 23:43									#11
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

quote: Originally posted by Agathon Does the price of the Windows Laptop include cost of the hours you must spend downloading and installing patch after patch after patch....

If you have dsl or cabel it is not a problem. You have to download patchs for Macs too. It is not that big of a deal. My Win98 computer is working fine after years of use and have not had any major problems with it.

	16-09-2003 23:44									#12
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

Also on the Gateway, what is the material it is made out of, and what is its weight.

	16-09-2003 23:44									#13
	Suffering from ads?

quote: Originally posted by Lawrence of Arabia Well its pretty close. Apple has backlit keyboard and 40 GB more of HD, two extra years of warrantee, and I don't see any equivilant of FireWire on the PC. The PC comes with 6 months of AOL (i dont know if this is a plus )

BUt the PC is twice as fast as the apple processors, and you can get way more software on a pc.

	16-09-2003 23:49									#14
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

quote: Originally posted by Lawrence of Arabia Also on the Gateway, what is the material it is made out of, and what is its weight.

The one (M350) he linked to weighs 7.3-7.5 lbs.

	16-09-2003 23:50									#15
	Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

quote: Originally posted by Jack_www BUt the PC is twice as fast as the apple processors, and you can get way more software on a pc.

No - the PC has double the Ghz rating, that doesn't mean it is twice as fast. My lowly imac is faster than intels with twice its clockspeed. After all a 2 Ghz G5 will smoke any Pentium.

You can get more software for a PC, but you can run Windows on a mac using virtual PC (now from MS!) anyway.

	16-09-2003 23:53									#16
	Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

quote: Originally posted by Agathon No - the PC has double the Ghz rating, that doesn't mean it is twice as fast. My lowly imac is faster than intels with twice its clockspeed. After all a 2 Ghz G5 will smoke any Pentium. You can get more software for a PC, but you can run Windows on a mac using virtual PC (now from MS!) anyway.

Sure it does. I use to buy into that a long time ago when I had a mac. I like macs but they are more expensive then a pc, slower, and have less software then a pc. Also most computer users use Windows.

When you run virtual PC, the programs run slower then on a PC, and you are paying for two operating systems when you can get a PC and just pay for one.

	16-09-2003 23:55									#17
	Put an end to popups!

Also Asher has posted many threads showing that Macs are indeed slower then PC computers.

	16-09-2003 23:55									#18
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

On the dell, I went to the customize page and added until I could get as close as I could to the apple. I also added digital and music software (which is free with an apple)

its monitor is 0.2 inches larger, and the waranttee is longer.

The apple's DDR is faster

When I finished, the PC was at $2447.

http://configure.us.dell.com/dellst...oc=8500CS&s=dhs

	16-09-2003 23:58									#19
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

quote: BUt the PC is twice as fast as the apple processors, and you can get way more software on a pc.

Its twice as fast, but the G4's processor has a larger L2 cache and twice the bandwith. Just image two firehoses. If one is larger then the other by a factor of two, it only needs half the pressure then the smaller one to get the same amount of water out.

	16-09-2003 23:58									#20
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

quote: Originally posted by Lawrence of Arabia On the dell, I went to the customize page and added until I could get as close as I could to the apple. I also added digital and music software (which is free with an apple) its monitor is 0.2 inches larger, and the waranttee is longer. The apple's DDR is faster When I finished, the PC was at $2447. http://configure.us.dell.com/dellst...oc=8500CS&s=dhs

When I clicked on the link it does not show what you did. It is on the defalt specs.

	16-09-2003 23:59									#21
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

and btw, the only area in software that macs lag in is games. Microsoft, Adobe, all make apple versions of their software

	17-09-2003 00:01									#22
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

Inspiron 8500  Help Me Choose
Learn more about processor performance
  Mobile Pentium®4 Processor,2.6 GHz,15.4 WXGA [add $250 or $8/month1]
  Mobile Pentium®4 Processor,2.6 GHz,15.4 WSXGA+ [add $300 or $9/month1]
  Mobile Pentium® 4 Processor,2.6GHz,15.4 WUXGA [add $400 or $12/month1] This option may delay your ship date.
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  Mobile Pentium®4 Processor,2.5 GHz,15.4 WSXGA+ [add $100 or $3/month1]
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  Mobile Pentium® 4 Processor,2.4GHz,15.4 WUXGA [add $100 or $3/month1] This option may delay your ship date.
  Mobile Pentium® 4 Processor,2.4GHz,15.4 WSXGA+
  Mobile Pentium® 4 Processor,2.4GHz,15.4 WXGA [subtract $50]
  Mobile Pentium® 4 Processor,2.2GHz,15.4 WUXGA [add $50 or $2/month1] Dell Recommended This option may delay your ship date.
  Mobile Pentium® 4 Processor,2.2GHz,15.4 WSXGA+ [subtract $50]
  Mobile Pentium® 4 Processor,2.2GHz,15.4 WXGA [subtract $100] Operating Systems  Help Me Choose

Dell PCs use genuine Microsoft® Windows®4
www.microsoft.com/piracy/howtotell
Windows® XP Home Edition is a consumer operating system and does not support peer to peer networking of more than five computers or advanced networking such as domain authentication.
  Microsoft® Windows® XP Home Edition
  Microsoft® Windows® XP Professional12, [add $79 or $3/month1]
  Microsoft® Windows® XP Home Edition w/ Microsoft® Plus! [add $20 or $0.75/month1]
  Microsoft® Windows® XP Pro Edition w/ Microsoft® Plus! [add $99 or $3/month1] Memory  Help Me Choose

512MB 1 DIMM module provides great performance value today while leaving you a free memory slot to meet future memory needs and providing additional investment protection.
  256MB,DDR,266MHz,2 Dimms [subtract $125]
  FREE UPGRADE! 256MB,266MHz,DDR,1DIMM (from 256MB,266MHz,2DIMM) [subtract $125]
  FREE UPGRADE! 384MB,266MHz,2DIMM (from 256MB, 266MHz, 2DIMM) [subtract $125]
  FREE UPGRADE! 512MB,266MHz,2DIMM (from 256MB, 266MHz, 2DIMM) [subtract $125]
  SAVE $125! (Savings included in price) 512MB,266MHz,DDR, 1DIMM  Great Upgrade
  SAVE $125! (Savings included in price) 640MB,266MHz,DDR,2DIMM [add $100 or $3/month1]
  SAVE $125! (Savings included in price) 768MB,266MHz,DDR,2DIMM [add $200 or $6/month1]
  SAVE $125! (Savings included in price) 1GB,266MHz,DDR,2DIMM [add $350 or $11/month1]
  SAVE $125! (Savings included in price) 1.5GB,266MHz,DDR,2DIMM [add $950 or $29/month1]
  SAVE $125! (Savings included in price) 2GB,266MHz,DDR,2DIMM [add $2,150 or $65/month1] Video Card  Help Me Choose
 
32MB DDR ATI MOBILITY™ RADEON™ 9000 4x AGP 3D Video
  64MB DDR NVIDIA® GeForce™ 4 4200 Go AGP 4X Graphics [add $79 or $3/month1] Modular Internal CD/DVD Drives  Help Me

Choose
  8X Max DVD ROM [subtract $229]
  24X CD-RW/DVD Combo Drive [subtract $180]
  4x CD/DVD burner (DVD+RW/+R)  Hard Drives  Help Me

Choose
  30GB Ultra ATA Hard Drive [subtract $159]
  FREE 40GB Ultra ATA Hard Drive Upgrade! [subtract $159]
  FREE 60GB Ultra ATA Hard Drive Upgrade! [subtract $159] Great
Upgrade
  SAVE $60! (Savings included in price) 80GB Ultra ATA Hard Drive  

Primary Battery  Help Me Choose
  72 WHr Primary Battery  Additional Battery  Help Me Choose
 
None
  48WHr Additional Battery for Modular Bay [add $129 or $4/month1] Enhanced Productivity
  72 WHr Primary Spare Battery [add $99 or $3/month1]Internet/Networking Options
 
High Speed Internet Access  Help Me Choose
Hi-Speed Internet Starting at $29.95/month (where available) + $75 Dell Rebate! When you buy high-speed Internet from Dell Home Systems. Order now, or register after your complete your PC purchase. Note: orders for high-speed Internet access are billed separately from system orders.
  Find a high speed Internet service provider in your area  See

Details Dial-Up Internet Access  Help Me Choose
6 Months of AOL or Earthlink dial-up Internet access is included with your PC purchase at no charge to you! Everything you need to get connected to the Web via dial-up is already included on your system - just register and start surfing!
  6 Months of America Online Membership Included
  6 Months of Earthlink Internet Access  Integrated Nic And Modem  Help Me Choose

Integrated 10/100 Network Card and Modem Wireless

Networking Options
 
Wireless Networking Cards  Help Me Choose
Use an internal wireless networking card to connect your home PCs to the internet wirelessly. Also requires a wireless base station and a separate high-speed modem provided by your internet service provider.
  No Wireless LAN Card [subtract $69]
  Dell TrueMobile™ 1300 WLAN (802.11b/g, 54Mbps) miniPCI Card [subtract $20]
  Dell TrueMobile™1400 DualBand WLAN (802.11a/b/g, 54Mbps) miniPCI Card  Wireless Broadband Router  Help Me Choose

Dell wireless networking products support most cable and DSL modems, however some broadband carriers may not be compatible with the Wireless Broadband Router. Dial up modems are not supported. Minimum system requirements apply. Please see "help me choose" to verify your existing system is compatible.
  Dell TrueMobile 2300 (802.11b/g) Wireless Router with 1Yr Adv Exchange [$89 or $3/month1]
  Dell TrueMobile 2300 (802.11b/g) Wireless Router with 3Yr Adv Exchange [$109 or $4/month1] 

Wireless Personal Networking Card  Help Me Choose
  None
  Dell™ TrueMobile™ 300 Bluetooth Internal Card [add $49 or $2/month1] Wireless Home Network Installation  Help Me Choose

Investing in Wireless Home Network Installation7 offered by Dell helps removes confusion and doubt, and gets the setup done right the first time. Requires purchase of Dell TrueMobile router and wireless card/adapter.
  Wireless Network Install, Router+1 Wireless Connection: Regular Hours [$159 or $5/month1] Dell Recommended
  Wireless Network Install, Router+1 Wireless Connection: Evening Hours [$179 or $6/month1]
  Wireless Network Install, Router+1 Wireless+1 Wired Connection: Regular Hrs [$189 or $6/month1]
  Wireless Network Install, Router+1 Wireless+1 Wired Connection: Evening Hrs [$209 or $7/month1]Software
 

Productivity Software  Help Me Choose
Dell Customers that purchase Dimension and Inspiron systems with Office XP SBE or PRO after August 28th, 2003 will receive a coupon with the option to Upgrade to comparable versions of Office 2003. The Upgrades will be on sale through Dell's Software and Peripherals website starting on November 1st, 2003 for qualified customers. Please visit the Upgrade website at www.dell.com/us/microsoftcoupon for further information and to read terms and conditions for the Upgrade program.
  WordPerfect®Productivity Pack with Quicken New User Edition [subtract $49]
  Microsoft®Works Suite 2003 with Money 2003 [subtract $30]
  WordPerfect® Office11 (WordPerfect,Quattro pro,Presentations)
  Upgrade to Microsoft®Office XP Professional w/Money 2002 and EducateU [add $300 or $9/month1] Includes Microsoft PowerPoint
  Upgrade to Microsoft® Office Small Business w/ Money 2002 and EducateU [add $80 or $3/month1] Multi-Media Players  Help Me


Choose
Your new Dell PC comes equipped with Windows Media Player 8.0 & RealOne ™ Player. RealOne ™ Player PLUS offers expanded features and benefits like Universal Media Playback & Advanced Video Controls.
  RealOne™ Player, with 14 day SuperPass trial
  RealOne™ Player PLUS, w/Universal Media Playback [add $20 or $0.75/month1] Multi-Media Software  Help Me Choose

Microsoft® Digital Media Edition Plus! Pack is an exciting Photo, Music and Movie Enhancement Pack for Windows XP.
  None [subtract $20]
  Microsoft® Plus! Digital Media Edition  Digital Music  Help Me

Choose
The Dell Jukebox comes on your new Dell PC at no cost to you. When you upgrade to the Dell Jukebox Plus, you get advanced features such as faster ripping of your CD s, faster burning and custom CD label printing.
  Dell Jukebox powered by MUSICMATCH [subtract $20]
  Dell Jukebox Plus powered by MUSICMATCH (60 day trial Radio MX service)  Dell Recommended
  Dell Jukebox Premium powered by MUSICMATCH (90 day trial Radio MX service) [add $40 or $2/month1] Digital Imaging

Software  Help Me Choose

Purchase Image Expert Premium, Paint Shop Pro Edition or the combo and receive coupon(s) for a free upgrade to Photo Album 4.0 and Paint Shop Pro 8.0 when available October 1, 2003. (details on coupon)
  Dell Picture Studio Image Expert Standard [subtract $30]
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Dell Picture Studio, Combo Image Expert Premium and Paint Shop Pro [add $50 or $2/month1] Video Editing  
  None [subtract $49]
  Dell Movie Studio Essentials Other Notebook Options
 
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Dell Recommends the compact, light-weight USB Memory Key for transferring and storing small files.
  Modular Floppy Drive
  16MB USB Memory Key [subtract $39]
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  64MB Dell USB Memory Key [subtract $20] Compact & Light This option may delay your ship date.
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  No Floppy Drive [subtract $59] Additional Hard Drive  Help Me

Choose
  None
  40GB Ultra 2nd ATA Hard Drive for Modular Bay [add $249 or $8/month1] 


The res of the options were selected as non.

Preliminary Ship Date5
9/24/2003
Need it sooner? Inspiron 8500
$2,597
$2,447
[You Save $150]

Last edited by Lawrence of Arabia on 17-09-2003 at 00:17

	17-09-2003 00:14									#23
	Got spare money?

quote: Originally posted by Jack_www Also Asher has posted many threads showing that Macs are indeed slower then PC computers.

No, what Asher has posted is the most prejudiced stuff he can find on the net which shows that Macs are slower, since he has a pathological hatred of non Wintel machines. Even the people whose opinions he posts aren't as extreme as him.

If you want PC vs. Mac stuff don't take his advice: ask someone else on the forum - someone whose prejudices aren't so extreme. Look I like macs but I advise people to use them only if they like the OS - that's the main attraction.

The high end G4s are slower than the high end Pentiums - that is a fact, but the G5 is faster than all of them. It's not all about the processor clock speed though, you'll get nice performance from a Powerbook and it's a lovely machine to look at and to use (esp the 17 inch PB).

	17-09-2003 02:01									#24
	Increase the size of your Attachments

Once Apple can match IBM's unconditoinal loss/theft/accidental breakage overnight-replacement guarantee, let me know.

Also let me know if that PowerBook can hit the 7h per battery mine can.

And the 1.5GHz Pentium Ms run circles around the 1.25 G4s.

No diversity wireless antennas like the IBMs?

And cheapass aluminum casing? Where's the titanium, baby?

And no harddrive shock absorber? Pfft.

Plus it's a good pound heavier than mine.

	17-09-2003 02:04									#25
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

quote: Originally posted by Agathon No, what Asher has posted is the most prejudiced stuff he can find on the net which shows that Macs are slower, since he has a pathological hatred of non Wintel machines. Even the people whose opinions he posts aren't as extreme as him.

Please -- the only stuff you believe is the crap from Apple.

You look at the official SPEC benchmarks, the IBM benchmarks, the NASA benchmarks -- the G5 is slower than the Pentium 4 and Athlon XP, not to mention the Athlon 64 and Pentium 5.

	17-09-2003 02:13									#26
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

I have to dash off to class in a few mins, so this will do for now.

From NASA's benchmarks (that Cloud9 -- a Mac advocate first linked to). I'd like for you to explain to me how NASA is "prejudiced".

http://members.cox.net/craig.hunter/g5/


Here you see a single 2.66GHz P4 (based on an OLD core -- 533MHz system bus instead of 800MHz) edging out a 2GHz G5 system.

	17-09-2003 03:15									#27
	Support Apolyton

quote: Once Apple can match IBM's unconditoinal loss/theft/accidental breakage overnight-replacement guarantee, let me know. Also let me know if that PowerBook can hit the 7h per battery mine can. And the 1.5GHz Pentium Ms run circles around the 1.25 G4s. No diversity wireless antennas like the IBMs? And cheapass aluminum casing? Where's the titanium, baby? And no harddrive shock absorber? Pfft. Plus it's a good pound heavier than mine.

Which laptop do you have Asher? Sony Viao?

	17-09-2003 03:19									#28
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

I'm only asking because I'm interested in what sort of monitor you have. If its a tiny 10 incher or a larger 15 inch. If it has internal DVD and CD player and DVD and CD burner. If it has FireWire 800 or FireWire 400. If it has bluetooth. If its got a backlit keyboard, 80 GB of harddrive, 512 RAM which can be expanded to 2 GBs, all of it internal.

	17-09-2003 03:25									#29
	Full PM-box? Change here!

btw, from that link that Asher supplied

quote: Introduction This paper describes testing conducted by NASA Langley Research Center during an evaluation of a PowerMac G5 system for computational fluid dynamics (CFD) simulation. Preliminary evaluations are conducted in Part I of this two-part document. In this phase of testing, an existing version of the NASA Jet3D [1] code (developed and compiled on G4 systems) was run on a G5 system without any re-compilation or additional optimization. As G5-specific FORTRAN compiler tools have not yet been released, this is both appropriate and a reality. In Part II of this document, G5-specific testing will be conducted as revised compiler tools become available. In addition, testing will be expanded to include other NASA CFD codes.

Which means its possible that the G5 is faster then what they found.

quote: The primary purpose of this test is to determine how G5 performance compares to G4 performance in CFD applications.

quote: Conclusion The primary purpose of this test was to determine how G5 scalar floating point performance compares to G4 performance in CFD applications. As a secondary part of this test, G4 and G5 benchmark results were compared to similar results obtained on Pentium 4 systems. Overall, the scalar floating point performance of G5 systems is much improved over G4 systems due to better per clock cycle efficiency combined with higher clock speeds. Based on preliminary testing with an existing version of Jet3D (not recompiled or optimized for the G5), it appears that the G5 has about 22% better scalar floating point performance per clock cycle than the G4 systems tested and 32% better floating point performance per clock cycle than the P4 systems tested

This test tested scalar floating point comparisons, and does not test vector floating point.

	17-09-2003 03:26									#30
	Increase Your PM Length

I'm pretty sure that from what he wrote, it's an IBM Thinkpad, LoA .

And I prefer my Dell laptop over Apple .