17-09-2003 05:59									#1
	Pentium 4 Extreme Edition announced Increase the size of your Attachments

http://www.anandtech.com/IT/showdoc.html?i=1870

3.2GHz, 512KB L2 cache, 800MHz systembus, and 2MB of on-die L3 cache. This ain't no Apple "L3 cache" bullshit, but the real deal -- same cache used in the Gallatin Xeons.

quote: The 2MB on-die L3 cache takes the Northwood's 55 million transistors and balloons it to an incredible 108 million transistors, which is still less than the Prescott's 125 million transistors. What's important to note here is that although the Prescott has less than half of the cache of this new Pentium 4, it still has more transistors - giving you some insight into how much Intel enhanced the core. We will have some benchmarking time with the Extreme Edition very soon...

Aii. It's an obvious placeholder while Prescott is prepared for October 26th, since Athlon 64s launch September 22nd.

	17-09-2003 06:03									#2
	Full PM-box? Change here!

Is it really named "Extreme"?

Honestly, "Extreme" marketing pushers can shove it. I'm sick and tired of everything from my Jello to my computer being Extreme. Where are all the products branded "Ordinary" or "Sub-par"? Is EVERYTHING extreme? It's a FRIGGING COMPUTER PROCESSOR DAMNIT!!!

Is "extreme" supposed to be related to extreme sports or something? Well, then, I'm sure Extreme skateboarders are soiling their underwear at this Extreme CPU.

Agh...

For the actual processor though? I don't care. Sorry.

	17-09-2003 06:19									#3
	Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

I'd rather see the cache expanded on the L2 side.

	17-09-2003 06:22									#4
	Support Apolyton

Prescott will be 1MB L2.

	17-09-2003 07:06									#5
	Browse Apolyton AD-FREE

L3 cache is of dubious value.

	17-09-2003 07:27									#6
	Tired of ads?

Okay, I'm stupid...what are the L2 and L3 caches and what function do they serve?

	17-09-2003 07:29									#7
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

And the equally performing Athlon equivalent will cost $100 less.

	17-09-2003 07:33									#8
	Support Apolyton

So, I guess Oct. 26 is the day to build a new computer for me

	17-09-2003 07:36									#9
	Tired of ads?

Wait a few weeks and prices will drop like a rock as the new processors are released at the rate of one per month for the next two months.

	17-09-2003 07:45									#10
	Browse Apolyton AD-FREE

quote: Originally posted by Urban Ranger L3 cache is of dubious value.

On-die, high-bandwidth, low-latency caches are not.

Off-die L3 caches are questionable, RAM L3-caches like Apples are downright pathetic.

quote: Okay, I'm stupid...what are the L2 and L3 caches and what function do they serve?

The CPUs work by fetching information from system memory, computing, then storing them again. Caches are very very fast pools of memory that are many thousands of times faster than system RAM.

When the CPU needs data, it'll first search the L1 cache (which is very fast but very small), and if that fails, the L2 cache (which is slower than L1 but still very fast, and much larger). If the L2 fails, it'll go to the L3 cache (even larger but slower than L2, but still very fast), and finally to the system RAM.

An analogy is you're working on your desk with three rings of stuff nearby. The ring of stuff closest to you is L1, the next ring is L2, the next ring is L3. Stuff on the bookshelf on the other side of the house is system RAM, and stuff snail-mailed from Portugal is your hard disk.

	17-09-2003 07:47									#11
	Get a bigger avatar today!

quote: Originally posted by Sava And the equally performing Athlon equivalent will cost $100 less.

Look at the current situation: Equally performing Athlons are more expensive than Pentium 4s.

The Athlon 64s and Pentium 4EEs will both be quite expensive. The bottom of the line Athlon 64 is $400US, IIRC. And that's a castrated single-channel version.

	17-09-2003 07:48									#12
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

well.... YOU SMELL AND BILL GATES EATS POO

	17-09-2003 07:50									#13
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

quote: Originally posted by mrmitchell Where are all the products branded "Ordinary" or "Sub-par"?

That would be the comp on my desk at home

	17-09-2003 08:08									#14
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

quote: Originally posted by Asher On-die, high-bandwidth, low-latency caches are not. Off-die L3 caches are questionable, RAM L3-caches like Apples are downright pathetic.

The question is, how much will the L3 help when a branch prediction fails and the pipeline gets thrashed? For P4, you're screwed no matter what when the pipeline is emptied and the execution starts over at the other leg. For CPUs with shorter pipes, it's not that bad.

Another thing is, now that main memory is getting faster, how much of a gain do you get by having a L3 cache? Remember, it's still CMOS, and CMOS is not that fast. ECL is much faster, but also a lot hotter.

	17-09-2003 08:15									#15
	Get a bigger avatar today!

Thanks Asher. UR...what does that mean in English?

	17-09-2003 08:16									#16
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

quote: Originally posted by Urban Ranger The question is, how much will the L3 help when a branch prediction fails and the pipeline gets thrashed? For P4, you're screwed no matter what when the pipeline is emptied and the execution starts over at the other leg. For CPUs with shorter pipes, it's not that bad.

I'm trying hard to see what branch mispredicts have to do with extra cache.

The extra cache is there to try to lower the memory gap between the Athlon 64 and P4. Athlon 64's memory controller is on-die for low latency (70ns), the P4's for system RAM is somewhere about 90ns right now, but adding cache will lower the average latency even more.

	17-09-2003 08:24									#17
	Support Apolyton

oooooooh!!! it's EXTREEEEME!

	17-09-2003 08:25									#18
	Remove this text

I dare you to touch a P4 running w/o a heatsink and tell me it's not extreme.

	17-09-2003 08:29									#19
	Suffering from ads?

I dare you to stop a rhino in it's path by pure force of will.

	17-09-2003 08:30									#20
	Inflate your Upload Space

Make it a double-dare and it's a deal.

	17-09-2003 08:31									#21
	Increase the size of your Attachments

triple dog dare you!!!

	17-09-2003 08:33									#22
	Support Apolyton

Them fighting words!

	17-09-2003 08:42									#23
	Full PM-box? Change here!

Indeed, I'm surprised that at the sight of them you haven't rolled over and surrendered yet.

Oh, wait, that's the french, not the canadians. Never mind...

	17-09-2003 09:10									#24
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

So this is what Asher is masturbating over these days . . .

	17-09-2003 16:55									#25
	Tired of ads?

--"This ain't no Apple "L3 cache" bullshit, but the real deal -- same cache used in the Gallatin Xeons."

That's the inclusive L3, right? Not as impressive as it could be, then. Certainly not as imipressive as they'll market it ^_^ Intel does follow Apple in that regards (well, all companies do) although they aren't quite as bad.

The value of the L3 cache is fairly debatable for a desktop chip. The 512 k to 1 M transition on L2 has already reached the point of diminishing returns for the kind of things most people do with desktops. People who had been using Xeons could now switch to these, but we'll have to wait for the benchmarks to see if anyone else gets any real advantage from this.

Wraith
Shift to the left! Shift to the right! Pop up! Push down! Byte! Byte! Byte!

	17-09-2003 17:21									#26
	Full PM-box? Change here!

We should all write our posts TO THE EXTREME!!!!

	17-09-2003 17:25									#27
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

+0

TO THE MAX!!!!!

	17-09-2003 17:41									#28
	Full PM-box? Change here!

quote: Wait a few weeks and prices will drop like a rock as the new processors are released at the rate of one per month for the next two months.

****, I just bought a P4/2.8GHz/800MHz system. How much faster are these new Prescotts going to be?

	17-09-2003 17:46									#29
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

I can't wait to get this. I'll be playing an extremely grueling game of Civilization in my ExtremeComfort3000 computer chair, working my MS ExtremeMouse like no other.

	17-09-2003 17:53									#30
	Put an end to popups!

And after conquests?...CIV3 EXTREME!!!!!


oh boy.