19-09-2003 02:04									#1
	Watch TV or Go to Jail Got spare money?

I hope I'm not the only one upset beacuse of this.
The laws in America are out of control. I have friends who are law abiding seniors who have gotten woken up at 4am in the local KMart parking lot in their campers, even though the manager says sleeping there is OK, because of a city ordinance. Parents are thrown in jail if their kids are truant. No wonder 47 of 50 states have deficits and there's a $5 TRILLION National debt.

quote: Students locked up after refusing to watch Channel One When Ohio teenagers DJ and Carlotta Maurer walked out of their classrooms in October to protest the compulsory viewing of Channel One, a television program with commercials which is shown in schools across America, school officials realized they had a couple of dangerous radicals on their hands. Principal Patrick Calvin invoked the truancy provision of the school's code of student conduct, and 13-year-old DJ and 14-year-old Carlotta were whisked away to the Wood County Juvenile Detention Center, where they had all day to consider their crime. Since then, Commercial Alert and Obligation, Inc., two national anti-media groups, have taken up the Maurers' cause. The groups wrote to Ohio Governor Bob Taft, urging him to remove Channel One from all public schools. "When the government sends children to a juvenile detention center because they don't want to watch advertising, that is both Orwellian and more than a little sick," reads the letter. "The public schools ought to be a sanctuary from the noxious aspects of commercial culture." The governor has not responded to the letter. But the school is in negotiation with the Maurers, who have religious objections to television. It seems a day in the lockup didn't cool their heels enough to keep them from kicking. – Eliza Strickland From the Mar/Apr 2001 issue of Adbusters magazine.

	19-09-2003 02:06									#2
	Put an end to popups!

schools in this country = fascism...

	19-09-2003 02:07									#3
	Suffering from ads?

That was 2 years ago... what happened?

	19-09-2003 02:07									#4
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Truancy laws are at least reasonable. The article you gave us was just ridiculous, however.

EDIT: Wait? 2 years ago? I prefer my trolls even that I agree with to be up to date. Sorry

	19-09-2003 02:08									#5
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

That is screwed up. I am opposed to advertising in schools. Why were they forced to watch that channel?

	19-09-2003 02:09									#6
	Suffering from ads?

Do the crime... do the time...

If one of the rules is, you have to take tests... you take the tests... if one is, you have to watch Channel One... watch Channel One.

The schools get money and equipment for having Channel one... It could mean an extra teacher or equipment they can't afford to buy. The schools are trying their best... and Channel One gives them a way to do things better.

If the kids parents have "religious" problems with it... they should send their kids to a private school.

Deal with it.

	19-09-2003 02:12									#7
	Full PM-box? Change here!

Ming, on the other hand, however, Channel One has lots of advertising and it's really ridiculous to push a news organisation that might be biased on its students.

There should be an option to not watch it and do something else. Besides, don't you think a day in jail is a little extreme?

quote: If the kids parents have "religious" problems with it... they should send their kids to a private school.

What happened to the part of the First Amendment where they said the government couldn't discriminate against religion? I don't care how silly it is, it's still the first amendment. Channel One is not necesary to the operation of a school, which would be different from if a child had a religious preference towards Archway Cookies or something for writing instead of paper.

	19-09-2003 02:13									#8
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quote: Originally posted by Sava schools in this country = fascism...

Your avatar is just so fitting, Sava.

What the hell is channel one? Never heard of it.

-Arrian

	19-09-2003 02:14									#9
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

quote: Originally posted by Ming Do the crime... do the time... If one of the rules is, you have to take tests... you take the tests... if one is, you have to watch Channel One... watch Channel One. The schools get money and equipment for having Channel one... It could mean an extra teacher or equipment they can't afford to buy. The schools are trying their best... and Channel One gives them a way to do things better. If the kids parents have "religious" problems with it... they should send their kids to a private school. Deal with it.

sorRY coNFOrmIST MiDELE AgED FOGEY !!!! FIGHT THE SYSTME... BURN!!!

	19-09-2003 02:14									#10
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quote: What happened to the part of the First Amendment where they said the government couldn't discriminate against religion?

It's against my religion to take tests then

	19-09-2003 02:15									#11
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quote: What the hell is channel one? Never heard of it.

Television "news" program that schools can get and set aside 15 minutes or so to watch. As Ming said, schools get equipment and money for showing it, but as I said, it's got a huge amount of advertising in it.

	19-09-2003 02:16									#12
	Suffering from ads?

seriously though, this is bad... has this society got it's priorities so messed up that we are selling commercial time to corporations in order to fund education?

	19-09-2003 02:16									#13
	Increase the size of your Attachments

quote: It's against my religion to take tests then

And then I tried to be reasonable and give you the exception of school efficiency being at stake.

(I know, I know, you're joking )

	19-09-2003 02:17									#14
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quote: Originally posted by Ming The schools get money and equipment for having Channel one... It could mean an extra teacher or equipment they can't afford to buy. The schools are trying their best... and Channel One gives them a way to do things better.

There has to be a line though.
How far should a school whore itself out to commercial interests to raise a bit of extra cash before does more harm than good?

I remember reading somewhere that a school was being paid money by Coca-Cola (the school was 'sponsored' by Coke or something) and a kid got suspended coming to school in a Pepsi shirt for a joke.

Would that be a case of "If one of the rules is, you have to go along with the Coke advertising... you have to go along with the coke advertising"

	19-09-2003 02:19									#15
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

Glad I don't live south of the border.

Bunch of totaltarians. Jail time for skiping class?

	19-09-2003 02:19									#16
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

Channel One is an EDUCATIONAL NETWORK that broadcasts into schools. They provide the teachers with aids to help plan lessons from. As part of the deal, they provide ALL THE EQUIPMENT FOR FREE and usually toss in a equipment for a studio that allows the school to teach Broadcasting. They also offer money.

They do include commercials... but there are VERY STRICT GUIDELINES on what type of commercials can air.

Most schools can't afford this kind of equipment and WELCOME the opportunity to get it for free so that they can ENHANCE the education they can provide.

As far as religious freedom... try saying it's against your religion to learn math... and see how far that gets you.
Channel One is a just another teaching tool... so what if it has commercials. If it's against your religion to view commercials... the kids would never be allowed out of their homes... since you can't walk down a street without being exposed to ads... So don't give me that religious freedom crap

	19-09-2003 02:20									#17
	Got spare money?

It is 2 years old, but the overpolicing is current. I live in a semirual county of 100,000 which has a 5 story jail that takes up 2 blocks (and those don't even include the people on probation and we sent to prison). I moved up here to get away from managers who sucked the life out of programmers like myself, only to have CAMP helicopters fly overhead often.

	19-09-2003 02:21									#18
	Increase the size of your Attachments

Ok, I see the problem. On the one hand, the school benifits by getting equipment and money, on the other hand the programming is loaded with ads.

I'm torn on this one. It's good to get more money & goodies for schools, but it's bad to push ads on kids, as if there isn't enough commercialization already!

Then again, if this had been done in my school, we most likely would have spent the time mocking the program/ads. In fact, mandating that kids watch something is a pretty good way of ensuring they don't like it.

-Arrian

	19-09-2003 02:21									#19
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

quote: Originally posted by Ming As far as religious freedom... try saying it's against your religion to learn math... and see how far that gets you.

They aren't asking for passing grades, are they?

	19-09-2003 02:22									#20
	Got spare money?

quote: As far as religious freedom... try saying it's against your religion to learn math... and see how far that gets you.

Now what did I just mention about school efficiency being at stake? Channel One doesn't hurt, and watching it is certainly not a necessary ingredient of any school day.

There ARE guidelines for the commercials (i.e. you won't see a beer commercial or the Marlboro Man) but commercials are commercials.

And, with no response, I guess you agree that it is indeed extreme

	19-09-2003 02:25									#21
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

quote: Originally posted by Ming Channel One is an EDUCATIONAL NETWORK

Does it educate kids to drink Coke or Pepsi?

	19-09-2003 02:28									#22
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quote: Does it educate kids to drink Coke or Pepsi?

Coke and Pepsi aren't advertised on Channel One, I think.

On the other hand, Coke and Pepsi machines in school are the same dilemma. It's big bucks to have a soda machine at school, but the downside is that everyone knows it's just the company making grabs for kids not yet Coke or Pepsi fanatics. (And it's a company advertising..duh... )

	19-09-2003 02:28									#23
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Kids watch education movies in classrooms across America... this is no different except for the commercials.

And they are not LOADED with commercials. they are strickly limited, far more so than regular television.
And there can be NO DIRECT sell in the commercials... like buy a barbie... or use our mouthwash so you can get laid... There are VERY strict guidelines.

The average person is exposed to over 1,000 ads a day... a few more isn't going to kill them... but it can provide a better educational tool for teachers to use.

	19-09-2003 02:30									#24
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

quote: And there can be NO DIRECT sell in the commercials.

"A day without corn puffs is like a day without my skateboard", coming from one of those hip youngster "extreme sports" figures. You're the ad exec, so you know what's direct sell and what's not, but a sell is a sell.

	19-09-2003 02:32									#25
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

I think people are missing the real problem here... JAIL TIME FOR SKIPPING CLASS? It's the students choice if he wants to watch some lame ass TV show every morning. Skipping it might make him more likely to fail (not likely) but so what, that's his choice.

	19-09-2003 02:32									#26
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

advertising can have a significant negative impact on people... I'd rather not expose kids to a few more...

	19-09-2003 02:34									#27
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

quote: Originally posted by Sava advertising can have a significant negative impact on people...

Prove it... instead of just making stuff up, show some real life proof of your claims.

(Oh, and what did you think of Jag bag Thursday today... some great stuff)

	19-09-2003 02:36									#28
	Full PM-box? Change here!

quote: Originally posted by Ming Prove it... instead of just making stuff up, show some real life proof of your claims.

You are the proof, Ming.

	19-09-2003 02:39									#29
	Increase Your PM Length

quote: Originally posted by Osweld You are the proof, Ming.

Great response there... did it take you a few minutes to come up with it

Find some "real" scientific study to prove the point... good luck...

	19-09-2003 02:40									#30
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Ming shows a remarkable ability to bend to authority.

The kids walked out because they had objections to television. It's the equivalent of walking out of a biology on dissection day because you have moral problems with cutting up a frog. It's something that gets sorted out in the school, not juvie.

Does walking out hurt their education? Possibly.

Does walking out cause the removal of Channel One funding? No unless so little dissent is tolerated that two students can bring the system down.

Might the students have to work harder to make up for the missed learning? Yes. They may even have to open a book and have a discussion instead of being sat in front of a TV and made to watch ads. Shock. Horror.

Is the US school system a complete nutcase compared to the rest of the world? Yes.