19-09-2003 13:42									#61
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Advertisements don't create needs? Whatta crap

	19-09-2003 13:44									#62
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quote: Advertisements don't create needs?

Of course they don't. Desire creates perceived needs; advertisements just provide a convenient excuse for people to indulge the desires they already possess. Extinguish your desires and advertisements will have no power over you.

	19-09-2003 13:48									#63
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You know that sounds just like something the HIVE leader Sheng-Ji Yang would say.
"learn to overcome the drastic demands of flesh and bone...."

Anyways I can't believe someone working in the industry would try to feed us this crap

	19-09-2003 14:47									#64
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quote: Originally posted by laurentius Anyways I can't believe someone working in the industry would try to feed us this crap

I can't believe that some people actually think that ad's can make you buy something you don't want

	19-09-2003 15:05									#65
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Its not the same thing. Think about tobacco ads for example. Who needed or desired them before the companies started to invest huge amounts of money in advertising them. They potrayed smoking as social, hip, cool, rebellious or whatever. So people catched up with it and started to burn their lungs out. Yeah, its a drug, so they wanted more of it. They needed it.

Ok, thats chemistry and not all advertisements are as lethal and addictive as that, but sure you can agree with me that people can be taught to get hooked on something using our natural desire for comfort.

Softdrinks, cars, videogames, you name it. It's all about creating needs -artificial or not- and at the same time giving you a product by wich you can satisfy your need or desire, for a limited amout of time.

	19-09-2003 15:14									#66
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People were smoking long before advertising was ever invented.

	19-09-2003 15:23									#67
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Smoking was big long before traditional advertising came into being in the late 1890's... The biggest factor in smoking has been determinded to be peer preasure... not advertising. Advertising at it's strongest is able to make you try a different brand, not smoke to begin with.

As far as soft drinks... again, ads are effective in getting people to switch brands, but not drink them if you aren't interested in them or don't like them. No ammount of advertising will make me all of a sudden buy a soft drink... I hate em.

Ad's don't create needs.... you are the one that does that. Again... you aren't going to buy a BMW just because you see an ad. Studies have shown that people ignore or tune out ads for products they aren't in the market for. They only get interested in ads for a product when they move into the "buying decision" stage of the process. In other words... ads can help direct somebody to a specific brand, but only after they have made the decision to buy a product in that category in the first place.

If indeed advertising was as effective as you seem to want to give it credit for... NO PRODUCT would ever fail. People could just spend money on advertising, and always be successful. Anybody who understands the business world knows that what you are implying is totally silly.

	19-09-2003 15:34									#68
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quote: Originally posted by Ming If indeed advertising was as effective as you seem to want to give it credit for... NO PRODUCT would ever fail. People could just spend money on advertising, and always be successful. Anybody who understands the business world knows that what you are implying is totally silly.

Thats just because many commercials are so lame that nobody gets intrigued by them. Bad commercials dont count

	19-09-2003 15:41									#69
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Advertising is about getting into the prospect's mind. You want to be sure that when he thinks "I want to buy a drink" your soft-drink will be the first thing that comes into his mind when he enters the store.

However with kids it is tottaly different. They accept everything much more easily, without the healthy dose of scepticism we, as adults, are used to. Do you, as an adult, believe everything an ad shows and/or tells you? Hardly. Does a kid ? Yes.

Kids shouldn't watch advertising, especially not in schools. They are supposed to learn in school, not to be brainwashed.

	19-09-2003 15:43									#70
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Ok I agree people were smoking long before satan came up with ads but look at the developing world. Africans, asians, east europeans, they are among the heviest smokers in the world and they dont have a "tradition of smoking"
Advertisements have greatest impact on these countries where people arent civilised(exept for the e-europe)enough to regard ads with healthy doze of skeptisism. Just as Tiberius said about kids.

Ok another example Ming. Mobile phones. Who needed them before the 90ties. Very few. Who can live without them now. Very few. Those wise guys in Motorola/Nokia etc decides to start to sell things to people they didnt even know they needed.

	19-09-2003 15:44									#71
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Only in America!

	19-09-2003 15:48									#72
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quote: Originally posted by laurentius Thats just because many commercials are so lame that nobody gets intrigued by them. Bad commercials dont count

The best commercial ever produced isn't going to make you buy a product you don't need or want.

Advertising is about effecting brand decisions...
Yes, it can also inform you about new products, something you may never have seen before and didn't know that you might be interested in ... but if you have no need for the product, an ad won't work on you.

	19-09-2003 15:56									#73
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quote: Originally posted by Ming The best commercial ever produced isn't going to make you buy a product you don't need or want. Advertising is about effecting brand decisions... Yes, it can also inform you about new products, something you may never have seen before and didn't know that you might be interested in ... but if you have no need for the product, an ad won't work on you.

Oh no? Well about a year ago we had a strange tv-commercial here in Finland. Nobody had ever heard about the product before, nobody knew what was it about, nobody even knew if the product was car, tvshow, game etc. In the ad itself there was only this japanese guy doing crazy things and shouting "isohai" every once a while. So, a month or so passed. I went to a supermarket and took a look on the magazines they sold. There I saw a mag called "Isohai". I bought from sheer intrest and found out it was a new mobile phone magazine.

At the end of the day I didnt really have any need for the mag what so ever. I still bought it and my friend in the company subscribed it for me for free

	19-09-2003 15:56									#74
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quote: but if you have no need for the product, an ad won't work on you.

not need, desire.

People buy things not because they need them , but because they desire them (except for basic necessities).

	19-09-2003 16:07									#75
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quote: Advertisements have greatest impact on these countries where people arent civilised(exept for the e-europe)enough to regard ads with healthy doze of skeptisism.

This is a pretty arrogant statement. Asians, for one, are certainly experienced enough with advertising to have developed as much skepticism as any Westerner. They're also quite civilized.

	19-09-2003 16:09									#76
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Why am I surprised that Ming doesn't think that kids being forced to watch advertising is bad. Something to do with his profession?

I think this is terrible but more and more schools here are getting sponsored by businesses. Personally I think the government should ban it and fund the schools better by raising my taxes if necessary.

Better educated kids -> higher skilled better paid workforce in future -> more tax payers paying more tax -> can lower taxes again.

w00t.

	19-09-2003 16:10									#77
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Well Drake to specify I meant an average chinese, burmese, laoese, vietnamese etc

	19-09-2003 16:15									#78
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quote: Why am I surprised that Ming doesn't think that kids being forced to watch advertising is bad. Something to do with his profession?

I'm a teacher and I don't see a problem with it.

quote: Well Drake to specify I meant an average chinese, burmese, laoese, vietnamese etc

Oh, so only the poor Asians are uncivilized...

	19-09-2003 16:15									#79
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quote: Originally posted by laurentius There I saw a mag called "Isohai". I bought from sheer intrest and found out it was a new mobile phone magazine. At the end of the day I didnt really have any need for the mag what so ever. I still bought it and my friend in the company subscribed it for me for free

If you are dumb enough to buy a magazine before even knowing what it was all about... that's your problem.

You actually satisfied your own need... you wanted to know what it was all about... Ads can create interest... that's the whole idea. But your example is more an example of you satisfiying your own curiosity... and not about an ad forcing you to buy a product you didn't need.

Would you go out and buy a car if you didn't need one just because you saw an ad? If the answer is yes, I have some property in Florida I would like to sell you

	19-09-2003 16:17									#80
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quote: Originally posted by Ming I can't believe that some people actually think that ad's can make you buy something you don't want

Your bosses must be real good, if they have you thinking advertising is all about informing the consumer to make an educated decisision.

Advertising is all about manipulation, using visuals that provoke reaction or association with different things and cause the person to want something, or to keep thinking of it.

Look at iMac ads, they don't need to say anything technical at all. All they need is hip music and cool visuals, and they can sell it to people solely through the aesthetics of their commericals.

Or those cellphone adds with kissing lizards and crap. Where does any of that play in 'informing the consumer'?

	19-09-2003 16:19									#81
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Sure are a lot of weak-minded and easily influenced people on this board...

	19-09-2003 16:21									#82
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Nah, I just had some loose change

	19-09-2003 16:22									#83
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quote: Originally posted by Osweld Your bosses must be real good, if they have you thinking advertising is all about informing the consumer to make an educated decisision. Advertising is all about manipulation, using visuals that provoke reaction or association with different things and cause the person to want something, or to keep thinking of it.

Look at what you just wrote and think about it for a second. Ming is currently Advertising the Advertising industry.

	19-09-2003 17:08									#84
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quote: Originally posted by Osweld Your bosses must be real good, if they have you thinking advertising is all about informing the consumer to make an educated decisision.

Uhhh... I am one of the bosses I also lecture at industry events and Universites...

quote: Advertising is all about manipulation, using visuals that provoke reaction or association with different things and cause the person to want something, or to keep thinking of it.

Yes... advertising is meant to make you think about the product... and to feel good about the product. But again, you are giving advertising more credit than it has in reality. It can't make you buy something you don't need or want. It may get you to sample a product... but only if you have an interest to begin with.

quote: Look at iMac ads, they don't need to say anything technical at all. All they need is hip music and cool visuals, and they can sell it to people solely through the aesthetics of their commericals.

The commercials don't "sell the product"... They make you aware of the product... the Hip music and cool visuals will remind you that there is another choice to consider... NOBODY will buy it based "solely" on the commercial

quote: Or those cellphone adds with kissing lizards and crap. Where does any of that play in 'informing the consumer'?

Informing can be one objective... Another valid objective is to remind. If kissing lizards will remind people of the brand... and get them to "consider" buying the product when they are already in the market for a cell phone... then the commercial has done all it can. The kissing lizards don't make people buy it... they make people remember so that the product is considered in the first place.

	19-09-2003 17:09									#85
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Intopic: I read an article about year or two ago where this TV-executive? was being interviewed. He said that not watching all the ads on commercial breaks is equal to stealing. That was pretty phucked up I think. Do you remeber hearing about this, if so what do you think about it?

	19-09-2003 17:14									#86
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quote: Originally posted by Ming Informing can be one objective... Another valid objective is to remind. If kissing lizards will remind people of the brand... and get them to "consider" buying the product when they are already in the market for a cell phone... then the commercial has done all it can. The kissing lizards don't make people buy it... they make people remember so that the product is considered in the first place.

Maybe not kissing lizards but how about mobiles used in movies such as Nokias and Samsungs in Matrixes and Ericssons in 007? Thats not direct marketing, but it still potrays the product in desirable enviroment such as the hero or the villain, the rich and succesful guy or the cool dude.

	19-09-2003 17:18									#87
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quote: Originally posted by Ming Yes... advertising is meant to make you think about the product... and to feel good about the product. But again, you are giving advertising more credit than it has in reality. It can't make you buy something you don't need or want.

Yes, it just makes you need it or want it.

That's what fads and 'in things' are all about, needing a commercial product. Commercials can play on people's emotions and thoughts and make them need something. I have seen people buy things they don't need solely because of a commercial and I did it as a kid, too. (damn you, nintendo power!)

You don't simply "inform" people of your product or try to convince them to buy it instead of rivals, you make them think they need it.

	19-09-2003 17:23									#88
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quote: Originally posted by laurentius Intopic: I read an article about year or two ago where this TV-executive? was being interviewed. He said that not watching all the ads on commercial breaks is equal to stealing. That was pretty phucked up I think. Do you remeber hearing about this, if so what do you think about it?

I remember something like that... whether it was the same thing the you remember, I don't know for sure.
But we in the industry laughed our brains out. One of the biggest concerns of Commercial TV Execs is the declining ratings, zipping, switching, and zapping.

The declining ratings are due to more channels to view thanks to cable and satelite.

Zipping is when people record events and fast forward or zip through the commercials when they watch it.

Switching is when people just use their remote to switch channels when a commercial comes on.

Zapping is when people use devices that cut out commercials.

The fact that some bozo would stand up and call not watching the commercial theft is simply too funny for words... Advertising execs are aware of these problems, and we deal with it in a different fashion. First, we try to devise ads that people need (ie, provide real information that help people make a decision) or try to be as entertaining as possible, so people WANT to watch/read/listen to the ad.

We are also aware that TV ads aren't what they used to be. They can't provide the same kind of coverage that they could in the past when people only had a choice of three networks, a pbs station, and a few independents... So we plan our media strategies accordingly.

	19-09-2003 17:30									#89
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Osweld... Advertising doesn't create fads or "in things"... but yeah, they can be used to add more power to current trends. But without the original fad in the first place... ads by themselves can not create them.

And sure... we "try" to convince people they need something. But again, we try to show them why they need it... but we can't create a "need" out of thin air.

You aren't going to buy a car if you don't "need" one.

As far as kids go... you probably wanted or bought "toys" you saw ads for. But ad's didn't make you want toys or video games... you were going to want or buy them anyway... we just want you to buy OUR toys or video games... So yeah... our job is to inform you that we are selling a product in a category you already desire... inform you that there is a new category that answers a current need you have... and to make sure that if you are going to buy... it's OUR product in the category.

	19-09-2003 17:52									#90
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quote: Originally posted by Ming Osweld... Advertising doesn't create fads or "in things"... but yeah, they can be used to add more power to current trends. But without the original fad in the first place... ads by themselves can not create them.

There are fads created by people, and there are corporate fads. Britney spears, and pop culture in general, is a good example of corporate fads. Brintey spears was nothing before all the hype was created around her.

quote: And sure... we "try" to convince people they need something. But again, we try to show them why they need it... but we can't create a "need" out of thin air. You aren't going to buy a car if you don't "need" one.

Ah, so you are begining to admit it.

A car is expensive, so no, most people wouldn't buy one if they don't need it. They would however buy a huge gas guzzling 4x4 to drive their kids to school in, despite not needing that. And if they have the money, some people will buy cars for the hell of it.

quote: As far as kids go... you probably wanted or bought "toys" you saw ads for. But ad's didn't make you want toys or video games... you were going to want or buy them anyway... we just want you to buy OUR toys or video games... So yeah... our job is to inform you that we are selling a product in a category you already desire... inform you that there is a new category that answers a current need you have... and to make sure that if you are going to buy... it's OUR product in the category.

I often wanted to buy nintendo games without even knowing what the game was, I just read some stupid hype in nintendo power and decided I needed that game. I bought alot of crap games because of that.

I'm still a bit partial to gaming hype, but thankfully I can download games and see what it's all about before spending money on it now.