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Nor Me
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I've not really finished but I'm running out of time. This is what I've got so far:
The Arsenal- you know you could have done better with more workers. Honestly, much better. Why literature? You won't be building libraries soon. It's not the best to trade. Given that you'll be crippling 2 AIs shortly, the Great Library will not be very useful even if you get an AI to build it for you.
Theseus- Good work with the Japanese. You've obviously chosen to go with less cities and a bigger military. Close city spacing and enough workers to develop the middle faster seem to have meant that you've been able to outproduce your teammates.
One problem though, what next? It's obvious you need to either attack America or expand. You can't attack America with Chariots alone and your archers will take time to get there. You're not set up to expand. Attacking with horsemen would make your future options worse and delay Monarchy. You could delay Monarchy even further and do a quick mostly regular swordsman rush and leave the accumulating chariots as MP but your lead on Monarchy is half of what makes this save good and it would make the barracks and chariots overkill.
None of these options take advantage of all the things you've gained by slowing your expansion. Without that, I'd wonder if it was worth it. I wouldn't want to have to make this choice myself and I'm hesitating to make this team do so.
Beta- you've got reasonable expansion and the best attacking potential straight away. I like it. I can't really argue with those swordsmen with horsemen coming up. I'm not sure about code of laws though. Further examination of the save revealed that Japan has researched polytheism so there is at least the potential for a Monarchy beeline should this save be chosen.
Charlie_six- OK, your plan was successful in holding back the other civs. So Baghdad and Najran will shortly be able to usefully build enough settlers and workers while Damascus and Medina continue to build military units. Looking at it, I'd say you'd be successful at least until the AIs manage to hook up their resources.
I'm just not sure if it was ever the best idea. If I were at war with the Japanese, I wouldn't want to start an opportunistic war with the Americans. So my best units wouldn't be on the other front. You're not going to gain anything positive from your way with the Japanese nor any war with the Americans that could happen soon. Under the circumstances, I'd be either settling peacfully or looking for real gains from war. You seem to be committed to settling slowly. Of course expanding faster could give anyone more military power eventually.
Master Zen- a balanced development of your 1st game. I'd have had more workers for what you look to be doing. It looks like America will already be usefully pruned and that consequently you've got enough space to expand before you need to upgrade rush.
Kon- You have as many cities as I do even without the settler in 3850BC we had. Although you're noticeably behind in workersand tile improvement. I like the city placement too. Even with this, you've managed to seriously damage the Americans.
Regular chariots are an interesting idea. I suppose that you'd be able to get a regular horseman rush going very quickly from here.I'd have been attempting to get more money off the AI since their research can't really hurt you now and I wouldn't want to be selling Map Making now and have nothing to trade. Because of the worse retreat, regular hoprsemen are probably worse than regular sworsmen and I wouldn't want to be taking too heavily defended cities with them. But at the least, you can hang around in the space outside Kyoto, stopping the Japanese from ever hooking up their resources and killing off archers.
From here, it certainly looks like you'd be able to shut down both the American and Japanese and expansion while having the cities to expand yourself. That has to be good.
Map making is a bit of a gamble. But as a member of a rival team, I'd certainly like the spoiler information it could give  . You don't look to be in a position to get out of despotism soon (Beta was lucky: the Japanese are researching writing in this save). It might be worth it.
Taian- You've done the most damage to a rival civ and things aren't bad domestically. It looks like you'll gain three cities from the Japanese.
But by breaking your peace treaty with them, you won't be able to any cities out of the Americans like that. You also seem to let the Carthaginians through the cokepoint. They have a city near the spices and have contact. That's bad as I'd be hoping to pull a quick Arrian deception if I'd broken a peace treaty. The Carthaginian presence making this unlikely.
You also don't seem to be in a position to slow down the Americans. Again, that would be better if you could take cities from them eventually but that's not going to be easy. Perhaps if they were in Monarchy and couldn't pop rush, you'd have a chance at capturing a few.
This team seems to have far more variety in their positions than the others. Warfare does that. So it's much more difficult to compare positions. I'm sure that some of the more ambitious plans have a good chance at working especially with so many of you to try.
I can rule out The Arsenal, I'm afraid  . But after that it gets difficult. It became a choice between Beta and Kon for what I'm sure might be rational reasons.
Final vote: Kon
He's had good expansion while hurting the most threatening AI and is in a position to attack the other shortly.
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Theseus
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The warmonger formerly known as rpodos. Gathering Storm! Apolyton Spirit!!
Apr 2002
time: 00:30
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quote:
Originally posted by Nor Me
Theseus- Good work with the Japanese. You've obviously chosen to go with less cities and a bigger military. Close city spacing and enough workers to develop the middle faster seem to have meant that you've been able to outproduce your teammates.
One problem though, what next? It's obvious you need to either attack America or expand. You can't attack America with Chariots alone and your archers will take time to get there. You're not set up to expand. Attacking with horsemen would make your future options worse and delay Monarchy. You could delay Monarchy even further and do a quick mostly regular swordsman rush and leave the accumulating chariots as MP but your lead on Monarchy is half of what makes this save good and it would make the barracks and chariots overkill.
None of these options take advantage of all the things you've gained by slowing your expansion. Without that, I'd wonder if it was worth it. I wouldn't want to have to make this choice myself and I'm hesitating to make this team do so.
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Nor Me (and everyone else):
Once again, I don;t think I did a very good job of describing my intentions (Although I DID get my DAR up on Monday night, you slackers!!).
I don;t think you get the sheer production power of the four camps and all the 'middle' (i.e., shared) tiled improvements.
If I forecast correctly, I will in 1000BC have two more 'keeper cities up (prolly Istanbul 9999 and 1112), thus then 4 camps and 4 keepers in a RCP4 ring. I should also at that point have 2-3 Settlers being built, with probable delivery in another 3-6 turns.
This is by virtue of building Settlers amongst the military units, whenever a given city is going to otherwise have to have an entertainer, even with 1-2 MP (thus generally just when they turn 4-5 pop), and also by virtue of Istanbul having a granary and temple, and thus, with 2 Warrior MPs, building Settlers just when at 6 pop (in other words: FAST).
Also, and here's the fun part, by 1000BC I should have AT LEAST:
12 Warriors
5 Archers and and 2 Spear (same as now)
10 Chariots
What I didn;t communicate is that as of 1250 BC, I can go to peace with Toku and extort EITHER Edo or HBR... I'd rather raze Edo and then extort HBR, but not until around 1000BC, or when we have at least 10 Chariots and some gold for upgrades (and maybe even a LEETLE bit later... 20 Chariots??!!). The key, of course, will be having enough gold for upgrades; I figured on staying at high research until the low 20s-turns remaining, and then going to 10% research to build up enough gold. This should time things approximately to upgrading, decimating America, and converting to Monarchy all at just about the same time.
And, btw, this early in the game, I wouldn;t hesitate to send 10+ Chariot into America's vicinity, maybe in two teams, just in case there's a Warrior / Settler team or two or three about (no attacks against Spears, though). Possibly time the acquisition of HBR from Toku to upgrades (and healing) of resulting wounded Chariots.
BTW, I have no problem with building many Warriors at this point... they are fine as MPs, and my guess is they won;t get used until upgraded to MedInf for the attack on Carthage.
Sorry for not explaining fully earlier... trust me, this is an insanely powerful position.
I'm a total convert to camps (and huge internal tile development)... in the screw-around game I'm playing as Ottomans, my first move was to build three camps, on hills, which is even better.
So, to your concerns:
Expansion - On the way, fast.
America - Toast. Burnt to a crisp.
Pyramids (Washington) and Oracle (Kyoto)?
Priceless.
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BRC
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Guys, I'm sorry, but I'm gonna have to abstain. Just not enough time. I will make it up though, I promise.
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Dominae
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I want my vote to count, but I have no time to write up decent notes on my decision. So I'm going to vote now, and comment on the weekend.
I vote for Kon.
Everyone seems to have taken a different route in this block, which is interesting but makes it that much harder to judge. In the end I feel that Kon's game is perhaps the most conservative, which I think is good thing on this map. There's plenty of space, resources are accessible, the other civs are not too strong, and so there's no need to rush into things. Kon's plan seems to be to efficiently build up an overwhelming force and go from there, and I think that's the best decision here.
Honorable mention goes to Theseus for sticking with the MZ game even though he vehemently disagreed with it. I'm sure we're all feeling a dose of this, but Theseus vocalized his concerns and then trudged on anyway; now that's participation!
Dominae
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23-09-2003 10:10
) parameter into the mix as far as I am concerned.
)... 
Attachment: 
Attachment: 
Never actually thought that would happen in real life, only the movies. Very sur-real experience.
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