20-09-2003 09:55									#1
	Turn 119, 190BC Full PM-box? Change here!

To be edited only by the Consuls and Ministers.

Status:
- Republic
- Researching Invention (38) 1 scientist.
- 54 gold. +25 gpt
- Slider at 9/0/1 tax/sci/lux


Urgent questions & tasks
- Trade agreement written up with CFC. Done?
- Determining turn that we attack. We can be ready to attack on T 121, 2 from now.

Unit Movement & Actions:

All units (excepting units approaching the assembling site) in Army Group A/B (AGA/B) to remain (fortified) on the road tile 8 of Cuido where they can maintain the maximum mobility to deal with a GCA threat. Next turn they move to Cuido 2.

AGA/B contains: 3 vet Horseman, 20 vet MIs, 6 vet NMs, 1 elite Warrior, 4 Catapults, 1 Settler (35 units).

G01 I. PoA [WhiteBandit] moves 4-4-4 (or 4-4-7) then uses FORTIFY ALL trick with WB. WB then disembarks to get a closer look at the world around.
G02 II. Expedition [Flash, Jagjef] skips turn.

All 8 MIs in Mingapulco move 2-1-2 to Karina.

M12 XII. BigFurryInfantry moves 2.

H02 vonHorseman moves 3.

N01 I. MerZenary moves 2.
N04 IV. Togas moves 6 into Equilibrium; will be used to guard the city and the silks.
N05 V. Enamel moves 7.
N07 VII. Ghengis moves 7.

W02 II. BigFree moves 3-7 and fortifies (scouting cycle).
W12 XII. WWNN moves 6.

All other units to remain as they are.



Economy:
Apolyton - building NM (2 of 3 turn).
Mingapolco - building NM (2 of 3 turn).
Bananatopia - building NM (2 of 3 turn).
Incensity - Building NW (3 of 4 turns).
Tripoli - building Barracks (??).
Equilibrium - Building Walls (13 of 20 turns).
Cuildo de Alcohol - Building Catapult (11 of 20 turns) - scheadual is less.
Hispanica - Building Barracks (6 of 10 turns).
Possumopolis - Building Catapult (6 of 7 turns).
Karina - Catapult built, Start Building Worker (1 of 5 turns).
LuxInvicta - Building Granary (13 of 17 turns).
Big Bend - Worker built, start building Worker (1 of 8 turns).
BigFurryCity - Building Barracks (5 of 10 turns).
Heart of Darkness - Worker (2 of 2 turns).


WF:
Apolyton - starting WF 5-6-8-13-18 (working game). NC.
Mingapolco - starting WF 1-2-8-9-15. NC.
Bananatopia - starting WF 2-6-7-8-9-15-20. Change WF to 2-5-6-7-8-9-16.
Incensity - starting WF 5-6-7-14. Change WF to 4-5-7-17. This is so that when BFC grows in 2 turns, that the Gold hills will be worked and not the grassland.
Tripoli - starting WF 7-17-19-20. Change to 2-17-18-20.
Equilibrium - starting WF scientist. NC
Cuildo de Alcohol - (grows this turn) starting WF 1-10. Change WF to 1-19.
Hispanica - starting WF 1-2-3-4. NC.
Possumopolis - starting WF 7-14. NC.
Karina - starting WF 3-17. Change WF to 3-4.
LuxInvicta - starting WF 4-8-10. Change WF to 4-9-13.
Big Bend - (worker built) starting WF ??3?? - change WF to 3.
BigFurryCity - starting WF 6-7-8. IF Not this WF, change to 6-7-8. Set Govenor to Emphasize both Production and Trade.
Heart of Darkness - starting WF 3-10-11-13. NC


Workers:
Referance: Map of tiles still needing Improvements
Monkee & CalcII - Start Clearing Tripoli 7 (WF #8).
Mark & Otto - Road. do this before moving Go3.
Horse - move 1 to Tripoli WF #9 (Banana WF #12), will start to clear next turn. 6 turns to clear.
Squid - move 1-1 (joining Horse) to Tripoli WF #9 (Banana WF #12), will start to clear next turn.
Yo & rah - Start Mining.
New Worker from Big Bend (needs a name), move 7-4 (joining Yo & rah) and mine (done).
Rush - move 1 (joining Spink) and start mining. 2 turns to complete.
Spink - Mining BFC WF #19. 2 turns to complete
panag - mining Hispanica WF #20. 5 worker turns.
Go3 (MrWIA, EVC and Dejon) - Mark and Otto need to Road before moving Go3. Move 3 to Lux 6 (WF #3) and mine (Done).
Dan and Git - clearing jungle at Big Bend 3 (WF #4), 4 turns left.
Yin & Lib - mine at Possum 4 (WF #7) is built, one worker is frozen, the other is not. Move whichever worker towards Equilibruim, will be joining Slave Farb when he gets there. The other will follow next turn.
Slave Farb - Roading Equil 4 (WF #7). 6 slave turns to complete.



Diplomacy:
GCA: NAP in effect (to Turn 130).
CFC: NAP expired.

Comment, please, many "plans" are just suggestions or ideas, not decisions already made.

---
Note: keypad directions used for all except WF orders.

Discussion and basic reporting to follow. See the topped thread for comprehensive results

Last edited by E_T on 22-09-2003 at 07:16

	20-09-2003 18:41									#2
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

I have been discussing with Trip and BigFree the possibility of Rushing the Cat in Cuido de Alcohol. This is will take place next turn (turn 120) and it will be ready to go on the first turn of the war. This will cost 28 Gold.

THis is for several reasons:
1) to give us a little bit more of a chance, from the start of the war of making sure that our victories are as fast as possible.

2) to let Cuido de Alcohol start building a settler (and the Fort city a worker) so that both can be moved and integrated in the shortest amount of time available. That way, IF we do get a GL in the first part of the war, we will have the FP city ready to be built for him.

3) I think that there was one more reason, but I can't think of it right now. I'll edit this post when I can remember....

MoI E_T

	21-09-2003 05:30									#3
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

All units (excepting units approaching the assembling site) in Army Group A/B (AGA/B) to remain (fortified) on the road tile 8 of Cuido where they can maintain the maximum mobility to deal with a GCA threat. Next turn they move to Cuido 2.

AGA/B contains: 3 vet Horseman, 20 vet MIs, 6 vet NMs, 1 elite Warrior, 4 Catapults, 1 Settler (35 units).

G01 I. PoA [WhiteBandit] moves 4-4-4 (or 4-4-7) then uses FORTIFY ALL trick with WB. WB then disembarks to get a closer look at the world around.
G02 II. Expedition [Flash, Jagjef] skips turn.

All 8 MIs in Mingapulco move 2-1-2 to Karina.

M12 XII. BigFurryInfantry moves 2.

H02 vonHorseman moves 3.

N01 I. MerZenary moves 2.
N04 IV. Togas moves 6 into Equilibrium; will be used to guard the city and the silks.
N05 V. Enamel moves 7.
N07 VII. Ghengis moves 7.

W02 II. BigFree moves 3-7 and fortifies (scouting cycle).
W12 XII. WWNN moves 6.

All other units to remain as they are.

	21-09-2003 05:46									#4
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

I'd like to see two of the cities changed from NMs to MIs. This leaves 2 MIs and 2 NMs in what's probably the last round of production before the GA.

	21-09-2003 06:02									#5
	Put an end to popups!

According to CFC the GWT Galley is going around the island to the west... which should add 4/5 turns to their reaching GCA if they go all the way around.

	21-09-2003 06:35									#6
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quote: Originally posted by Trip I'd like to see two of the cities changed from NMs to MIs. This leaves 2 MIs and 2 NMs in what's probably the last round of production before the GA.

We are going to need far more defensive units.

We have the punch now, more than was planned for. We have a serious lack of defensive troops, unless MI's should be used defensively.

	21-09-2003 06:36									#7
	Tired of ads?

PS. I was thinking a round of Mercs, and then begin on AG C

	21-09-2003 07:19									#8
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Yes, we need a more defencive group to help follow up our offencive group, especially to prevent GCA having such a great time with their famous Offenses.

Yes, more NM's are good.

E_T

	21-09-2003 22:26									#9
	Worker tasking for the next 10 turns (or so) Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

First off, we will shortly be at war and hopefully, have our GA triggered on the first turns of that war. To help this effort, I'm going to have Yo, rah and the new worker from Big Bend mine the tiles that are between Karina, Big Bend and LuxInicta.

For that group (Yo, rah and New Worker #1 - NW#1), they will Mine the following tiles:
turn 119 - Mine Karina 3 (WF #4).
turn 120 - Mine Big Bend 7 (WF #8).
turn 121 - (start of war, possible GA) - Mine Lux 2 (WF #5).
turn 122 - Yo & rah are released to the MoW for any needs that he has to support the war effort. NW#1 heads to HoD 2 (WF #5) to help with clearing it. or they mine Cuido 8 (WF #1) and will head to their tasking new taskings a turn later..
turn 123 - Yo & rah are directed by the MoW. NW#1 arrives at HoD 2.
turn 124 - NW#1 helps NW#2 (from HoD) finish clearing HoD 2

New Worker #2 (NW#2) - built in HoD on turn 120
turn 120 - move 3 to HoD.
turn 121 - start clearing (12 worker turns).
turn 124 - NW#1 starts to help (9 worker turns left).
turn 128 - tile cleared, workers out of sync (i.e, one moble, one frozen), IF bonus, mining, IF regular, start roading - this is up for debate, depending on circumestances.
turn 129 - road done, workers out of sync still. start moving to new jungle task.
if NW#1 is used to mine Cuido 8, then the workers will not be out of sync and the tile will still be cleared and roaded on the same turns.

Yin, Lib & Slave Farb (because Yin and Lib are out of sync, we will refer to them this way)
turn 119 - Yin moves towards Equilibrium. Lib Frozen
turn 120 - Yin joins Slave Farb, Lib starts towards Equilibrum.
turn 121 - Yin helps Slave Farb Road. Lib joins them.
turn 122 - road done - Slave Farb is mobile, Yin is Frozen. Move Farb & Lib 7 to Equil WF #18.
turn 123 - Farb & Lib starts roading. Yin moves to join them.
turn 124 - Farb & Lib still roading. Yin moves to Silks.
turn 125 - road done, Farb & Lib Frozen. Yin makes a colony. Silks are connected.
turn 126 - Farb & Lib start clearing Equil 4 (WF #7). 8 turns to clear.

Monkee & CalcII
turn 119 - start clearing Tripoli 7 (WF #8). 6 turns to clear.
turn 124 - tile cleared, workers frozen.
turn 125 - road Tripoli 7
turn 126 - move to Tripoli 1 (WF #6).
turn 127 - start clearing. 6 turns to clear.

Horse & Squid
turn 119 - move to Tripoli WF #9 (Bananatopia WF #12)
turn 120 - start clearing Tripoli WF #9. 6 turns to clear
turn 126 - tile cleared, workers frozen.
turn 127 - road Tripoli WF #9.
turn 128 - move to Tripoli 6 (WF #3) or Tripoli 2 (WF #5)
turn 129 - start clearing. 6 turns to clear.

Dan & Git
turn 119 - 4 turns left to clear Big Bend 3 (WF #4)
turn 122 - tile cleared, workers frozen.
turn 123 - road BB3.
turn 124 - move to Big Bend 4 (WF #7)
turn 125 - start clearing. 6 turns to clear.
turn 130 - tile cleared, workers frozen.
turn 131 - road BB4.

Gang of 3 (MrWIA, EVC & Dejon)
turn 119 - Mining Lux 6 (WF #3).
turn 120 - Mine Tripoli 4 (WF #7)
turn 121 - Start mining Tripoli 7 (WF #8). 2 turns to complete.
turn 122 - Mine done, workers frozen.
turn 123 - Mine Banana 3 (WF #4).
turn 124 - Move to Tripoli 3 (WF #4).
turn 125 - start ming Tripoli 3 (WF #4). 2 turns to complete.
turn 126 - Mine done, workers frozen.
turn 127 - Mine Tripoli WF #9 (Bananatopia WF #12) after Horse & Squid have roaded.
turn 128 - Mine Tripoli 7 (WF #8).
turn 129 - Mine Big Bend 6 (WF #3)
turn 130 - Mine Big Bend 3 (WF #4)
turn 131 - Mine Big Bend 4 (WF #7) after Dan & Git have roaded.

Mark & Otto
turn 119 - Road Lux 6 (WF #3).
turn 120 - Move to Mingapulco WF #15 (shared by HoD, Karina & Lux).
turn 121 - start clearing. 6 turns to clear.
turn 126 - tile cleared, workers frozen.
turn 127 - road Mingapulco WF #15.
turn 128 - Move to Mingapulco 1 (WF #6).
turn 129 - start clearing. 6 turns to clear.
turn 134 - tile cleared, workers frozen.
turn 135 - road Mingapulco 1 (WF #6).

rush
turn 119 - start Mining BFC WF #19 with Spink.

Spink

Panag


I'll add the other stuff in a bit.

MoI E_T

Last edited by E_T on 22-09-2003 at 00:32

	21-09-2003 23:14									#10
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

How is the Worker/Settler pump going to work in Lux? If we want 2-turn growth then we'll need at least 3 irrigated tiles, and right now we only have 1. If no other tiles are irrigated the fastest we can get is 4 turn growth from Lux.

	21-09-2003 23:26									#11
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

I'm still examining that, Trip. The thing is, to get the best out of the pump, especially while the GA is in effect is to Irrigate tiles that we have already mined. It would be nice to have irrigated tiles that have a bonus sheild. Also, we have to look at what tiles it can use (i.e. not needed by other cities) before we can make that full desision.

The first build from it, will likely be a settler, while we are looking at the full options. But the main priority has been to get thing set up for the GA, so that we can take as much of an advantage from it.

We shall see, is All I can promice at this point in time.

MoI E_T

	22-09-2003 00:19									#12
	Full PM-box? Change here!

I just think that tailoring the tiles to what we want to get from the cities would be a better way to go about things. But all in time, as you said.

Something that's rather interesting I think... GWT has been a Republic for at least 10 turns now while CGN is still in Despotism. I'm surprised GWT hasn't traded Republic yet.

	22-09-2003 00:59									#13
	Increase Your PM Length

GWT doesn't feel pressured to do so; they don't know that we have our own Galley heading over there (if it make it).

Maybe GWT is planning a war against CGN and doesn't want to give them a governmental advantage? Maybe CGN has way too many units for The Republic to be of any use to them? Maybe they are at war? Too many "maybe's"

	22-09-2003 01:02									#14
	Put an end to popups!

Well, GWT recently (within the past 20 turns, that is) got Engineering from CGN, so unless thing degenerated since then I doubt things could be too bad between them.

One more lucky coin flip and we'll be able to find out for ourselves before too long...

	22-09-2003 01:07									#15
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How do you know this? Did GWT say that they got it from CGN?

	22-09-2003 01:09									#16
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quote: Originally posted by BigFree How do you know this? Did GWT say that they got it from CGN?

Where else would they have gotten it from?

	22-09-2003 01:13									#17
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

Uhh....researching it? Just a guess. Their economy could have been a lot better than ours for a longer period of time.

Your assumption also begs the question: What did GWT give up for Eng if in fact GWT got Eng from CGN? We might both assume that it is not The Republic because CGN is in a state of Depostim.

	22-09-2003 01:17									#18
	Got spare money?

Problem is that they were researching Republic up until 390 BC (turn 109). Unless they researched Engineering between then and when we made contact (like 4 turns) then they must have gotten it from CGN.

They may have given CGN some of the late-era Ancient techs for Engineering. Or maybe it was a gold deal.

	22-09-2003 02:21									#19
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Your assuming they made the switch to Republic after having researched it. The Republic could have come from a hut. They could have researched it much earlier but did not switch until just recently. Too many if's for me to jump to conclusions.

	22-09-2003 02:23									#20
	Increase Your PM Length

They couldn't have gotten it from a hut, since you can't get techs from huts after the Ancient Era.

Also, their GNP jumped a great deal while their MFG dropped the turn before they switched... which suggests they were squeezing their economy in order to get it done a turn early. After that they were Republic and far above us. So I think it's fairly conclusive.

	22-09-2003 02:44									#21
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

I know you can't get non-ancient era techs from a hut. But I cannot rule out getting an ancient era tech even though you are researching a Middle Age tech....Even so, that does not preclude GWT from getting The Republic a long while ago(pre-Middle Ages) and just recently switching governments. They could have been working on Eng for a while.

So, lets assume then that GWT and CGN have Eng AND that CGN has The Republic, but hasn't switched to it as of yet to to large number of troops and large populations with little or no happiness causing factors available to those large cities. That would be a good reason to stay with Despotism.


The "squeeze" you refer to could have been to simply aquire gold for either upgraes or a gold deal with another team.

I'm not saying that your guess is entirely wrong; only that there are oftern other factors overlooked when making predictions/guesses. I mean It COULD be that CGN got Eng as their "free" tech and traded it to GWT for some upper level Ancient era techs; but I cannot be 100% sure about that, even if GWT TOLD us that.

	22-09-2003 02:56									#22
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Just like we can't be sure CGN killed Grenouille and that GWT has been beating on Firaxis.

Sometimes you just have to say "okay, this is most likely, so this is what I assume has happened."

	22-09-2003 07:23									#23
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Maybe CGN doesn't want to go into anarchy while they are at war. It would effect moods of captured cities, possibilities of culture flips, Unit productions for the war, ect....

E_T

	22-09-2003 11:26									#24
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quote: Originally posted by E_T Maybe CGN doesn't want to go into anarchy while they are at war. It would effect moods of captured cities, possibilities of culture flips, Unit productions for the war, ect.... E_T

I was thinking that exact same thing while reading through the threads. If they are at war and suddenly go into anarchy they wouldn't be able to do much if their fortunes suddenly changed and they had to pump out some quick units, etc. CGN could still have Republic and just be waiting for a good opportunity to make the switch. We'll hopefully find out soon enough. * fingers still crossed for PoA

	22-09-2003 13:20									#25
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quote: Originally posted by Trip Sometimes you just have to say "okay, this is most likely, so this is what I assume has happened."

And sometimes you accept you do not know what happened, and keep an open mind to the possibilities.

	22-09-2003 18:01									#26
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

Both of you stop now before this gets out of hand AGAIN.
We need to remove the tongue smiley from both your option lists as well....

In other news- I would have to concur that a few more defensive troops might be in order. Our biggest threat to being defeated here lies in a massive counterattack at one of their cities, although I think it is also reasonable that we could gain the upper hand when AGC shows up if such a grind-down did occur.

	22-09-2003 20:31									#27
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

quote: Originally posted by E_T Maybe CGN doesn't want to go into anarchy while they are at war. It would effect moods of captured cities, possibilities of culture flips, Unit productions for the war, ect....

That's fine and dandy, but Grenouille is dead.

	23-09-2003 02:27									#28
	Increase Your PM Length

According to the UN forum, Firaxis is dead now, as well...

	23-09-2003 05:48									#29
	Increase Your PM Length

What is the saying? A picture is worth a 1000 words?

	23-09-2003 06:02									#30
	Increase the size of your Attachments

Now that we have contact with CGN, what do we do with the Galley?

CGN has Eng and Feud, but lacks The Repblic. We can likely make a sale there. We can also assume that CGN is likely researching The Republic right now as well. GWT may have set a high price for it.

I plan to hold the save for a while before playing it. Things need to be discussed. Also, Monday Night Football is about to begin. Raider's at Bronco's.