21-09-2003 03:17									#1
	Bananatopia, how big can we get it to?? Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

There has been some speculation from other team members as to how big we can get Bananatopia up to, especially during our GA. First off, some basic Information:

Bananatopia is at 12% corruption/waste.
Bananatopia is on the Banana River, so it can get to size 12.
Bananatopia has a Temple.
Bananatopia shares tiles with Apolyton, Mingapulco, Luxinvicta, Big Bend & Tripoli. All of these cities will be doing things and using some of those tiles.
We currently have 2 Luxuries.

Currently, Bananatopia is at size 7 and we are running at 10% Lux tax, mostly for it's benifit. At the current rate of Lux tax and it's Corruption factored in, it has 2 trade devoted to Happiness, which is enough for a size 7 city.

When it does grow to size 8, it will require 1 additional Lux trade and have the requirement of 28 RAW Trade for it to generate that additional Lux. At this point in time, before we get to the GA, we will have to use all but 1 of the river tiles (that are currently available) to generate the required trade. The city is schedualled to grow in 4 turns (from turn 118).

Here is a chart of how much Lux will be generated with the minimum of raw trade:

code:

Raw Trade    10% Lux    10% Lux w/Market
   17           2              3
   28           3              4
   40           4              6
   51           5              7
   62           6              8

code:

Size    Wout/Temple    W/Temple
3            1             0
4            2             1
5            3             2
6            4             3
7            5             4
8            6             5
9            7             6
10           8             7
11           9             8
12          10             9

	21-09-2003 03:23									#2
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

Can you make a chart of how much raw/net commerce Bananatopia makes at certain sizes using river tiles, GA and non-GA?

	21-09-2003 09:54									#3
	Support Apolyton

Trip, I have updated the Bananatopia Entry in the "To the Core" Thread. That gives you the amount of corruption/waste for several ranges. Making a chart for all of the possible combinations of WF to get specific trade/sheild numbers is beyond what I can do (and I think anyone really wants to read), but the lost amounts for specific ranges should be enough for you (or anyone else who wants to do a sim) to know what they will have avalable for them. Part of this is that I am still trying to figure out why the city tile has a total of 6 trade {I know that 2 are from city, next to river; 1 is for republic & 1 is for over size 6, but were did the other 2 come from?? Is it also from Republic and it gives me a % increase, like a market/lib/bank/Uni does to the Net trade, or something else??}

We know that the Sims aren't accurate as to the corruption/waste of some of the cities, so you can just check your sim against what it should (and will) be and make any compairisons.

MoI E_T

Last edited by E_T on 21-09-2003 at 10:00

	21-09-2003 17:13									#4
	Get a bigger avatar today!

quote: Originally posted by E_T I am still trying to figure out why the city tile has a total of 6 trade {I know that 2 are from city, next to river; 1 is for republic & 1 is for over size 6, but were did the other 2 come from?? Is it also from Republic and it gives me a % increase, like a market/lib/bank/Uni does to the Net trade, or something else??} MoI E_T

Interestingly, Banana was on 3 trade when it was pop 6, and jumped to the 6 trade immediately upon reaching pop 7 (350 BC).

I have just had a look at a different game I had saved right before changing to Republic. For a size 7+ city on a river I have only 4 trade in Republic. I am playing as the Egyptians, so perhaps it is the Commercial trait that makes the difference.

I do know that 2 are from a city, next to river, 1 from Republic and 1 for being 6+. There may be an additional +1 for being Commercial and over 6 (maybe even over 5) or perhaps this is +2??? I might be able to check this if only Poly's damn search function worked.

Note also that Poly is on 5 trade - 1 from city, 1 from being capital, 1 from being Republic and 2 unaccounted for. If 1 is for being a city over 5 with the Commercial attribute that helps, and if +2 for Commercial 5+ city that explains both, but that seems a bit much...

	21-09-2003 17:25									#5
	Got spare money?

Went to CFC for this....

quote: Originally posted by LKendter It looks like commecial gets +3 gold at size 7, and +5 gold at size 13. That is a hugh difference.

(sic)

WOW! Looks like they really beefed up Commercial for the 1.27f patch!
Still doesn't explain the difference for Apolyton, but maybe the changes made were the above HUGE bonuses for cities over 7 and over 13, and also +3 for the capital instead of just +1.

Either way - this could make a helluva difference...

EDIT: Have been testing with another saved game of mine, this time as the French (Comm & Ind). I found that by adding and building workers, cities size 6 had 3 trade when not on rivers (1 base, +1 Republic), but 6 trade when they were size 7 and above. I cycled back and forth between size 6 - trade 3 and size 7 - trade 6 for several turns.

Even more interestingly, however, was that when I dropped my capital below size 7, it did not lose the 6 trade before I started building workers. I dropped it down to size 2 before giving up.

This was at 1170AD in my game. When I loaded the game a time later, at 1430AD - still in Republic, my cities now had only 5 trade where there was not a river and they were size 7+. I have no clue how to account for this difference now apart from noting that both saves were played in v1.21f of PtW, and so loading up in v1.27f may have introduced a random element.

Going to look at the save for the ISDG before we made Republic, all cities not on rivers had only 1 trade except Apolyton which had 3. This would make sense if we got the 1 trade for having a city and +3 trade in the capital instantly. We only see 3 trade total due to Despotism's effect of reducing by 1 the resources/food/trade you get from each square where you get 3+ of any one of these in one square.

From this I could tentatively conclude about Commercial civs that

• the Commercial trait gives your Palace city +3 trade, not the usual +1
  
• cities size 7+ get an extra 3 trade
  

	22-09-2003 01:06									#6
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

The game is a little buggy. I know that if you settle a new city, which causes the corruption calculations to be re-calculated for every city, those new calculations are not applied to the other cities until the WF is adjusted by the player in those cities or the cities grow or drop in population causing the WF to be adjusted automatically.

As far as having more or less commerce from certain tiles, before corruption factors, in different games with the same circumstances....well, that's just a bug.

	22-09-2003 05:39									#7
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

quote: Originally posted by BigFree The game is a little buggy. I know that if you settle a new city, which causes the corruption calculations to be re-calculated for every city, those new calculations are not applied to the other cities until the WF is adjusted by the player in those cities or the cities grow or drop in population causing the WF to be adjusted automatically.

Are you sure it's not just a case of the game waiting for a certain moment to recalculate things like that? I know when you get another lux (say through negotiations), the happinesses of everyone doesn't update until you adjust the wf (even if you don't actually change anything - just click on the city screen) or the next turn. Seems perfectly reasonable to me - no recalculations yet as they are in a certain order with other things (pop growth, production etc. ) until you change something yourself.

However, +3 gold for the capital and 7+ cities for Commercial civs seems to be what we have and is well worth noting.

quote: As far as having more or less commerce from certain tiles, before corruption factors, in different games with the same circumstances....well, that's just a bug.

I'm inclined to agree with you here.

	22-09-2003 07:23									#8
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

quote: Originally posted by MrWhereItsAt Are you sure it's not just a case of the game waiting for a certain moment to recalculate things like that?

Well, sort of....

The game recalculates when the WF is adjusted and that happens when you lose pop, gain pop, or manually adjust the WF. I think the game should not wait till then to recalculate, it shoud do so at the begining or end of every turn. Lets suppose you have two people playing the same turns, and one goes inot a city screen to play with the WF, he's apt to lose some commerce every so often because of this tinkering. I don't think the game should behave this way.