24-09-2003 04:47									#1
	Attention Magic Players: Regarding Platinum Angel Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

A new card from Mirrodin:


Platinum Angel (7)

Artifact Creature - Angel

Flying
You can't lose the game and your opponents can't win the game.

In its heart lies the secret of immortality.

4/4


What were they smoking when they designed this?

	24-09-2003 07:18									#2
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It looks broken, but again, it depends on the context.

First of all, if a player can whip out fast mana, which is mainly Type I, this is going to be much worse than games where mana is slow.

Secondly, since it's an artifact creature, you can target it with any number of spells and effects such as Crumble, Steal Artifact, and Control Magic.

	24-09-2003 08:22									#3
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Hell even in T2 there's more than enough artifact hate to make the card little more than a delaying action.

	24-09-2003 08:29									#4
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This is the one I would be worried about though:

Card Name: Isochron Scepter
Color: A
Cost: 2
Type: Artifact
Rules Text: Imprint — When Isochron Scepter comes into play, you may remove an instant card with converted mana cost 2 or less in your hand from the game. (The removed card is imprinted on this artifact.)
2, T: You may copy the imprinted instant card and play the copy without paying its mana cost.

	24-09-2003 09:51									#5
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There are some cards that have a profound impact on the board even if they are dealt with very quickly. Take Triskelion, for example. Even if you kill it rapidly, it'll still be able to shoot off 3 points of damage divided any way you like. Or it can block as a 4/4 once, put damage on the stack, and then shoot its 3 damage somewhere else.

Platinum Angel is not one of those cards. Rather, it will only get its advantage slowly. 4 power means it doesn't even kill you particularly fast. And 4 toughness means it dies to a lot of stuff, like Electrostatic Bolt in the 1 mana slot.

Conclusion? If you have no answer, yeah, Platinum Angel is unstoppable. But if you've got answers in your deck, then it's really not so bad. Moral: Play answers in your deck!

	24-09-2003 12:08									#6
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That's a cool scepter.

Counterspell, anyone?

I agree with snowfire. That's why my sliver decks have disenchants, just to deal with Humility.

	24-09-2003 19:26									#7
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quote: Originally posted by Ben Kenobi That's a cool scepter. Counterspell, anyone?

I was thinking Dark Ritual.

I also like Mindslaver.

	25-09-2003 04:38									#8
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Mindslaver is just insane. I myself like Psychogenic Probe, to deal with landcyclers.

I was a little more worried about the Angel until I read the entire card list and noticed that Creeping Mold, Shatter, and Detonate are all in Mirrodin. Not to mention the non-reprint artifact killers.

	25-09-2003 08:05									#9
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quote: 2, T: You may copy the imprinted instant card and play the copy without paying its mana cost.

Dark Ritual gets you three Black for the price of 2 colourless.

It works out to be the same as a black Llanowar elf.

With counterspell, you get 2 colourless to counter any spell, anytime you want.

What does mindslaver do?

	25-09-2003 08:14									#10
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quote: Originally posted by Ben Kenobi Dark Ritual gets you three Black for the price of 2 colourless. It works out to be the same as a black Llanowar elf. With counterspell, you get 2 colourless to counter any spell, anytime you want. What does mindslaver do?

I agree, counterspell is much more useful... Oh, just think of the places you'll go...

Heh, and try to disenchant it? Counterspell!

	25-09-2003 08:24									#11
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Counterspell is probably the spell to store. Instead of the need to have two islands sitting there just to bluff your opponent, now any two unused mana point will make him think long and hard to do something big.

What about Lightning Bolt?

	25-09-2003 08:28									#12
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You're missing the truly evil thing to stick in a Scepter. Having a spell countered for free every turn is bad, but not game. However, stick a Memory Lapse in... not only will it counter the spell, but you lose your draw. You can't cast ANYTHING. You've gotta cast at least 2 spells that turn, and you're still losing a draw...

Conveniently enough, they rotated both Counterspell and Memory Lapse out of 8th. There's no way they would have printed that Scepter otherwise, methinks.

Sticking a Holy Day or Fog into the Scepter is pretty fun too. Infinite damage prevention.

And any cantrip, like Guided Strike or Fire/Ice, will turn it into a cheaper Jayemdae Tome.

Another fun Mirrodin card is Soul Foundry. Imagine sticking a Clone into one of those in a big multiplayer game.

	25-09-2003 09:07									#13
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Hang on, no counterspell in 8? So what's the purpose of a blue deck now, just control?

	25-09-2003 11:33									#14
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quote: Originally posted by Ben Kenobi What does mindslaver do?

It let's you play your opponent's turn for him.

Card Name: Mindslaver
Cost: 6
Type: Legendary Artifact
Rules Text: 4, T, Sacrifice Mindslaver: You control target player's next turn. (You see all cards that player could see and make all decisions for the player. He or she doesn't lose life because of mana burn.)

	25-09-2003 19:59									#15
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quote: Originally posted by FlameFlash Hang on, no counterspell in 8? So what's the purpose of a blue deck now, just control?

So blue sucks in Type II in this edition.

	25-09-2003 23:12									#16
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What do you guys thing of this combo: Power conduit + Decree of Silence + Riptide Replicator or another creature?

	26-09-2003 01:52									#17
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quote: You're missing the truly evil thing to stick in a Scepter. Having a spell countered for free every turn is bad, but not game. However, stick a Memory Lapse in... not only will it counter the spell, but you lose your draw. You can't cast ANYTHING. You've gotta cast at least 2 spells that turn, and you're still losing a draw...

Snowfire:
Yes, a much better idea than counterspell.

All you would need is to play either Arcane Laboratory or Winter Orb and then you have the game. Looks like I found a new card for my lockdown deck.

DD: That's brutal, if you can take your opponents turn for him.

Can you post the card descriptions?

	26-09-2003 03:35									#18
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UR: Blue is weaker, but it's not at "sucks" level yet. Mana Leak is in Type II, which makes splashing Blue for counters better, although you'd obviously rather have the straight-Counterspell in mono-blue. Blue also has some other evil tricks going for it.

I mean, for starters, Boomerang is still around. Boomerang in an Isochron Scepter is unstoppable bounce every turn, and that's pretty neat. Weenie Blue is actually not bad with Mirrodin, since they reprinted Curiosity for some good card-drawing, plus new Equipment means that even Blue can get Green-level broken creature boosters. Pair up a Phantom Warrior, Curiosity, and a Bonesplitter and you're all set to go. Veldaken Archmage allows you to draw crazy amounts of cards with cheap artifacts. Blue also has all sorts of weird combos. A friend of mine has a deck- well, 2 decks really- that can generate infinite Ornithopters. The blue-based version puts an Ornithopter in a Soul Foundry, has out an Aphetto Alchemist (T: Untap target artifact or creature), and Intruder Alarm (whenever a creature comes into play, untap all creatures). Whenever the Foundry makes a 'thopter, the Alchemist untaps, which can then untap the Foundry, which can then make another Ornithopter... pair this with Black for some Nim, and you have arbitrarily huge power on them (Nim get +1/+0 for each artifact in play).

(There's also a Red/White verson that uses Atog and Dross Scorpion. The Scorpion untaps an artifact everytime an artifact creature dies, and so you feed a 'thopter to the Atog, untap the Foundry, and repeat for a gigantic Atog.)

	26-09-2003 07:39									#19
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That's pretty neat.

Though when I play blue, I would love to mess with the other side, not go in for a bash-your-face-in run

	26-09-2003 19:11									#20
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Amen, UR... That was the entire point of blue in my mind. Phantasmal Terrain, Psychic Venom, counterspell, control magics...

That's what my blues are all about.

	26-09-2003 19:35									#21
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quote: Originally posted by Ben Kenobi DD:Can you post the card descriptions?

Power Conduit
Artifact
2
T, Remove a counter from a permanent you control: Choose one — Put a charge counter on target artifact; or put a +1/+1 counter on target creature.

Decree of Silence
Enchantment
6UU
Whenever an opponent plays a spell, counter that spell and put a depletion counter on Decree of Silence. If there are three or more depletion counters on Decree of Silence, sacrifice it.
Cycling 4UU
When you cycle Decree of Silence, you may counter target spell.

	26-09-2003 19:44									#22
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Don't like Decree of Silence.

Sure the Power Conduit/Decree of Silence combo is nice, but all you need is an opponent with a burn deck and all his shocks in his hand and there goes Decree of Silence.

	26-09-2003 19:46									#23
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What is a charge counter, BTW?

	26-09-2003 21:02									#24
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quote: Originally posted by FlameFlash What is a charge counter, BTW?

Something like this:

Riptide Replicator
Artifact X4
As Riptide Replicator comes into play, choose a color and a creature type.
Riptide Replicator comes into play with X charge counters on it.
4, T: Put an X/X creature token of the chosen color and type into play, where X is the number of charge counters on Riptide Replicator.

	26-09-2003 23:23									#25
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Ah.

I think I'm going to have to look at 8th edition, that's for sure.

	26-09-2003 23:38									#26
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quote: Originally posted by FlameFlash Ah. I think I'm going to have to look at 8th edition, that's for sure.

It's a rare in Onslaught.

	27-09-2003 11:42									#27
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Regardless, you should look at Eighth Edition. It rocks.

	27-09-2003 14:10									#28
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Methinks it's all getting a tad too complicated.

	27-09-2003 22:29									#29
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Can anyone give me a little help on modding this deck? I cut my teeth in the Onslaught block so building a non-Tribal deck is a little foreign to me. The only element that I'd like to stay is the Broodstar.

	27-09-2003 23:05									#30
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Hmm... I'd say that's actually my least favorite deck in some ways of the precons.

The Steel walls should be replaced by Bottle Gnomes or Yotian Soldiers unless EVERYONE in your area plays goblin rush decks. And you already have 4 Bottle Gnomes in your deck. Nim Shriker is fine, though.

Myr Retriever is cute, but better if you've got some weird combo you're trying to protect so it can go fish back parts your opponents have blown up.

Frogmite sucks. Play any morph from Onslaught instead over him. At absolute best, when you open with two artifact lands, he's Grizzly Bears. Obviously, replacing him with an artifact over a morph might be better, to keep the deck's theme.

Lodestone Myr is also fun. He's good on his own with just a lot of artifacts around, I guess, although the best thing is abusing him with things like Howling Mine and Winter Orb.

Myr Enforcer is solid as cheap commons for some (comparativley) fast muscle, but you'll eventually want to replace him.

Thirst for Knowledge & Thoughcast are both solid, could probably stick more in. Assert Authority is poo though. Just use Mana Leaks from 8th.

Irradiate, while in flavor... Terror is cheaper, and probably better. If you're playing a black deck, well, toss it to a Thirst for Knowledge.

The Tooth & Scale are pathetic compared to equipment. Try sticking a Bonesplitter in to replace them.

As for what this deck wants to be: I think that what the deck is clearly missing is Veldaken Archmage. That, a bunch of cheap artifacts, and a Broodstar should be bad times for your opponent. A rough sketch:

4 Veldaken Archmage (card drawing)
2-3 Broodstar (finisher)
? Megatog (finisher)

4 Aether Spellbomb
4 Pyrite Spellbomb
4 Steel Wall

(cheap artifacts, they draw cards with the Archmage out and the Spellbombs cycle to find him when he isn't)

3 Crystal Shard
(defense, to keep your opponents tapped low so you can't bounce their big creatures; also to bounce your Steel Walls and mana-Myrs endlessly after blocking to save them, replay them, and then draw more cards)

4 Some combination of Thirst for Knowledge & Thoughcast
(to find the Archmage)
4 Mana Leak
(we're playing blue, darn it)

And some other stuff you have that seems like it would work.

Mana base:
4 Iron Myr
4 each of Blue Artifact Land, Red Artifact Land
~18 Islands, maybe some off-colored artifact lands tossed in gratituously.

That'd be my major reworking of the deck. Of course, if you don't have 4 Archmages, it's probably not worth bothering. The problem with this deck is what to do when you don't draw an Archmage. There isn't any really good creature tutor at the moment... well, Fierce Empath I guess, but that won't get the Archmage.