26-09-2003 08:52									#61
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quote: Originally posted by Q Cubed as for the great leap forward? i doubt it would have ever occured had there been no opium wars, no introduction of communism into east asia, and no crazed drive to modernize and catch up to the west.

They wouldn't have had to have a man-made famine. China had a natural famine every other year. Say what you will about the murderous stupidity of the Chinese Revolution, it saved more lives than it took, simply by abolishing China's bi-yearly natural famines.

	26-09-2003 08:55									#62
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quote: Originally posted by Vesayen Your culture sucks, mine is better

	26-09-2003 14:31									#63
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Interesting. Did you draw it on your computer or scan it in?

	26-09-2003 14:49									#64
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quote: Originally posted by Comrade Tassadar

Looks like a Brancusi. Actually, looks like Brancusi's portrait of James Joyce.

	26-09-2003 15:03									#65
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quote: Yes, but by imperialism, most social scientists mean a very specific form of imperialism, capitalist imperialism, which conquered the world slightly over 100 years ago. No other imperialism ever came close, and they aren't existant today, so there's really no point in struggling against them.

'Capitalist Empirialism' is nonsence. It wasn't the emperialism of capitalism, it was European Emperialism, envigorated by a new economical engine, capitalism, to replace the elderly mercantilism. There is a very much strong connection between Spain's new world conquests, and Victorian world-wide expansion. It was the same emperialism of old, AS ALWAYS backed by economical incentives, but capitalism wasn't special at that, either.

quote: by Sandman: Sorry, but this doesn't make much sense. You still seem to be labouring under the belief that my quote is somehow related to morality. And what is 'this element of liberalism' you're talking about?

That's my problem, too, but sort of backwards. How does reality reflect on morality, and vice versa?

	26-09-2003 15:10									#66
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the lowermost group of symbols.. rather phallic... the rest: irritating.

"authority: question"

	26-09-2003 15:22									#67
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quote: Originally posted by Vesayen I just went to my first relative anthropology class.....

Suggest you complete the course before condemning the subject. Because I binned a lot of subjects in my teens and am having to re-examine them in my 30's.

quote: Originally posted by Vesayen because the new generation decides it would rather work a cash register at Sears then run around the rain forest half naked and die of typhoid at the ripe old age of 35.........

You are saying a rain forest dweller is literate and numerate enough to operate a cash register???

(Thnks - barcodes - hmmm...)

Maybe. I doubt it though. For one thing, working at a checkout is more physically demanding than living in the rain forest. Also, what prolongs the life expectancy isn't working in a "modern" economy, it's the health care that takes care of premature death.

I've cut this post way short - let others have their rant.

	26-09-2003 15:28									#68
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erm without working you won't have the medicine.

	26-09-2003 15:35									#69
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With clean water and hygienic living conditions you won't die of typhoid.

You think there aren't any old nomads?

	26-09-2003 18:34									#70
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it depends.

bump.

	26-09-2003 19:09									#71
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quote: Aren't there specialist restaurants serving raw, live octopus in Korea?

forgot about those. hm.. they also have it as a side dish.

quote: Besides which, salmon is very tasty 'uncooked'- as Scots and Swedes could also tell you.

lachs? i suppose.

quote: Beef carpaccio too, and steak tartare....

never had that, but we've established that westerners are barbarians.

	26-09-2003 20:23									#72
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quote: Originally posted by Che Say what you will about the murderous stupidity of the Chinese Revolution, it saved more lives than it took, simply by abolishing China's bi-yearly natural famines.

Yeah, maybe in some Communist-apologists' dreams ...

The wholly man-made famine which resulted from the wildly irresponsible policies of the CCP during the Great Leap resulted in the largest famine in the history of man. The typical famines China routinely experienced were smaller by orders of magnitude.

	26-09-2003 21:09									#73
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quote: Comrade Tassadar has attached this image:

Looks like Picaso's "Man masterbating while playing Asteroids"

	26-09-2003 21:50									#74
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quote: 'Capitalist Empirialism' is nonsence. It wasn't the emperialism of capitalism, it was European Emperialism, envigorated by a new economical engine, capitalism, to replace the elderly mercantilism. There is a very much strong connection between Spain's new world conquests, and Victorian world-wide expansion. It was the same emperialism of old, AS ALWAYS backed by economical incentives, but capitalism wasn't special at that, either.

Spanish imperialism was primarily about plundering precious natural resources, particularly gold and silver. Victorian (capitalist) imperialism was fundamentally different, plundering markets and destroying competition. Which is definitely a more recent phenomenon.

quote: Yeah, maybe in some Communist-apologists' dreams ... The wholly man-made famine which resulted from the wildly irresponsible policies of the CCP during the Great Leap resulted in the largest famine in the history of man. The typical famines China routinely experienced were smaller by orders of magnitude.

But the GLF resulted in far less casualties since 1948 than what happened to capitalist India (before 1948, the countries had comparable casualties from famines). Every several years, India's famines amount to the single massive famine China had since the commies took over.

I'm not a fan of the CCP, but they were better than the Nationalists.

	26-09-2003 21:59									#75
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Bah. It's supposed to look like Korean

	26-09-2003 21:59									#76
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quote: Spanish imperialism was primarily about plundering precious natural resources, particularly gold and silver. Victorian (capitalist) imperialism was fundamentally different, plundering markets and destroying competition. Which is definitely a more recent phenomenon.

right, but it was the same european emperialism. Which continued all the time. Think about the mercantilist emperialism between those two eras.

	26-09-2003 22:03									#77
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quote: Originally posted by Azazel There is a very much strong connection between Spain's new world conquests, and Victorian world-wide expansion. It was the same emperialism of old, AS ALWAYS backed by economical incentives, but capitalism wasn't special at that, either.

The only connection between the two is that the previous version of imperialism provided the money to start capitalism. Spanish, French, Portugese, etc., imperialism was about plunder. Capitalist imperialism was about opening new markets for capital to invest in.

	26-09-2003 22:05									#78
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quote: Originally posted by Azazel right, but it was the same european emperialism. Which continued all the time. Think about the mercantilist emperialism between those two eras.

The you're looking at forms and dismissing essences. You might as well say European feudalism and European capitalism were identical because they were both European.

	26-09-2003 22:08									#79
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quote: right, but it was the same european emperialism. Which continued all the time. Think about the mercantilist emperialism between those two eras.

Well, I'd classify both styles of imperialistic policies (Spanish/Portuguese/French and English/Dutch) mercantilistic in their own ways. I'm not sure what you mean.

	26-09-2003 22:11									#80
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Emperialism is primarily a geo-political phenomenon. It was it that caused the main damage and devastation throughout the world, the economical systems were just various ways in which the european states exploited their empires. The synthetical separation would imply that there was breaks or something between them. OF COURSE THE NATURE OF EMPERIALISM CHANGED. noone claims otherwise. But European Emperialism as a phenomenon predates the Enlightenment.

	26-09-2003 22:21									#81
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quote: Bah. It's supposed to look like Korean

eh? howso? the circles are a letter, yes... but they're in the wrong place, since you can't have two at the bottom like that. and then you have two other letters, like the e on it's side... but it's oriented wrong. or the c that's also on its side. but that's also oriented wrong....

it looks nothing like korean, tass...

	26-09-2003 22:26									#82
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quote: Originally posted by Ramo Well, I'd classify both styles of imperialistic policies (Spanish/Portuguese/French and English/Dutch) mercantilistic in their own ways. I'm not sure what you mean.

emperialistic policies changed of all powers changed as economic systems and theories evolved. Your point is kinda void in that. What I meant is that calling only the Victorian era emperialism 'emperialism' is incorrect, and therefore, emperialism predated the enlightment and it's ideas.

	26-09-2003 22:26									#83
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quote: Originally posted by Azazel Emperialism . . .

How can I take your opinion seriously if you refuse to even spell the word correctly?

	26-09-2003 22:30									#84
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Typos happen.

	26-09-2003 22:31									#85
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It should be spelled that way though. Empire-Emperialism.

	26-09-2003 22:32									#86
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but typos are rarely persistent.

	26-09-2003 22:35									#87
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quote: emperialistic policies changed of all powers changed as economic systems and theories evolved. Your point is kinda void in that. What I meant is that calling only the Victorian era emperialism 'emperialism' is incorrect, and therefore, emperialism predated the enlightment and it's ideas.

I don't call only Victorian era imperialism "imperialism." I only said that capitalist imperialism should be considered distinct from non-capitalist forms of imperialism, as they were fundamentlly different beasts.

	26-09-2003 22:35									#88
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Oh, crucify me for not knowing how it's spelled.

	26-09-2003 22:36									#89
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All you had to do was look at how everyone else spelled it.

	26-09-2003 22:41									#90
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quote: I don't call only Victorian era imperialism "imperialism." I only said that capitalist imperialism should be considered distinct from non-capitalist forms of imperialism, as they were fundamentlly different beasts.

Yes, the processes by which they operate are different, but in the case of European domination of the world, the one naturally flowed into the other. Therefore, European Imperialism wasn't a child of the Enlightenment.