26-09-2003 00:33									#1
	The Republic deal with CGN Increase the size of your Attachments

CGN has sent the 180 gold+ 6 gpt on this turn to us. They really want to do this deal now. Should we poll this or should the Consuls decide this issue now? Should we make them wait an additional turn regardless?

quote: [05:38] miccofl: Good morning, seems I am the only one around here that is awake or not in the morning commute. We enter our green time in less than an hour and a half and I would like to get a few more people to vote before we play our turn so we can get these deals going. I will try and get the turn to you before your green time is up. [05:39] miccofl: No sign of your galley, we hope that is because you moved it out of sight. [07:08] * SL3 (SL3@cgn-10864E9E.columbus.rr.com) has joined #isdg-Embassy1 [10:05] miccofl: The turn belongs to Apolytonia [10:06] miccofl: We included 180 gold and 6 gpt in the diplomacy screen [10:06] miccofl: hopefully your polling is done or close [10:07] miccofl: the sea only ROP has also passed [10:20] * miccofl (miccofl@cgn-28768D31.se.client2.attbi.com) Quit (Connection reset by peer) [10:25] * miccofl (miccofl@cgn-28768D31.se.client2.attbi.com) has joined #isdg-Embassy1 [10:25] * ChanServ sets mode: +oq miccofl miccofl [10:40] * SL3 (SL3@cgn-10864E9E.columbus.rr.com) has left #isdg-Embassy1 [12:22] BigFree: Sorry, I wasn't really here. [12:23] miccofl: I figured you would log the message and see it [12:23] BigFree: yep [12:23] BigFree: Our polling is not done however [12:24] BigFree: It will have to wait until next turn I believe [12:24] miccofl: You still have 3 1/2 hours of green time left [12:24] BigFree: Though, I have just logged on, I will check our forums [12:24] miccofl: you have a % of voters requirement? [12:24] BigFree: no [12:24] BigFree: its more like a time requirement [12:25] miccofl: our polls are still open, but there are not enough active votes left to defeat the measures

	26-09-2003 01:44									#2
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They are VERY eager, it seems. Either get more out of it or wait a turn.

	26-09-2003 03:15									#3
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seems subtle hardballing worked

part two of the chat is in the correspondence thread:

http://www.apolyton.net/forums/show...503#post2363989

Last edited by Master Zen on 26-09-2003 at 03:30

	26-09-2003 03:22									#4
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One comment:

No offense here, but I think we tried to sound a bit overly friendly here:

quote: [14:49] [MasterZen] or rather discuss it, perhaps tonight. BF and me are the only ones with any semblance of authority at this moment online [14:50] [miccofl] fair enough [14:51] [BigFree] I'd say tech or gold [14:51] [MasterZen] yeah [14:51] [BigFree] but tech wont be likely for while [14:51] [BigFree] only so many research paths right now [14:52] [miccofl] true, best to pursue the gold ammount at this time [14:52] [BigFree] so gold will prolly be the ultimate answer [14:52] [BigFree] how much? [14:52] [BigFree] Im not sure [14:52] [BigFree] maybe it would be best if you guys could make an offer [14:53] [BigFree] but we are not isolationists [14:53] [miccofl] I'll see what we can come up with [14:53] [BigFree] and are willing to sell it [14:53] [BigFree] Just between you and I, I think CGN will be our best trading partner [14:53] [BigFree] if not for the fact of our availablities [14:54] [BigFree] because we both maintain irc channels [14:54] [miccofl] communication is the key to successful negotiations [14:55] [BigFree] yep [14:55] [BigFree] and quick repsonses also help [14:55] [BigFree] at least not like a week in between

First of all, it is not a sure thing that we'd want to sell them our map yet so it is very premature to affirm that we will in the future, because should we decide not to, then they'll start to get pissed at us because we told them we would.

Trying to mask things with overt friendliness (like the "we are not isolationist" bit) will sound a bit odd, and any smart team will think that it's not our true intentions. We are very cynical when other teams try to woo us, so there's no reason to believe they wouldn't take us as hypocrits by saying these things.

In short, please don't overstep the tone of the chats as it might lead to undesireable consequences later on, and if someone is negotiating, please don't put things on the table that the negotiator hasn't agreed to. That's why we discuss things in our own ISDG room simultaneously.

Thanks.

	26-09-2003 03:38									#5
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Remember that trying to squeeze every penny out of every deal is NOT always the best answer. If we give them a good deal and show trust, they will do so also. We NEED an ally on the other continent. That is either these guys or GWT....

	26-09-2003 04:05									#6
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quote: Originally posted by donegeal Remember that trying to squeeze every penny out of every deal is NOT always the best answer. If we give them a good deal and show trust, they will do so also. We NEED an ally on the other continent. That is either these guys or GWT....

I agree.

50 or 100 more gold won't make a big difference for us in the long run, but getting a reputation as being hard to deal with will definitely hurt us.

	26-09-2003 04:07									#7
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Yes donegeal.

Also, we will have to sell our WM soon anyways. GCA has it. We will be whipping their butts shortly. GCA will sell their souls for any kind of help, inlcuding selling/trading away our WM. We need to beat them to that punch. That is what was on my mind when I made it sound like to CGN that we would be willing to sell our WM for a price. That and making them feel comforatable abotu them selling us theirs.

	26-09-2003 04:23									#8
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quote: Originally posted by Master Zen part two of the chat is in the correspondence thread:

Ah. You left me out in summing up our Ministers. But then again, I work in a secret area.

	26-09-2003 04:25									#9
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I agree with Bigfree; but as MZ points out, let's be careful to not over-friendly ourselves too soon. That might actually have the opposite effect- the days of "Apolyton must be dumb" that got us this far on our own continent are over. With the smashing of GCA, we WILL be watched.

Let's be reasonable, forthright and friendly, but not jump to be the friendly guy.

Remember, we are doing a VERY delicate dance with these two and we need to continue it as long as possible. Dating tip: Every time you smile at one pretty girl, you give the other a rude glare. Don't smile at one or the other too much, too soon.

	26-09-2003 06:36									#10
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quote: Originally posted by Fried-Psitalon Dating tip: Every time you smile at one pretty girl, you give the other a rude glare. Don't smile at one or the other too much, too soon.

Aw! But what if you like to smile at EVERYone?

But I guess we do all need to learn something about dealing with other civs, particularly with CGN and GWT, who we don't have a history with (not a civ-wide one anyway). Be cautious at all times when chatting - be friendly, but if you are unsure about anything - make certain you do not say too much. Apologise for not being too forthcoming if you feel like it - there's no harm in being polite, but all info is still useful info, so beware.

This is what I plan to do would I to ever engage with any team in chatting - give out info I know for certain I am allowed to, but apologise where I am unsure at all until I can check it.

	26-09-2003 06:44									#11
	Got spare money?

Just read the chatlogs. The Republic deal sounds good if the Consuls and Togas are happy with it.

I'm going to try to be in the channel with these guys more...

	26-09-2003 07:38									#12
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quote: Originally posted by BigFurryMonster Ah. You left me out in summing up our Ministers. But then again, I work in a secret area.

"And BFM works in Area X which basically involves trying to find all possible information about other civs short of cheating. So, where are you going to found that new city from the settler you built 2 turns ago?"

	26-09-2003 11:53									#13
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I'm in agreement on this.

While we COULD have as tactical advantage having their map, and not giving them ours, they will be jealous of us for doing so, and will eventually find the means to aquire the map from GWT or possibly GCA. Once they do, we lose whatever sale we could have made, and we also have already lost trust by withholding it.

Trading our WM to them, however, gives them quite an advantage over GWT who is currently mapping themselves. If we did trade maps, we should ask them not to sell our WM to GWT ... let them know that we want to sell it to them ourselves.

As for contacts, they'll have to buy contact with CFC. We need to set up a fair price. We won't sell contact with GCA, of course.

I'm in favor of a Republic sale. The price that has been negotiated is fine with me. Let's not try to squeeze them too hard here. We're looking for a long term trade partner, not a one-time trade advantage.

--Togas

	26-09-2003 11:55									#14
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Move forward with the WM and Republic trades.

	26-09-2003 12:20									#15
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quote: Originally posted by Trip Move forward with the WM and Republic trades.

Yes sir, Mr. Minister of Foreign Affairs!

	26-09-2003 12:23									#16
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quote: Originally posted by Master Zen Yes sir, Mr. Minister of Foreign Affairs!

Didn't I tell you last time to call me Emperor?

	26-09-2003 12:30									#17
	Inflate your Upload Space

quote: Originally posted by Trip Didn't I tell you last time to call me Emperor?

Shaddap and keep working the mines of Dreadnaughtica

	26-09-2003 12:33									#18
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quote: Originally posted by Master Zen Shaddap and keep working the mines of Dreadnaughtica

Don't make me disband, you know I will.

	26-09-2003 12:36									#19
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The lastes offer we have given to CGN is to trade The Repblic for their WM and then we said we would discuss selling our WM to them. What kind of price do we want? I say 300 gold.

Or, put it like this: They give us their WM+300 gold for our WM+The Repbublic. Does that sound good? We attack to this a "no map trade" clause that says CGN cannot sell/trade/gift their WM to GWT before we sell/trade our WM to GWT.

	26-09-2003 12:38									#20
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The Republic for 300 gold deal was already worked out I believe (just not ratified by both sides). It was certainly negotiated to the point of being acceptable to both sides.

Miccofl mentioned that they would be willing to give their WM + MORE gold for ours... since they realize we're on both sides of the lake and they're not. Plus we have more to see. So maybe their WM + 50 gold for our WM.

	26-09-2003 12:39									#21
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quote: Originally posted by BigFree Or, put it like this: They give us their WM+300 gold for our WM+The Repbublic. Does that sound good? We attack to this a "no map trade" clause that says CGN cannot sell/trade/gift their WM to GWT before we sell/trade our WM to GWT.

sounds good to me.

--Togas

	26-09-2003 12:48									#22
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We don't want to squeeze everything out off the deal that we can Trip. We want a long term partner. We want someone willing to give us deals that do not only favor them. It will pay off in the long run if we don't look greedy.

	26-09-2003 15:26									#23
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Btw... related issue from another thread. If CGN has our worldmap, they'll know about our war with GCA as soon as they see cities changing hands or being razed (not to mention our military camp).

Just thought I'd bring that one up.

	26-09-2003 20:55									#24
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quote: Originally posted by Arnelos Btw... related issue from another thread. If CGN has our worldmap, they'll know about our war with GCA as soon as they see cities changing hands or being razed (not to mention our military camp). Just thought I'd bring that one up.

Good point. Assuming the WM sale goes through (which I support as detailed above), perhaps it would be wise to tell them straight away about the war instead of withholding it. But I'll leave that tidbit up to the more experience FAM team.