21-09-2003 03:01									#181
	Inflate your Upload Space

this the old (like 2 week old) Gold-for-republic deal with CFC (you know, the one where they agreed to give us their extra cash for our upgrades)

quote: I can't believe I missed this. Honorable Master Zen, and citizens of Apolytonia: It is our pleasure to supply Apolyton with what it needs to continue the good war against GCA. Though we apoligize for the delayed response, we assure you that the gold we agreed upon will be sent on time. Also, we will poll the NAP renewal ASAP. ~Octavian X > Greetings, friends from Fanatikou > > Due to a bumbling mistake on my part, I accidentally sent the original > tech/gold deal, to the wrong address (I had sent it to civfanatics.com > instead of .net). Although Octavian and our team had agreed to it in > chat, it is best that we have an agreement in writing so it can also be > forwarded to Mongoose. > > On a different note, our Non-Agression pact expires on turn 117. We > would be glad to extend it if your team agrees also. > > Finally, our planning continues on schedule as promised earlier. We > trust that GCA's withdrawl from your lands has eased the pressure on > you, and also trust that it was timely enough as to not offer much > resistance to us when we strike. > > Best regards and apologies on my behalf for failing to deliver this in > a timely manner. > > -Master Zen > Deputy Foreign Affairs Minister of Apolyton > > > --------------------- > --------------------- > > Apolyton - Fanatikou Technology/Gold trade Agreement > > > In order to speed up preparations for our joint campaign against our > common enemy, GCA, as well as ensure convergence in Apolyton and > Fanatikou's technological position and world relations, our two teams > hereby agree on the following trade agreement: > > Apolyton agrees to trade the following to Fanatikou: > > - The technologies of Republic and Engineering once obtained > > Fanatikou agrees to trade the following to Apolyton: > > - 180g given immediately after receiving Apolyton's offer > - 60g given 5 turns later > - The technology of Monotheism once researched > > Furthermore: > > - Fanatikou shall by no means agree to any technology trade or gifting > to GCA. - Fanatikou agrees to a 10 turn moratorium before agreeing on > any type of trade with GWT - Apolyton agrees to ensure the survival of > CFC by gifting a city should CFC find itself on the verge of defeat. - > Apolyton agrees to share information regarding war buildup and > preliminations. > > > We await your prompt reply on this matter. May skill and luck reward > you in your war efforts until the time both our nations may move > forward together in victory. > > -Master Zen > Deputy Foreign Affairs Minister of Apolyton > > -Octavian X > Lord President of the Imperial People's Government of Fanatikou

	25-09-2003 04:39									#182
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

Part 1 of Chat with CGN

quote: Session Start: Wed Sep 24 14:34:15 2003 Session Ident: #isdg-Embassy1 [14:34] * Now talking in #isdg-Embassy1 [14:34] * Topic is 'Welcome Apolytonians' [14:34] * Set by miccofl on Wed Sep 24 12:31:11 [14:34] BigFree hello [14:34] miccofl Hello BigFree [14:34] Asuka Welcome! [14:35] BigFree I'm hoping that our assigned diplomats show up soon [14:35] BigFree they were told between 30 minutes from now to 90 minutes from now [14:35] BigFree IIRC [14:35] BigFree Is that right Trip? [14:36] Trip I think so [14:36] miccofl I have all night, most of my cabinet will be in and out over the course of the evening [14:36] BigFree ok [14:37] BigFree I myself work in the evenings. I'm in California, so evening is approaching slowly. [14:37] Trip I will be gone for the rest of the evening probably in about a half hour or 45 minutes [14:38] miccofl Well we have some time, Webring seems to be asleep [14:38] brian_the_bold hello [14:38] brian_the_bold sorry im late [14:38] * Asuka (me@cgn-16603A7B.nblnetworks.fi) has left #isdg-Embassy1 [14:39] miccofl one in, one out [14:39] * Asuka (me@cgn-16603A7B.nblnetworks.fi) has joined #isdg-Embassy1 [14:40] brian_the_bold so who is the dipolmatic reps from apolyton? [14:41] Trip Togas is our FAM [14:41] Trip Arnelos is our ambassador to you guys [14:41] Trip however, neither of them seem to be around at the moment [14:41] * WhiteBandit (whitebandi@cgn-207A913D.lsanca1.elnk.dsl.genuity.net) has joined #isdg-Embassy1 [14:41] WhiteBandit ahoy [14:41] brian_the_bold hello [14:42] Trip WB is another one of those useless FAM guys, I don't know what he does :P [14:42] Asuka Welcome to StP/CGN IRC! [14:42] WhiteBandit i sit and look pretty [14:42] * Asuka idles himself again. [14:42] brian_the_bold who is asuka? [14:42] Trip ah right, leave it to the MOW to do all the real work :P [14:42] Trip Asuka is Rasbelin [14:42] Asuka AKA Rasbelin, Rasbey, etc. [14:42] brian_the_bold nevermind now i know [14:42] Trip Raspberry [14:42] Trip :P [14:42] brian_the_bold LOL [14:42] Asuka Yes, Raspberry too for that matter. [14:43] Trip [14:43] Trip alright, anyways [14:43] brian_the_bold well most times its easyer to deal with the mow [14:43] Trip 3 people are here now, so I guess we can start things [14:43] brian_the_bold it do this or else [14:43] Trip the first thing on the agenda seems to be possible trades between Apolyton and Netatolia [14:43] brian_the_bold yes [14:44] brian_the_bold are you in the med age ? [14:44] Trip we can discuss things now before the FAM arrives, where we can take care of the official business [14:44] Trip yes [14:44] Trip it appears we have one tech you do not [14:45] miccofl and we do not yet know if we have any that you do not [14:45] BigFree We thought you may have had contact with us on your turn [14:45] Trip I don't believe you do [14:46] Trip we have Republic, which you do not [14:46] brian_the_bold Do you have, and have you had contact with the webs? [14:46] Trip we do have contact with them [14:46] Trip you seem to have both Medieval techs that we have, so I don't believe any strait tech-for-tech trades are possible [14:47] brian_the_bold so you have had contact for a few turns then [14:47] Trip yes, not for very long [14:48] Trip at our team we were discussing the possibility of trading to you Republic in exchange for your world map [14:48] miccofl So what do you propose? [14:48] Trip or if that wasn't possible, perhaps for a sum of gold [14:48] brian_the_bold the the first order of bissness is what do you want for republic? [14:48] miccofl I hate these lags [14:49] brian_the_bold yah [14:49] Trip well, like I said, we would most likely be willing to accept a Republic for WM trade [14:49] brian_the_bold we would not be opposed to trading world maps [14:49] Trip if not that, then we would be willing to trade it for gold [14:50] brian_the_bold but i belive we would have to have yours in return [14:50] miccofl We would have to put it to a vote [14:50] brian_the_bold and we would put in some gold too [14:50] brian_the_bold and yes we would have to vote on it [14:50] Trip okay [14:50] Trip would you have gold available in its place? [14:50] Trip if we were to simply sell the tech [14:50] miccofl how much would you want? [14:52] Trip our initial offer would be 300 [14:52] BigFree The actual cost, in commerce(beakers), is much higher [14:53] Trip not to mention it's practical value [14:53] miccofl Perhaps a lump sum and a gpt would be acceptable? [14:53] Trip possible [14:53] BigFree I believe so [14:53] Trip what values would you suggest? [14:55] miccofl 180 up front and 6 pt? [14:55] miccofl I will still need to put it to a vote [14:55] Trip that sounds like a possibility [14:56] Trip as with your team we will need to discuss things before officially ratifying any deal [14:56] miccofl I will put it to a vote then [14:57] Trip as shall we [14:57] Trip second order of business [14:57] Trip future trades [14:57] BigFree ask about GWT having Republic and why didn't they get it from them? [14:58] BigFree *you [14:58] BigFree we see the importance of trading [14:58] miccofl as do we [14:59] miccofl our issues with the Webs started after we traded with Firaxis for a city [15:00] Trip traded for a citiy? [15:00] BigFree its very difficult to imagine anyone getting ahead by not trading; that one lone non-trading partner will shrivel it would seem. [15:00] miccofl which was done because they agreed not to trade a tech we traded them and then traded it anyway [15:00] Trip Firaxis had traded the tech? [15:00] brian_the_bold no the webs [15:00] Trip ahhh [15:01] Trip but what does that have to do with Firaxis? [15:01] Trip aside from their impending doom :P [15:02] BigFree lol [15:02] miccofl We traded the Webs a tech with the understanding they would not trade it, they traded it. They were at war with Firaxis and felt that our posession of the city violated our neutrality - we told them otherwise [15:02] BigFree oh, I see [15:02] BigFree it would seem to be their own fault for trading against a deal [15:03] miccofl that is how we saw it, but they have been unagreeable ever since [15:03] Trip I guess that would be why they wouldn't want to hand over Republic :P [15:03] miccofl we were going to trade them Feudalism [15:04] Trip but speaking of techs [15:04] Trip perhaps we can work out a deal for our current research [15:04] miccofl perhaps [15:05] Trip Currently we're working on Invention [15:07] miccofl If we conclude a deal on Republic, we would be open to researching Monotheism in hopes of a trade for Invention. [15:08] Trip okay [15:08] Trip we can discuss this after the Republic trade is concluded then [15:08] miccofl good [15:08] Trip let's see... what else [15:08] Trip I have to leave in about 10 minutes [15:09] Trip I was talking with miccofl earlier about a possible "history trade" [15:09] Trip where we could both retell the tales of the continents [15:10] miccofl We have some web pages outlining some of our history [15:11] BigFree nice [15:11] brian_the_bold there very nice [15:11] BigFree links? [15:11] brian_the_bold micco does awsome work [15:11] Trip hehe [15:12] Trip we may also want to work out some sort of agreement regarding passage through each others' waters [15:12] Trip since we don't know how long it will be before that issue arises, since we're not all that familiar with the geography :P [15:12] miccofl I will have to review the content before giving the links out [15:12] BigFree sure, no problem [15:14] BigFree And, just to be clear, it was GWt against Firaxis and CGN against Gren? [15:14] miccofl We might be able to work something out on ROP [15:14] miccofl yes [15:14] BigFree thats what is sounded like at 1BC [15:14] BigFree *it [15:14] miccofl The history pages were Grenouille's undoing [15:14] brian_the_bold except the gren were there own worst enemy [15:14] BigFree relly? How so?? [15:14] Trip their undoing? [15:15] * BigFree think apolyton should not read the history pages or ask for links again..... [15:15] BigFree 12:4D1 [15:15] Trip LoL [15:15] brian_the_bold just a sec [15:16] Trip so BF, how many Galleys do we have again? :P [15:16] miccofl They gained access via a security glitch (one member) he posted the link and realized his mistake - ok, things happen. But they claimed no one else saw them, but my server logs said otherwise [15:16] miccofl none of their other members would admit to it so we considered it an act of espionage [15:16] Trip I bet you were pleased to see that [15:17] BigFree OMG, thats deplorable [15:17] BigFree I'd want to know who, so that they were never accepeted onto our team [15:17] * MasterZen (raguil@cgn-8DCDE8D.prodigy.net.mx) has joined #isdg-Embassy1 [15:17] MasterZen greeting [15:17] MasterZen s [15:17] brian_the_bold hello master zen [15:18] Trip another wishy-washy FAM guy [15:18] BigFree MZ is an officail of our FAM [15:18] * MasterZen slaps Trip around with a huge trade barrier! [15:18] Asuka Welcome to StP/CGN IRC! [15:18] * Asuka goes back to readin his book. [15:18] Trip hehe [15:18] brian_the_bold LOL [15:18] miccofl We only got the one name, the rest were all French IP's on a buiried webpage on my miccofl.net server [15:18] MasterZen Trip just likes to poke his nose in everyone's business (especially the FAM) [15:18] BigFree can you divulge that name? [15:18] Trip it's all part of my grand takeover scheme [15:19] miccofl I can, but I would have to look it up as I don't remember [15:19] BigFree ok, I would appreciate that [15:19] Trip well, I bet they regret it now :P [15:19] BigFree HAHA [15:19] BigFree no kidding [15:19] Trip they got to experience history first-hand [15:19] * WhiteBandit tries something [15:19] miccofl They fought well, but lived up to the French reputation [15:19] * WhiteBandit (whitebandi@cgn-207A913D.lsanca1.elnk.dsl.genuity.net) has left #isdg-Embassy1 [15:20] * WhiteBandit (whitebandi@cgn-207A913D.lsanca1.elnk.dsl.genuity.net) has joined #isdg-Embassy1 [15:20] WhiteBandit doh, i guess Asuka only unidles for new people ;P [15:21] miccofl Hello Master Zen [15:21] MasterZen hello [15:21] Trip not much iron over there :P [15:21] brian_the_bold over where? [15:21] Asuka Welcome to StP/CGN IRC, MZ. [15:21] Trip on that hunk of land you call home [15:22] Asuka WB: I only rape little newbies when it's full moon. [15:22] Asuka No reason to pester more experiences users. [15:22] Asuka [15:22] BigFree What's the french reputation? [15:22] miccofl defeat [15:22] Asuka [/off-topic hijack] [15:22] Trip well, I must be going now, so farewell [15:22] * Trip is now known as Trip[gone] [15:23] BigFree ah [15:23] miccofl later Trip [15:23] MasterZen yay, he's gone! [15:23] BigFree real life Rep then [15:23] BigFree LOL [15:23] Trip[gone] don't forget, I see all [15:23] miccofl We offered to take them all as members but not one of them applied [15:23] * Asuka is now known as Rasbelin [15:23] * Rasbelin (me@cgn-16603A7B.nblnetworks.fi) Quit ("We are never so defenseless against suffering as when we love, never so forlornly unhappy as when we have lost our love object or its love." - Sigmund Freud) [15:24] * Rasbelin (me@cgn-16603A7B.nblnetworks.fi) has joined #isdg-Embassy1 [15:24] BigFree hmm [15:24] BigFree they were scorned [15:24] miccofl ok, where were we? [15:24] BigFree or felt that way [15:25] BigFree ah [15:25] BigFree talking about Galley exploration [15:25] MasterZen now that Trip's gone we can actually talk about meaningful diplomatic things [15:25] miccofl By our constitution we require a 2/3 majority vote on ROP's but I will propose it [15:28] miccofl Question, not that it matters in the overall scheme of things, but who killed CDG? It has been a subject of much debate. [15:28] BigFree Does the ROP's include coastal waters? [15:28] miccofl another issue I will need to bring up [15:31] MasterZen I think ROPs at this stage should be limited to coastal waters [15:31] MasterZen there's really no need for land ROPs [15:31] miccofl That would be a much easier plan to get passed [15:31] MasterZen exactly less touchy [15:32] MasterZen It would almost definitely pass on our side [15:32] brian_the_bold you have no idea [15:32] MasterZen well, we both have 2 huge continent which neither of us knows. A sea ROP would allow each other's galley's to explore equally. It's a tradeoff [15:33] miccofl Since we haven't seen the turn yet you have us at a slight disadvantage, where did we make contact? [15:33] MasterZen your galley [15:33] * SL3 (SL3@cgn-10864E9E.columbus.rr.com) has joined #isdg-Embassy1 [15:33] MasterZen we saw a lone galley of yours right after we managed to cross [15:34] miccofl North center on the minimap then? [15:34] MasterZen haven't seen any cities or units on land yet so I really don't know [15:34] MasterZen yes, more or less north-center [15:34] miccofl ok [15:34] MasterZen I think your galley's name was Endevour or something like that... [15:35] miccofl Hey SL [15:35] miccofl SL is our new Vice Premier and my Chief of Staff [15:35] SL3 Hello everyone sorry I'm late [15:35] MasterZen hello SL [15:36] BigFree Yes, it was endeavor [15:36] BigFree had to check screen shot [15:37] miccofl I will propose a naval-only ROP and put it to a vote [15:37] * Arnelos (Arnelos@cgn-22C61098.tc.ph.cox.net) has joined #isdg-Embassy1 [15:37] Arnelos finally! [15:37] MasterZen good [15:37] Arnelos BF wrote isdg_Embassy1 rather than isdg-Embassy1 [15:37] BigFree Arenlos is our Offical Ambassador to CGN [15:37] BigFree no I didn't [15:38] miccofl Hello Arnelos [15:38] Arnelos whatever [15:38] Arnelos hello [15:38] * E_T (e_t_1@cgn-16F944BD.net907.fl.sprint-hsd.net) has joined #isdg-Embassy1 [15:38] E_T THere we are.... [15:39] MasterZen finally the gang is here [15:40] Arnelos someone please fill me in [15:40] MasterZen yeah me too, I was a bit late myself [15:40] BigFree Uh, CGn decalred war on us! 12:4P1 [15:40] * E_T is now known as E_T_immitating_Bob_Veila [15:41] MasterZen yeah, the excuse was to liberate us from Trip [15:41] * E_T_immitating_Bob_Veila runs and hides..... [15:41] Arnelos We could use that, honestly [15:41] MasterZen hhaha [15:41] E_T_immitating_Bob_Veila Oh, well, it they want to liberate us from Trip, then it's o.k....... [15:42] * E_T_immitating_Bob_Veila is now known as E_T_imitating_Bob_Veila [15:42] MasterZen well, I heard that there was a gold-for-republic deal being discussed, and you were talking about the French [15:42] MasterZen don't know what else was talked about before [15:42] Arnelos how the devil are the French important to a gold for Republic deal? [15:46] Arnelos . [15:48] miccofl We discussed the trade of histories, present and future trade possibilities and a sea-only ROP [15:48] Arnelos ok, I just created an account on CGN. Miccofl, I've heard that you want us to have access to a forum embassy? [15:49] miccofl give me a min and you will have access [15:50] MasterZen I think I'll register too just in case [15:51] miccofl You should have access now [15:51] Arnelos ok, thanks [15:51] Arnelos where exactly do I go in the CGN forums to access the embassy? [15:51] Arnelos forget it, I found it [15:51] * Rasbelin walks off to do a few more babe thread posts. [15:53] miccofl Any of your team members that you wish to have access to it may have access, just let me know [15:54] Arnelos ok [15:54] MasterZen I am in the process of validating... [15:54] Arnelos so, I hear there was some brief discussion of perhaps a Republic for gold deal, perhaps a naval ROP, and a little exchanging of who wiped out whom (though I'm not clear what has and has not been shared each way) [15:55] miccofl of course if it generates too much spam I will have to make you a mod to clean it up [15:55] BigFree lol [15:55] BigFree we have no spammers.... [15:55] MasterZen I spam therefore I am [15:55] BigFree well...maybe MZ a little [15:55] miccofl We are still wondering who offed CDG [15:55] BigFree ah [15:55] BigFree that is a story to be told [15:55] BigFree MZ, you want the honor? [15:56] MasterZen long story actually [15:56] MasterZen fine [15:56] miccofl I'm sure [15:56] MasterZen well basically it comes down who "who made them lose" [15:56] Arnelos true... it's somewhat complicated [15:56] MasterZen basically a war started and CDG and GCA went at each other [15:57] MasterZen GCA had a pretty huge army [15:57] * Sashaddin (Whatisthis@cgn-21453901.tr.cgocable.ca) has joined #isdg-Embassy1 [15:57] miccofl Minister of Defense [15:57] MasterZen CDG well, let's just say that a despotic golden age doesn't really help much [15:57] Sashaddin Hello everyone [15:57] MasterZen hello [15:57] Rasbelin Hi again. [15:58] Sashaddin Any lurkers here, or is everyone active? [15:58] brian_the_bold im in [15:58] * Rasbelin doesn't admit anything. [15:58] MasterZen anyway, CDG was on the verge of defeat, well, in practical terms they were defeated, so they decided to forfeit the game in our favor since we were neutral in the conflict [15:58] brian_the_bold all hail our mighty warloard [15:58] miccofl Furloaf and Trip are logging [15:58] SL3 Greetings Apolytonians, unfortunately I have to go. I hope the discussion goes well with our nations and we can both benefit from friendship. [15:59] MasterZen so, they gifted us one or two cities they had left and asked us to finish the job so we did [15:59] miccofl later SL [15:59] SL3 I will read the chat log when I get back home, Bye all [15:59] miccofl Ha, I was right [15:59] * Rasbelin leaves. [15:59] MasterZen so technically we destroyed them (with their permission), but it was really GCA that did it [15:59] * Rasbelin (me@cgn-16603A7B.nblnetworks.fi) Quit ("We are never so defenseless against suffering as when we love, never so forlornly unhappy as when we have lost our love object or its love." - Sigmund Freud) [16:00] miccofl CFC had nothing to do with it? [16:01] MasterZen they were at peace too [16:01] miccofl We knew CFC and CDG got contact late as Veera doesn't know much about security [16:02] miccofl - requested contacts in public forum [16:02] MasterZen CFC was at war with GCA also [16:02] miccofl ah [16:02] miccofl I take it by "was" that they have resolved their differences [16:03] MasterZen They signed a cease fire a while back [16:03] MasterZen I think... [16:03] WhiteBandit they did [16:03] Sashaddin Any clear winner, or was it a standoff? [16:04] MasterZen you could say that GCA was having the edge [16:04] MasterZen they have a really nasty army [16:04] Sashaddin Swordsmen? [16:04] MasterZen yep [16:04] MasterZen and horses [16:06] * Panzer32 (Panzer32@cgn-3C867F12.N213.ResNet.QueensU.CA) has joined #isdg-Embassy1 [16:06] MasterZen they also got extremely lucky [16:06] Arnelos Panzer is another apolyton citizen [16:07] miccofl Hello Panzer [16:07] Panzer32 yeah, greetings to CGN! [16:07] Sashaddin Hi Panzer [16:08] brian_the_bold hello panzer [16:08] MasterZen so, we're also wondering about what happened in your continent

	25-09-2003 05:18									#183
	Get a bigger avatar today!

Part II of same chat:

quote: [18:08] [MasterZen] so, we're also wondering about what happened in your continent [18:09] * Kloreep has joined #isdg-Embassy1 [18:09] [miccofl] http://www.miccofl.net/Civ3/netatol...ry/history1.htm [18:09] [miccofl] enjoy [18:09] [miccofl] hope you're not on dial-up [18:09] [brian_the_bold] bet this will take a while to view [18:10] [MasterZen] but will make for a very interesting read [18:10] [miccofl] and was designed to be entertaining as well [18:10] [E_T_imitating_Bob_Veila] Damn, the pictures aren't downloading for me, must be my firewall [18:11] [Sashaddin] You're a carpenter Bob, you shouldn't have problems with walls [18:12] [MasterZen] btw, I just completed my registration at CGN [18:12] [E_T_imitating_Bob_Veila] I'm just imitating him, speaking of which, back to the project.... [18:12] * E_T_imitating_Bob_Veila . [18:12] [BigFree] very nice micofl [18:13] [miccofl] thank you, there are 4 pages total at this time [18:13] [miccofl] BigCrunch did a nice job with the text too don't you think? [18:15] [miccofl] MasterZen added to embassy forum [18:15] [MasterZen] thanks [18:15] [MasterZen] and great job with the history [18:15] [miccofl] thank you [18:16] [Arnelos] I'm still reading this thing [18:16] * MasterZen thinks someone from poly should do their own version.... [18:16] [Arnelos] between a call from my boss about the project I'm working on and reading this, I'm going to be busy for a little bit [18:18] [miccofl] I hate those boss calls - mine calls at the most inopportune times [18:18] [miccofl] like in the middle of our turn [18:19] [MasterZen] hehe [18:21] [MasterZen] sorry for being so inquiring but any reasons why GWT and Firaxis went to war? [18:21] * Sharpe has joined #isdg-Embassy1 [18:22] [MasterZen] welcome Sharpe (he's from poly) [18:23] [Sharpe] Hi! [18:23] [Sashaddin] Hi Sharpe! [18:23] [miccofl] Soren was not forthcoming with that information and all we got from the webs was that it had to do with a deal [18:23] [miccofl] Hello Sharpe [18:24] [miccofl] poor Firaxis, so out of their league [18:25] [miccofl] Soren made a mistake one time and sent us their in house PBEM [18:25] [miccofl] he was getting his clock cleaned [18:26] [MasterZen] hahaha [18:26] [MasterZen] I always got the impression that it was practically Soren himself playing this game [18:26] [Arnelos] miccofl - just finished your history. Good choice of music [18:27] [miccofl] they were suiciding a galley in search of the New World when they died [18:27] [miccofl] thanks [18:27] [MasterZen] death at sea... [18:27] [miccofl] their civ died - the galley probabbly would have made it otherwise [18:29] [MasterZen] oh well, 5 of us left now [18:29] [MasterZen] maybe the game will go faster now [18:29] [miccofl] back to the Webs/Firaxis problems, we suspect that the deal that was mentioned was a ruse and the war was really over iron but we have no definitive proof [18:29] [Sashaddin] It seems to be going slower now.... not faster [18:30] [MasterZen] sashaddin: yes, unfortunately [18:31] [miccofl] I wish CFC would get out of the hole, it makes working on the excel file a nightmare - it won't go negative and I have to calculate it manually [18:31] [MasterZen] iron usually starts most ancient age wars [18:31] [Sashaddin] Right Master Zen [18:32] [Arnelos] unless your team is called the "Glory of War", in which case your lack of iron prompts you bury you head in the sand (internal apolyton trash talk) [18:32] [MasterZen] hahahah, good one [18:32] [Arnelos] funny... it was GWT that had your source of Iron, MZ [18:33] * Kloreep has quit IRC [18:33] [MasterZen] they still do [18:34] [BigFree] LOL [18:34] [miccofl] are we missing something? [18:34] [Arnelos] like I said... you guys are Darekill's b*tches [18:34] [Arnelos] We have an inter-team game on Apolyton... GWT is one of the teams [18:34] [MasterZen] worse, you are Darekill's b*tches' b*tches [18:34] [MasterZen] 2nd rank b*tch. More humilliating [18:35] [Arnelos] MZ is one Foreign Affairs guy for "Glory of War", I am the Foreign Affairs guy for "Roleplay Team", etc. [18:35] [MasterZen] err, sorry Netatolians for our internal trash talking [18:35] [MasterZen] we just cant help it [18:35] * MasterZen pokes Arnelos [18:35] [Arnelos] anyhow, back to the ISDG [18:35] [miccofl] no prob, it just helps to know what the joke is [18:35] [MasterZen] aww [18:37] [MasterZen] I don't know what else needs to be discussed, anything else on your minds? we have prelimiary deals for tech and sea ROP and have shared a bit of our history with each other. Quite productive for an initial chat if you ask me [18:37] [miccofl] and now that he's gone and before I forget, many thanks and ®5000 to Rasbelin for setting up this secure channel [18:38] [miccofl] agreed MasterZen [18:38] [Arnelos] btw... I've been selected as the Apolytonian Ambassador to Netatolia... who shall I be working with from your side? [18:38] [miccofl] we discuss too much more and we will overload the forum servers [18:39] [miccofl] brian_the_bold is our Minister of State, I will appoint an Ambassador tomorrow sometime [18:39] [Arnelos] ok [18:40] [Arnelos] Togas is our Foreign Minister and MZ is his Deputy (along with ambassador to another team), for reference. [18:40] [miccofl] How many people do you expect to be using the embassy forum? [18:40] [Arnelos] not many [18:40] * Sashaddin asks himself "Who's that other team?" [18:41] [miccofl] it's no big deal to add them as I created a new user group for the forum [18:41] [MasterZen] me, Arnelos and Togas, and the consuls [18:41] [MasterZen] oh and that Trip guy [18:41] [Arnelos] unfortunately, Trip is already on there [18:41] [Arnelos] well, I believe MZ *was* our ambassador to CDG [18:41] [MasterZen] yeah, I'm like the plug-in guy [18:42] [MasterZen] chat here, chat there, ooh civ died, now you're ambassador here [18:43] [Arnelos] as for me, most of my work at Apolyton was during our single-player DG as President and some other offices. My only work here was deciding not to run for Consul at the start of the game, being gone for a few months, and serving as Deputy Consul for BF for 2 weeks before this job [18:44] [miccofl] Well we didn't need an ambassador to the Grenouille (obviously) and diplomacy was not one of Firaxis strong suits, brian has only had to deal with the webs for the most part so our ambassador to you will be our first [18:45] [BigFree] we will break him in slowly...;evilgrin; [18:45] [Arnelos] relations with Grenouille were THAT bad, eh? From your history, it seems you started a "war" pretty early? [18:45] [miccofl] I added Frustrated Poet at Trip's request and civman2000 since he had a link to the forum, do I need to remove them? [18:45] [BigFree] no [18:46] [MasterZen] we have an ambassor for each team, makes things easier [18:46] [MasterZen] I'm the GWT ambassador [18:46] [MasterZen] BigFree was the old CDG ambassador until he became Consul and now doesn't speak to us :P [18:46] [Arnelos] something like that [18:46] [BigFree] 12: 4P 1 [18:47] [Arnelos] except for the 2 weeks when BF was out of town and I filled in for him as Consul [18:47] [MasterZen] WB is ambassador to GCA and ZargonX (not here) with CFC [18:47] [MasterZen] and well, our FAM is Togas, you'll meet him soon I hope [18:47] * E_T_imitating_Bob_Veila is now known as E_T_Dinnertime [18:47] [miccofl] Grenouille didn't want to deal, they kept making offers that were only a good deal for them [18:48] [Arnelos] E_T is our Minister of the Interior [18:48] [BigFree] Gren got a one way deal out of the game! [18:48] [miccofl] How long have you had contact with GWT [18:48] [BigFree] They will do so differntly inhe nextI believe [18:49] [MasterZen] not much [18:49] [MasterZen] re: GWT [18:49] [miccofl] met in crossing? [18:49] [Arnelos] essentially [18:49] [MasterZen] yep [18:50] [Arnelos] galleys spotted each other [18:52] [miccofl] some of our members have a bet going on this, we were really hoping for a turn number [18:52] [MasterZen] ? [18:52] [Arnelos] MZ - of contact with GWT [18:53] [Sashaddin] My bet was on 12 turns [18:53] [miccofl] ® is our forum money, with it you can customize your persona here - people bet with them [18:53] [MasterZen] ahhh [18:54] [brian_the_bold] we also bet hevaly opn american football [18:55] [miccofl] yeah, college and pro - mongoose201 cleaned up last week ®3000 [18:55] [MasterZen] err... hate to disappoint you but I don't recall the exact turn we met :P [18:56] [brian_the_bold] kc is keeping me ahead in the r but not by much ... [18:57] [miccofl] they're going to be dissapointed - guess they will have to roll it over onto something else [18:58] [MasterZen] hehe [18:58] [MasterZen] but 12 is a bit too much though, so I think Sashaddin lost [18:59] [Sashaddin] Aw, too bad. [19:01] [miccofl] Thors_Enkel writes: sorry examinations [19:01] [miccofl] save 190BC send [19:01] [BigFree] cool [19:02] [miccofl] let's see if they caught GC sleeping [19:02] [BigFree] How many 'active' participants do you guys have in your forums for this game? [19:02] [miccofl] Lucky is from Germany [19:03] [miccofl] active? 12-14 [19:03] [BigFree] hmm [19:03] [miccofl] better than 50% at least [19:03] [MasterZen] hehe not bad, we have like 20 ourselves despite like 80 registered [19:03] [BigFree] we got like 30 + or - 20; denpending on time of school year [19:04] [MasterZen] although Trip counts as 5 [19:04] [BigFree] HAHA [19:04] [miccofl] LOL [19:04] [BigFree] What steps have you taken, if any, to increase participation? [19:05] [Sashaddin] Flogging, stoning and name-calling [19:05] [brian_the_bold] LOL [19:05] [BigFree] hehe, thats whatwe do to prune participation [19:05] [miccofl] that's despotism all right [19:06] [MasterZen] we threaten them with Ming [19:06] [miccofl] and then there was the jimmytrick debacle... [19:06] [BigFree] well, time for work for me [19:06] [BigFree] adios all [19:06] [MasterZen] cya [19:06] [Sashaddin] Bye, BF [19:06] [miccofl] later BigFree [19:06] * BigFree is now known as BigFree|AtWork [19:06] [brian_the_bold] by bigfreee [19:06] * BigFree|AtWork is now known as BigFree [19:06] * BigFree is now known as BigFree|AtWork [19:06] * BigFree|AtWork waves bye.... [19:13] [MasterZen] well unless anyone objects, I'm going to post the log of this chat in our private forum, I say this so we can consider the "official" part of the chat over, is this ok? [19:13] [miccofl] agreed

	26-09-2003 03:29									#184
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

Second chat with CGN regarding the republic deal:

Part I

quote: quote: [05:38] miccofl: Good morning, seems I am the only one around here that is awake or not in the morning commute. We enter our green time in less than an hour and a half and I would like to get a few more people to vote before we play our turn so we can get these deals going. I will try and get the turn to you before your green time is up. [05:39] miccofl: No sign of your galley, we hope that is because you moved it out of sight. [07:08] * SL3 (SL3@cgn-10864E9E.columbus.rr.com) has joined #isdg-Embassy1 [10:05] miccofl: The turn belongs to Apolytonia [10:06] miccofl: We included 180 gold and 6 gpt in the diplomacy screen [10:06] miccofl: hopefully your polling is done or close [10:07] miccofl: the sea only ROP has also passed [10:20] * miccofl (miccofl@cgn-28768D31.se.client2.attbi.com) Quit (Connection reset by peer) [10:25] * miccofl (miccofl@cgn-28768D31.se.client2.attbi.com) has joined #isdg-Embassy1 [10:25] * ChanServ sets mode: +oq miccofl miccofl [10:40] * SL3 (SL3@cgn-10864E9E.columbus.rr.com) has left #isdg-Embassy1 [12:22] BigFree: Sorry, I wasn't really here. [12:23] miccofl: I figured you would log the message and see it [12:23] BigFree: yep [12:23] BigFree: Our polling is not done however [12:24] BigFree: It will have to wait until next turn I believe [12:24] miccofl: You still have 3 1/2 hours of green time left [12:24] BigFree: Though, I have just logged on, I will check our forums [12:24] miccofl: you have a % of voters requirement? [12:24] BigFree: no [12:24] BigFree: its more like a time requirement [12:25] miccofl: our polls are still open, but there are not enough active votes left to defeat the measures

Part II

quote: Session Start: Thu Sep 25 14:42:34 2003 Session Ident: #isdg-Embassy1 [14:42] * Now talking in #isdg-Embassy1 [14:42] * Topic is 'Welcome Apolytonians ' [14:42] * Set by miccofl on Wed Sep 24 14:31:11 [14:42] [MasterZen] hello [14:42] [BigFree] he has an issue to discuss [14:42] [miccofl] Hey MasterZen [14:43] [BigFree] our polls usually are set to run 48 hours at a minimum [14:43] [MasterZen] BF was telling us about the republic deal [14:43] [BigFree] of course we can make emergency deals [14:43] [BigFree] but this is not exactlyu an emergency [14:43] [MasterZen] there's another issue though [14:43] [BigFree] MZ, go ahead [14:44] [MasterZen] most people on our team favored a republic-for-WM deal instead of gold [14:44] [MasterZen] because of this the voting is rather even, can swing both ways [14:45] [MasterZen] most of the people who have said "no" have said no not at a trade, but yes if it would have been in exchange for the map [14:45] [MasterZen] so I would assume that a republic for map deal would pass pretty quickly [14:46] [MasterZen] so, we could wait a bit and see if republic-for-gold passes, or we could start polling over republic-for-map and if the initial voting is overwhelming we could speed up things (usually votes that start overwhelimingly in favor end up in favor) [14:47] [miccofl] we had hoped for an exchange of maps, but I can poll for a Republic for map deal. [14:47] [MasterZen] I guess you guys should discuss this a bit [14:47] [miccofl] What would you consider a fair offer for your map? [14:48] [MasterZen] like I said most of the "no" guys have said they would vote yes over a map, and I assume that the "yes" guys will say yes too [14:49] [miccofl] I meant, if it comes to pass that we trade you our map for Republic, what would you consider a fair offer for your world map [14:49] [MasterZen] hmm, we'd have to ask the consuls and the FAM [14:49] [MasterZen] or rather discuss it, perhaps tonight. BF and me are the only ones with any semblance of authority at this moment online [14:50] [miccofl] fair enough [14:51] [BigFree] I'd say tech or gold [14:51] [MasterZen] yeah [14:51] [BigFree] but tech wont be likely for while [14:51] [BigFree] only so many research paths right now [14:52] [miccofl] true, best to pursue the gold ammount at this time [14:52] [BigFree] so gold will prolly be the ultimate answer [14:52] [BigFree] how much? [14:52] [BigFree] Im not sure [14:52] [BigFree] maybe it would be best if you guys could make an offer [14:53] [BigFree] but we are not isolationists [14:53] [miccofl] I'll see what we can come up with [14:53] [BigFree] and are willing to sell it [14:53] [BigFree] Just between you and I, I think CGN will be our best trading partner [14:53] [BigFree] if not for the fact of our availablities [14:54] [BigFree] because we both maintain irc channels [14:54] [miccofl] communication is the key to successful negotiations [14:55] [BigFree] yep [14:55] [BigFree] and quick repsonses also help [14:55] [BigFree] at least not like a week in between [14:55] [BigFree] 12: 4D 1 [14:55] [miccofl] Firaxis was always quick in response, the others... [14:56] [BigFree] I really wanted a chance to deal with them, but oh well [14:56] [miccofl] We tried to help them out, but it was too little too late [14:57] [miccofl] our war with Grenouille tied up too many units [14:57] [BigFree] wow [14:57] [BigFree] you were willing to war with GWT over Firaxis? [14:58] [MasterZen] over free copies of C3C wow! [14:58] [BigFree] LOL [14:58] [MasterZen] first in-game issue solved by out-of-game payment! [14:58] [miccofl] Well we weren't exactly going to go to war, but we were going to get in the way [14:58] [BigFree] ah [14:58] [BigFree] like a blockade [14:59] [miccofl] We gave them one of our cities, but they died before they could accept [14:59] [MasterZen] ouch [14:59] [BigFree] doh [14:59] [miccofl] that was the 2 day delay last turn [14:59] [BigFree] oh [14:59] [BigFree] that explains a lot [14:59] [MasterZen] the difference a turn makes... [15:00] [miccofl] The city that we were giving them was as far away from the webs as you could get [15:01] [miccofl] not very productive, but they were halfway accross the ocean at the time [15:01] * MasterZen thinks it was probably on our continent.. hahahaha [15:05] [miccofl] well, not that far [15:05] [BigFree] Have you guys tried sending any suicide Galleys? [15:05] [miccofl] We were going to when you showed up [15:06] [BigFree] LOL [15:06] [miccofl] now we will see if we can work out a map exchange before we cross if at all [15:07] [BigFree] It's such a hard choice to decide to risk a 30 SU or not on such a venture this early [15:07] [miccofl] It always helps to know where you are going before you leave [15:07] [BigFree] yep [15:07] [BigFree] there's still a l;ot of black stuff out there [15:07] [miccofl] I color it Netatolian Green for our screenshots [15:08] [miccofl] the black gets old [15:08] [BigFree] boy, does it ever [15:09] [miccofl] I run in 1600X1200 screen resoulution for the game, our tactical (world) map is 1850X1350 [15:09] [miccofl] zoomed out [15:10] [miccofl] it's about 750K - I pity the guys on dial-up [15:11] [miccofl] well, not really [15:11] * MasterZen has dial-up [15:12] [miccofl] I did to for the first 35 turns of this game [15:12] [miccofl] the upload time used to kill me [15:17] [BigFree] lol [15:17] [BigFree] I know what you mean [15:18] [miccofl] Now that I have cable, I can post our 27 screenshots in about 8 min [15:21] [BigFree] OMG [15:21] [BigFree] 27 [15:21] [BigFree] each turn? [15:21] [miccofl] yep [15:21] [BigFree] HAHAHA [15:21] [BigFree] **** that [15:21] [BigFree] Do you make the turn available to your team? [15:22] [miccofl] those that want it can play along in chat [15:22] [BigFree] how about after you have played it? [15:22] [miccofl] after we have played it we are done with it [15:23] [BigFree] We allow our team access to it after it has been officialy played and sent along [15:24] [miccofl] I have a list of people who want the turn, they get it every time - the rest either don't have PTW or don't have the time for that level of participation [15:31] [BigFree] ah [15:37] [miccofl] with the screens I post, they really don't need the save - they get everything other than F2-7,9 and 10 and can see it all as clearly as they could by playing it [15:37] [BigFree] thats a lot of work for you [15:37] [BigFree] or are you the only one to make the screens? [15:38] [BigFree] Are you the leader in perpetuity? [15:38] [miccofl] about 2-21/2 hours every turn depending on how many units have moved [15:38] [BigFree] Hows you govenrment set up? [15:38] [miccofl] I was just re-elected [15:38] [BigFree] congrats [15:39] [miccofl] Premier, Vice Premier Cabinet: Ministers of State, Interior, Defense, Science & Culture and Labor [15:40] [miccofl] How is yours set up? [15:40] [miccofl] all are elected positions BTW [15:41] [MasterZen] 3 consuls, minister or war, interior and foreign affairs [15:41] [MasterZen] each minister technically has a deputy [15:42] [BigFree] Only the Consuls are elected [15:42] [BigFree] the restare appointed by the Consuls [15:43] [MasterZen] I usurped my position [15:43] [BigFree] LOL [15:43] [MasterZen] actually the rest are appointed by the Ministers, not the Consuls [15:43] [MasterZen] since they work directly in the ministries [16:10] * brian_the_bold has joined #isdg-Embassy1 [16:11] [brian_the_bold] must have typed it wrong

	27-09-2003 01:49									#185
	Tired of ads?

Chat with GWT part 1:

quote: Session Start: Fri Sep 26 11:03:40 2003 Session Ident: #EvilGarden [11:03] * Now talking in #EvilGarden [11:03] * MasterZen changes topic to 'Apolyton - Webring Chat Room' [11:03] [GWT]feanor0815: hi too [11:04] BigFree: good afternoon/morning/evening; which ever it is. 12:4D1 [11:04] * Trip[class] (~trip@c-67-162-147-249.client.comcast.net) has joined #EvilGarden [11:05] Trip[class]: set the s mode at the very least :P [11:05] MasterZen: oh, no, Trip is here! run! [11:05] * MasterZen sets mode: +ps [11:05] Trip[class]: :P [11:05] Trip[class]: anyways, I have class, so byebye [11:06] MasterZen: is zayxus coming? [11:06] [GWT]feanor0815: dont know where he is [11:07] [GWT]feanor0815: perhaps i have to manage alone [11:07] MasterZen: he's in the #GoW room [11:07] * Zayxus (Zayxus@A26f4.pppool.de) has joined #EvilGarden [11:08] [GWT]feanor0815: yes but with his thoughts .. [11:08] Zayxus: hello [11:08] MasterZen: ok, we're all here [11:08] [GWT]feanor0815: ah [11:08] BigFree: hi [11:08] MasterZen: first of all, thank you both for coming [11:09] MasterZen: we basically just wanted a small chat to get to know each other and talk about some things [11:09] [GWT]feanor0815: thx for inviting [11:10] [GWT]feanor0815: think thats better cause our recent trade was a bit bumpy [11:11] MasterZen: yes, there was some misunderstandings on both our sides, hopefully our next deals will be easier [11:11] [GWT]feanor0815: hope too [11:11] MasterZen: well, we received your last message the other day [11:11] MasterZen: perhaps we should discuss that first [11:12] [GWT]feanor0815: ok is that way mono / invention ok for you ? [11:12] MasterZen: yes it is, however we have another idea that may interest you [11:12] [GWT]feanor0815: go on [11:13] MasterZen: well first of all we have assumed that after getting mono, your team will go for Chivalry, is that right? [11:14] [GWT]feanor0815: at the moment it seems to be the best [11:15] MasterZen: ok, well basically we had an agreement with CFC to supply us with mono. so, we were wondering if you'd like to change the deal to be chivalry (32) - invention (44) [11:16] [GWT]feanor0815: sounds good when will mono be available ? [11:16] MasterZen: apparently you will finish it first [11:17] BigFree: Though that is just an estimate [11:17] MasterZen: that means you don't have to trade it to us, only chivalry. [11:17] MasterZen: otherwise, it would be a waste of science [11:18] MasterZen: CFC had started on mono before we met you, that was the problem [11:18] [GWT]feanor0815: sorry for stocking but ihave to translate some words [11:18] MasterZen: sure, no problem [11:19] [GWT]feanor0815: estimate [11:19] Zayxus: Annahme? [11:19] [GWT]feanor0815: ah now i get it [11:20] Zayxus: (http://dict.leo.org/) [11:20] BigFree: We are not sure who will finish Mono first, but we think you will. [11:20] [GWT]feanor0815: think that would be a possible option [11:20] BigFree: It depends on how much you spend on research versus CFC [11:21] Zayxus: sorry for me, CFC? [11:21] [GWT]feanor0815: it would take us about 20 t [11:21] [GWT]feanor0815: Fanatic [11:21] MasterZen: yes, I think you'll get it faster [11:22] [GWT]feanor0815: the other civ on -you got a name for it ? [11:22] MasterZen: CFC - Fanatikou, GCA - Gamecatcher Alliance [11:23] [GWT]feanor0815: i mean name for your continent [11:23] MasterZen: "the continent" hehe [11:23] MasterZen: we haven't given it a name actually... [11:24] [GWT]feanor0815: dont remember ours if we have some ) [11:24] MasterZen: we call ours "the continent" and call yours "the other continent". Simple as that [11:25] [GWT]feanor0815: tc & toc [11:26] MasterZen: that brings us up to the next thing we wanted to discuss: bascically share a bit of our continent's histories with each other [11:27] [GWT]feanor0815: oh i could start [11:27] MasterZen: ok, go ahead [11:28] [GWT]feanor0815: first there were for Civs [11:28] [GWT]feanor0815: Netatolian you lately contacted [11:29] [GWT]feanor0815: and Firaxis and Grenouilles [11:30] [GWT]feanor0815: but they are gone [11:30] [GWT]feanor0815: **** phone rings second please [11:30] MasterZen: ok [11:31] [GWT]feanor0815: ok back [11:32] [GWT]feanor0815: We had to eliminate Firaxis cause they got the only iron in range [11:33] BigFree: they did not want to share it? [11:33] [GWT]feanor0815: Netatolian crushed Grenouilles for waht reason ?? we dont know [11:34] MasterZen: I think they don't like French people :P [11:34] [GWT]feanor0815: they talked in mail about making bad trades and spying but ..... [11:34] [GWT]feanor0815: hehe [11:35] [GWT]feanor0815: but no not in RL [11:35] MasterZen: ah yes, they told us about the spying [11:36] Zayxus: there was only 1 iron to share, sorry for it is so in civ3 [11:36] MasterZen: yes, we understand [11:36] MasterZen: sometimes you have to do what you have to do to get the iron [11:37] [GWT]feanor0815: what was that spying ? units in their borders ? [11:37] [GWT]feanor0815: yes and firaxis was really weak and we got a good start [11:37] MasterZen: according to miccofl one of the Grenouilles had been "spying" in his web site for sensitive information [11:38] BigFree: BTW, Congratulations on the Pyramids! 12:4D1 [11:38] Zayxus: miccofl? [11:38] MasterZen: miccofl, leader of CGN [11:39] [GWT]feanor0815: thank you we are really proud to have them but we would trade it for SunTzu at the moment [11:39] BigFree: LOL [11:39] BigFree: are youhaving a conflict? [11:39] [GWT]feanor0815: i was on the way to that chapter [11:40] BigFree: oohhh [11:40] [GWT]feanor0815: [11:40] * BigFree sits back to listen [11:40] * MasterZen picks up a beer [11:40] [GWT]feanor0815: i got one too [11:42] [GWT]feanor0815: so during our wars they ask us not to intervent in their war whiping des Gren [11:44] [GWT]feanor0815: but they did take a granted city from firaxis which is now in our back [11:44] MasterZen: was it Gren or CGN which had iron to begin with? [11:45] [GWT]feanor0815: dont know about that cause we wasnt interested in that cause Grenouilles [11:45] MasterZen: ah so technically you were at war over that city? or did you get it back diplomatically? [11:45] [GWT]feanor0815: was located at a small isthmus that divided CGN/Gren and GWT/Fir [11:46] [GWT]feanor0815: El Amarna is in their hands [11:46] [GWT]feanor0815: they didnt stop with their units at the isthmus and gone further north [11:46] MasterZen: ah I read it wrong, sorry [11:48] [GWT]feanor0815: to explore - with katapult,army,swords.. -surely [11:48] BigFree: quite an exploration crew to say the least [11:49] BigFree: Army? [11:49] [GWT]feanor0815: lately they landed some Riders on the ex firaxis peninsula [11:49] [GWT]feanor0815: yes an army - three swords i would think [11:49] BigFree: Did CGN build an Army out of a GL? [11:49] BigFree: wow [11:50] MasterZen: this sounds very aggressive [11:50] [GWT]feanor0815: yes for us too [11:50] MasterZen: are you guys ready in case a war should start? [11:51] [GWT]feanor0815: we asked twice not to get to close to ours borders [11:51] [GWT]feanor0815: but they didnt react on diplomatic ways [11:51] [GWT]feanor0815: so last turn we send an ultimate while their armystack is on field from our border [11:52] [GWT]feanor0815: if they dont went south we react on that as on an aggressive act [11:53] MasterZen: I hope they listen, but if they are bent on war there won't be much to stop them [11:54] [GWT]feanor0815: yes i think they wont stop cause theyve gone to far yet [11:54] [GWT]feanor0815: but - dont get this as moaning [11:55] [GWT]feanor0815: if they see an advantage they will take s we would do [11:56] [GWT]feanor0815: s = as [11:56] [GWT]feanor0815: but "act like" would be better [11:58] [GWT]feanor0815: we think we could stand them cause we got good cities - think you know [11:58] [GWT]feanor0815: we are on rep while theyre despots [11:59] * E_T (~e_t_1@user76.net907.fl.sprint-hsd.net) has joined #EvilGarden [11:59] MasterZen: yes that is a big advantage [11:59] MasterZen: hi E_T [11:59] * E_T is now known as E_T_Idle [11:59] [GWT]feanor0815: hopefully [11:59] MasterZen: are your armies evenly matched? [11:59] [GWT]feanor0815: long enough [12:00] [GWT]feanor0815: sorry dont get that [12:00] BigFree: are you equal in strength? [12:01] [GWT]feanor0815: yes even [12:03] MasterZen: well, wars usually favor the defender [12:04] [GWT]feanor0815: yes they got a long way to go [12:04] [GWT]feanor0815: but their building a street to our border [12:04] [GWT]feanor0815: teyre [12:05] [GWT]feanor0815: they're [12:05] [GWT]feanor0815: grrr [12:06] MasterZen: yes, that is a sure sign of hostilities [12:07] [GWT]feanor0815: yes we have to take it like that [12:08] MasterZen: well, we really wish we could help but we are a bit far to do anything meaningful [12:09] BigFree: we definately sympathise with you [12:09] [GWT]feanor0815: i thought about help [12:09] [GWT]feanor0815: but even Gold is not so necessary [12:11] [GWT]feanor0815: other like troops is illusionary or tech impossible at the moment [12:11] MasterZen: if we sent an army, half of it would sink on the way, heheh [12:12] [GWT]feanor0815: so we can live with your sympathy but thx for that [12:13] MasterZen: good, we plan on having an good and active relationship with you, no matter if you are at war [12:13] [GWT]feanor0815: im confidental to throw them from the peninsula and back to the isthmus [12:13] [GWT]feanor0815: so we can have that you said [12:15] [GWT]feanor0815: so we can be sure that you wont share techs with Net while we re in war with them ? [12:15] MasterZen: yes, agreed [12:16] [GWT]feanor0815: fine [12:16] MasterZen: well that is a complicated issue [12:17] [GWT]feanor0815: ? [12:18] MasterZen: well, we don't really want to risk bad relationships with either of you [12:18] MasterZen: if we trade techs with them you will get mad, and if we trade techs with you they will get mad. [12:18] Zayxus: german: komplizierte Angelegenheit [12:19] BigFree: sounds like: complicated entanglement [12:19] MasterZen: obviously we will not allow them to pressure us with any treaties we have signed with you [12:21] MasterZen: I have an idea [12:21] [GWT]feanor0815: can talk for for me that i understand this but dont know what the team will say ok - idea ? [12:21] MasterZen: we can agree "not to sign any agreements with the other while you are at war". [12:22] MasterZen: and since we made the chivalry - mono deal BEFORE the war, it doesn't count [12:22] [GWT]feanor0815: that i think is ok while we can act if trades are running [12:23] MasterZen: the difficulty that I see is that CGN will ask us exactly what you are asking us: not to trade with the other [12:23] MasterZen: so, since we made our deal before the war, it will still be valid even if we don't make trades during the war [12:25] MasterZen: sorry, did I make this clear? [12:25] [GWT]feanor0815: you could only win i think cause you'll trade with the winner - for i dont think to be able to whip CGN out our condition for peace would be a cancel of trades with [12:26] [GWT]feanor0815: you [12:27] MasterZen: at the moment we have only traded with you [12:27] * Trip[class] (~trip@c-67-162-147-249.client.comcast.net) Quit (Ping timeout)

	27-09-2003 01:50									#186
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

Chat with GWT part 2:

quote: [12:29] [GWT]feanor0815: short away [12:30] MasterZen: I'm thinking... [12:31] MasterZen: regardless, I think what I proposed benefits GWT much more than it does CGN [12:32] MasterZen: we already have a trade set up with you, CGN has nothing to trade to us since the techs they can get we are already getting [12:35] * [GWT]feanor0815 (~feanor081@pD95617C2.dip.t-dialin.net) Quit (Quit: ) [12:35] MasterZen: ? [12:36] Zayxus: I do not now why [12:37] MasterZen: he said "short away" [12:37] MasterZen: perhaps he'll come back in a while [12:38] * [GWT]feanor0815 (~feanor081@pD95617C2.dip.t-dialin.net) has joined #EvilGarden [12:38] [GWT]feanor0815: hi must have hit some shortcut [12:38] [GWT]feanor0815: was writing [12:39] MasterZen: this is what I said before you left: [12:39] MasterZen: MasterZen: regardless, I think what I proposed benefits GWT much more than it does CGN [12:39] MasterZen: MasterZen: we already have a trade set up with you, CGN has nothing to trade to us since the techs they can get we are already getting [12:39] [GWT]feanor0815: thx [12:39] [GWT]feanor0815: im aware of this [12:40] [GWT]feanor0815: but if CGN cant offer you something of interest why is it complicated [12:40] MasterZen: ah ok, so it's good with you? [12:41] [GWT]feanor0815: yes so far [12:41] MasterZen: ok, great, it's good to us too [12:42] [GWT]feanor0815: ok fine [12:42] MasterZen: well, I think it's time for us to share a bit of our own history... [12:42] [GWT]feanor0815: now i can lean back [12:43] * MasterZen gives feanor a beer [12:43] [GWT]feanor0815: thx [12:43] [GWT]feanor0815: prost [12:43] MasterZen: salud! [12:43] MasterZen: (that's prost in spanish) [12:43] Zayxus: [12:44] MasterZen: ok, it was the year 4000 BC when a band of brave Apolytonian settlers founded.... eerr, that's too early [12:44] MasterZen: ok, basically our history is a bit boring. We haven't had a war [12:44] MasterZen: first we met CDG (they are dead now) [12:45] MasterZen: we had some problems with them at first, then we met GCA [12:46] MasterZen: we had overall good relations with both, we traded techs [12:46] MasterZen: then we met CFC [12:46] MasterZen: we also had good relations, but we were told that CFC and GCA hated each other [12:47] MasterZen: they were arguing over a city which was close to GCA but had iron [12:47] MasterZen: they were going to go to war, Apolyton tried to mediate and avoid a war, but the war started anyway [12:48] MasterZen: GCA attacked CFC [12:48] MasterZen: then CDG allied with CFC and began a war with GCA [12:49] MasterZen: at first CDG was doing good, but GCA got lucky and counterattacked them, and defeated them [12:50] [GWT]feanor0815: maybe CFC didnt really attack while GCA was defeating CDG ?? [12:50] MasterZen: they did [12:50] MasterZen: but GCA was much stronger [12:50] MasterZen: GCA could fight both of them at the same time [12:51] MasterZen: they also have an swordsman Army [12:51] MasterZen: anyway, before they died, CDG gave their last cities and techs to Apolyton and Fanatics [12:51] [GWT]feanor0815: ui - we nonnatural could prevent the bothsidewar [12:52] [GWT]feanor0815: [12:52] [GWT]feanor0815: lucky ones [12:52] MasterZen: after that, GCA continued the war against Fanatikou [12:53] MasterZen: a few turns ago they signed a temporary cease fire, but war can break out again [12:54] MasterZen: Fanatikou is Apolyton's friend, we would not allow GCA to destroy them [12:55] [GWT]feanor0815: even youre not really involved story istn boring [12:55] [GWT]feanor0815: so GCA is not so close to you [12:55] MasterZen: yes, now they are because they took over most of CDG's lands [12:56] MasterZen: we have a border with them now [12:59] MasterZen: well, that's pretty much the history, like I said, things are very tense also [12:59] Zayxus: a bit abstract [13:00] Zayxus: the relations and the geographic [13:00] MasterZen: yes, in our continent everyone was close to everyone else [13:01] MasterZen: except CFC, they are separated by two isthmus also [13:01] [GWT]feanor0815: seems so has CFC a border to you or is CGA between you ? [13:02] MasterZen: At first CFC had borders in the north with CDG and in the south with GCA [13:02] MasterZen: after CDG got killed, they share the northern border with us [13:02] MasterZen: all 3 civs now have borders with each other [13:03] MasterZen: if you are interested we can work out on a world map trade also [13:04] Zayxus: please [13:04] Zayxus: feanor? [13:04] [GWT]feanor0815: for me ok but have to ask [13:04] MasterZen: we have to discuss also, but I think most of us would like it [13:05] Kloreep: I GG. Bye guys! [13:05] * Kloreep (~ben@66-90-194-84.grandecom.net) Quit (Quit: ) [13:05] [GWT]feanor0815: think so too [13:05] Zayxus: how far was it for Apol. until us? [13:05] MasterZen: ? [13:05] Zayxus: oversea [13:06] MasterZen: ah, we took 2 turns at sea [13:06] MasterZen: very lucky to have survived [13:06] Zayxus: the risc always [13:06] MasterZen: yes, we were about to send that galley across right before we found you [13:10] Zayxus: thank you for the history [13:10] MasterZen: hey guys, I have to leave in 10 minutes [13:10] MasterZen: is there anything urgent you wish to ask us? [13:10] [GWT]feanor0815: oh i wanted to place an idea [13:11] MasterZen: sure, go ahead [13:11] [GWT]feanor0815: on short [13:12] [GWT]feanor0815: you convince Netatolian from leaving the peninsula and removing to the isthmus and 4 civs can stamp CGA ? [13:13] [GWT]feanor0815: as a thought [13:14] MasterZen: we can definitely try and convince them not to go to war [13:16] [GWT]feanor0815: do your best , maybe we can talk about borders if we knew total of [13:17] [GWT]feanor0815: the Netland so can come ton 50% agreement [13:17] MasterZen: ok, I'll keep that in mind [13:17] BigFree: How much of CGN's land does GWT have in it's own WM? [13:18] MasterZen: I really have to go right now, it was a pleasure to talk with both of you, and I will send a written proposal of all we have discussed to you ok? [13:18] [GWT]feanor0815: ok cu [13:18] MasterZen: ciao! [13:18] MasterZen: BigFree can continue the discussion [13:18] [GWT]feanor0815: was pleasure for me too [13:18] * MasterZen sets mode: +o BigFree [13:18] Zayxus: cu [13:19] * MasterZen (~raguil@dup-148-221-141-123.prodigy.net.mx) Quit (Quit: going to sue my phone company) [13:19] [GWT]feanor0815: really dont know [13:19] BigFree: ok, but it is not all of it. Have you ever traded maps with CGN? [13:20] [GWT]feanor0815: cause we didnt know the shore [13:20] BigFree: right [13:21] [GWT]feanor0815: i would guess we 70 - 80% [13:21] BigFree: ok [13:21] BigFree: This is just an idle thought: [13:22] BigFree: CGN and GWT are interested in our WM [13:22] [GWT]feanor0815: we traded maps earlier but not recently [13:22] BigFree: but, we dont want to seem to take sides [13:23] BigFree: what if we traded our WM's on the same turn to both GWt and CGN [13:23] BigFree: that way niether of you has the WM of the other [13:23] BigFree: but you both get our WM [13:23] [GWT]feanor0815: no not WM [13:24] BigFree: You are not interested in trading for WM's? [13:25] [GWT]feanor0815: like i said i 'll have to ask but think they would agree but [13:26] [GWT]feanor0815: if you'd trade the WM first to us and then yours to Net they got some good [13:26] [GWT]feanor0815: instructures [13:26] [GWT]feanor0815: quatsch instructions [13:27] Zayxus: knowledge? [13:27] BigFree: Yes, I agree [13:27] BigFree: Thats why i suggested that it happen on the same turn [13:27] BigFree: Then, nither of you would get the others WM [13:28] BigFree: The way it would work is that we would give our WM to both of you on the same turn [13:28] BigFree: then both CGN and GWT would give their WM's to us [13:28] [GWT]feanor0815: i got you - but thinking [13:28] Zayxus: worldmaps are not very important now. [13:29] [GWT]feanor0815: ok [13:29] Zayxus: a little drawing would do it as well. [13:30] BigFree: Exploration is semi-important to us [13:30] Zayxus: just to get an idea [13:30] [GWT]feanor0815: then we'll wait for your offer [13:31] BigFree: ok [13:31] BigFree: BTW, out team has to poll just about everything before we can "officially" agree to anything [13:31] BigFree: *our [13:32] [GWT]feanor0815: ok will remind that this is firstly ambassadory [13:33] BigFree: yep 12:4)1 [13:34] BigFree: anything else to discuss? [13:34] [GWT]feanor0815: mhh dont know [13:34] Zayxus: either [13:35] [GWT]feanor0815: trades , war , info , evrything done now i can really lean bak [13:35] BigFree: Ok then, lets consider this chat over. 12:4D1 [13:36] Zayxus: luckily we found the time [13:36] BigFree: yes [13:36] BigFree: its hard that we are on two different continents, in real life [13:36] [GWT]feanor0815: bigfree can you send me log cause im a n00b chatter [13:36] BigFree: yes, I would be happy to send a copy [13:36] BigFree: email? [13:37] [GWT]feanor0815: only on one hand on the other that gam unites the contints [13:37] BigFree: true [13:37] [GWT]feanor0815: feanor0815@t-online.de [13:38] [GWT]feanor0815: my cat wants me to leave the chat meowmeowmeow [13:38] BigFree: lol [13:38] BigFree: adios [13:38] BigFree: cya [13:39] Zayxus: bye [13:39] BigFree: ciao [13:39] [GWT]feanor0815: but really the cat cu and thx i've enjoyed it [13:40] * [GWT]feanor0815 (~feanor081@pD95617C2.dip.t-dialin.net) has left #EvilGarden [13:40] * Zayxus (Zayxus@A26f4.pppool.de) Quit (Quit: cu)

	27-09-2003 05:15									#187
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

Chat with miccofl of CGN:

quote: * Now talking in #isdg-Embassy1 * Topic is 'Welcome Apolytonians' * Set by miccofl on Wed Sep 24 12:31:11 miccofl> Hello Arnelos miccofl> seems GWT has finally passed the turn Trip> good Arnelos> hello Arnelos> so I saw Arnelos> you guys have it now miccofl> Gamecatcher has it now Trip> Lucky is probably asleep Arnelos> Arnelos> oh well Arnelos> so how are things at CGN these days? miccofl> from hectic to dead calm * MasterZen has joined #isdg-Embassy1 MasterZen> hello miccofl> hello Arnelos> miccofl - BF and MZ had a chat with GWT earlier today and they mentioned that you guys have a swordsman army or something like that near their border. miccofl> something like that Arnelos> from what little I understand from the logs, it sounds like there's an isthmus that seperates CGN/Gren from GWT/Fir and taht you guys control it now miccofl> as I said, we were going to help out Firaxis Arnelos> right, they mentioned that, something about landing horsemen near a Firaxis city miccofl> they just coouldn't hold on Arnelos> right Arnelos> they also mentioned something about Firaxis gifting you a city, but they weren't very clear on the location miccofl> El-Amarna Arnelos> half of what they say is hard to figure out because of the language barrier miccofl> bullshit miccofl> they are jerking your chain miccofl> they arequite litterate in english Arnelos> well, we've had some dealings with them in our internal PTW DG where they have one of the teams... their English skill seems to depend wildly on who is doing the diplomacy miccofl> I won't argue that Arnelos> Actually, the team I'm the Foreign Affairs Minister for is at war with GWT miccofl> but they have many good translators MasterZen> Babelfish? Arnelos> true... my suspicion is that while who conducts the chat itself may or may not have excellent English skill, they probably have someone translate everything said in a chat after the fact for general consumption miccofl> we have not chatted with them miccofl> all messages by email Arnelos> hmm... sounds similar to Togas' experiences with them in the other game. We found it almost impossible to schedule chats with them Arnelos> then they declared war on us, so that sorta killed the point MasterZen> hahah * MasterZen thinks he may have had something to do with that... hee hee Arnelos> yes you did... but I had something to do with NYE declaring war on you Arnelos> anyhow... back to subject Arnelos> I think it would be ok to basically explain the lay-out of our continent in simple terms since we now have that about yours Arnelos> CFC, GCA, and ourselves all border one another, GCA owns CDG's former territory (which they took most of in the war). We formerly did not have a border with GCA or CFC before the war, but like we said in our last chat... CDG gifted us their last cities * Furloaf has joined #isdg-Embassy1 Furloaf> Hi everybody Arnelos> hey MasterZen> hello miccofl> so you are a little spread out? Arnelos> we are not miccofl> hey Furloaf Arnelos> our territory is actually rather compact miccofl> your borders actually meet the other borders? miccofl> or close Arnelos> fully with GCA, not so with CFC I believe * BigFree is now known as BigFree|Away Arnelos> CFC is sorta off to themselves on their part of the continent, though they have been fighting GCA and there's a no-man's land in between miccofl> there is much space between us and GWT Arnelos> GCA and Apolyton now share a border right through the middle of what was CDG, there's a no-man's land in between CFC and both Apolyton and GCA Arnelos> btw... something I've noticed... from talking to you and GWT, it sounds like your continent has a number of isthmuses and chokepoints. We have a few ourselves. This seems rather odd, don't you think? miccofl> they expand about as fast as they send the turn then Arnelos> well, they've been busy fighting GCA miccofl> CFC? Arnelos> there's been a recent cessation of hostilities miccofl> I thought that was over Arnelos> but it went on for quite some time miccofl> ah, recent Arnelos> GCA was fighting CFC and CDG simultaneously... I believe they got 2 GL's miccofl> I think it will be ineresting for both our teams when the maps are exchanged Arnelos> yes Arnelos> I think you were told the progression of those wars earlier miccofl> 2 GLs, must be nice Arnelos> they had some very nice luck along with their impressive numbers Arnelos> the no-man's land between CFC and GCA is very mountainous, as well... I'm sure that probably played into it Arnelos> I think the first GL was made into an army... I'm not sure that we ever saw what happened to the second one, though I assume it's probably also an army Arnelos> unless they rushed an FP or something Arnelos> (or are saving it for that) miccofl> That would explain Algalord miccofl> #2 on the top cities list at 4 pop Arnelos> Algalord is something of a mystery to us as well... it's been on the top 5 list most of the game Arnelos> I know others have speculated on that, but I don't remember myself what they thought the reason was Arnelos> btw, how soon were we going to trade maps... I know that was discussed recently Trip> GCA has lots of culture :P miccofl> We will offer our part of the deal next turn Trip> I highly doubt Algalord has their FP, being that it's right next to their capital miccofl> good point, but then I can't see that yet Trip> hehe Trip> the top cities list doesn't like us much :P miccofl> do you have any in-game embassys? Arnelos> yes, though I don't remember with whom Arnelos> you? Arnelos> (with GWT) miccofl> with GWT Arnelos> right miccofl> we had other ones Arnelos> I honestly don't know... I was absent from the game for February through about May Arnelos> I'd think we'd have embassies with both GCA and CFC, but I honestly don't know Arnelos> as for contact with your continent, to my knowledge we're the only civ on our continent to have built galleys *at all*, nevermind suicide with them miccofl> pity, it's been kind of boring over here up until now miccofl> the war with Grenouille was fun but after that Arnelos> boring? You've been fighting wars Arnelos> I think, to date, Apolyton is the only team in the game that has NOT fought a war - been building miccofl> fighting a war with no contact from anyone else got a little old miccofl> we did both miccofl> although had we not gone to war we would have built a lot more Arnelos> that was basically the idea miccofl> of course you had to hack your way out of a jungle Arnelos> hmm... who told you that? Arnelos> it's true, of course miccofl> BigFree earlier in the session Arnelos> ah Arnelos> yeah, our starting location was.... lots and lots and lots of jungle Arnelos> CDG had a lot of it, too Arnelos> most of which we gained when they gifted their cities to us miccofl> they gifted you jungle? Arnelos> essentially Arnelos> so it just gave us more jungle to chop down miccofl> that's what we got from Firaxis Arnelos> a jungle city? miccofl> it only has 4 land tiles, 2 are jungle and 1 is a hill Arnelos> fun miccofl> sorry my mistake, the hill is outside - only 3 tiles MasterZen> haha Arnelos> so yeah, while everyone else in the game was having fun fighting wars, we were chopping jungle Arnelos> though I guess we had more fun than CDG, Grenoule, and Firaxis miccofl> one would hope Arnelos> (chuckle) miccofl> There must really be some bad blood between GC and CDG for them not to want refugees to join any team Arnelos> uh huh miccofl> Has Apolyton voted yet? Arnelos> I don't think so Arnelos> our internal poll is still going Arnelos> I thought it was interesting when GCA noted the time issue and CFC responded that they had been one of the teams to vote in FAVOR of it miccofl> and then went to over -100 hours * MasterZen has quit IRC (gtg) Arnelos> it was our team that voted no on everything other than the bonus 50 hours. I think the general sentiment is that we just don't want the game balance f*cked up. Arnelos> geesh... turnout on our internal poll for this is pretty low Arnelos> We'll just mention it during the turnchat and get more people to vote on it miccofl> When I have an important issue I need as many people as possible to vote on, I send everyone an email miccofl> Once I got so tired of everyone asking questions that would have been answered had they read the chat log that I named the file DO NOT READ!!!.txt Arnelos> lol Arnelos> I suppose that worked? miccofl> so far miccofl> They are much better about reading the logs now Arnelos> I make it a point to read ours, mostly because I'm in our Foreign Affairs Ministry Arnelos> not sure how many people do, however Arnelos> well, I should probably get going - party in less than 2 hours to be to miccofl> another way to get them to read at least some of it is to copy and paste the whole log miccofl> have fun Arnelos> yeah, that's what we do... just copy the whole log Arnelos> cya

	27-09-2003 05:30									#188
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

An email received from the CGN ambassador to us:

Grungy -- grungieg@hotmail.com

quote: Greetings, I am the newly appointed ambassador to your great nation. We hope that our two nations may share many years of peace and friendship together. Please feel free to contact me anytime, and I will promply address any concerns you may have with my administration. Thank you. Respectfully, Grungy Netotalian Ambassador of Aploytonia

	28-09-2003 04:00									#189
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This letter should also be posted here. The two attached screenshots can be found in the new thread I started (along with copies of this letter and my response). From Grungy of CGN:

quote: Ambassador Arnelos, It comes with deep regret that I must inform you on a tragic and disspecable event that has fallen apon us. I have enclosed screen shots as a demonstration of the Webringen Treachery. With no war declaration the webringen willfully, and delebrately attacked and defeated our noble horseman in neutral territory. Thier mission was one of exploration and surveying of the terrian. Surely the webs, with all thier might, couldn't have taken two lonely horsemen as a threat? These screen shots clearly show the fact that all of our units were clearly outside their territory. The units that they attacked are in the picture titled "attacked"As you can see they were not within their (GWT) borders and were obviously preparing to load on the galley. The other units they have brought to your attention are also well outside their borders, as is demonstrated by the pic titled "army"and while the size of the divisions are large they are in a location that is more suited to forward reconnaissance than attacking. Respectfully, Grungy Netotalian Ambassador to Aploytonia

My response letter (entirely fluff):

quote: Ambassador Grungy, I thank you for your letter and the information provided about the Webringen attack contained therein. I find it an encouraging sign that Netatolia is willing to trust us with information such as this and see this as a potential sign that we can perhaps cooperate more closely in the future. I have passed your letter and attached information on to the Apolytonian Senate. While the government is currently hard at work on other issues, this will likely be discussed over the next few days in the Senate. I will remain in contact with yourself and your esteemed leader, Premier Miccofl, in the future should you have any need of us. Thank You. Ambassador Arnelos Apolyton

	28-09-2003 04:47									#190
	A message from the People of Apolyton Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

quote: To the Gamecatcher Alliance The Empire of Apolyton announces that a state of war now exists between our nations. As of this turn, we have moved military units onto your side of our border. By definition, this is considered a formal declaration of war, rendering all treaties between us void. The decision to go to war is one that Apolyton has discussed extensively and has not taken lightly, but ultimately is the path that our nation must take for the sake of its long-term security. We understand that this will be a difficult war. Your team has demonstrated extraordinary tactics and skill in its wars against CFC and CDG. We highly respect the fighting abilities of the Gamecatcher Alliance and look forward to meeting you on the battlefield. We reiterate that our motives are purely strategic in nature, and that there is no ill will between us as teams or as players. We hold your team in the highest regard but we cannot shy from the course of action we have embarked upon for the sake of our own destiny. We are not interested in negotiations about the war at this time. We may consider a peaceful resolution to this conflict at a later date. May the best team win, and may glory shine upon the brave who march forward to meet this challenge. Regards, The People of Apolyton

	28-09-2003 04:57									#191
	Tired of ads?

Chat with miccofl of CGN:

quote: Arnelos> hello Arnelos> checking my e-mail... I hear there's something for me? miccofl> Hello Arnelos miccofl> there should be Arnelos> ok, checking miccofl> he posted that he sent it Arnelos> ok, got it Arnelos> posting that on our site miccofl> did he send you the pics or links to them? Arnelos> he sent pics, I believe Arnelos> yes, pics Arnelos> I see them miccofl> ok, good miccofl> I've been using more and more bandwidth of late Arnelos> I've posted your message with the screenshots miccofl> Good, we thought you would like to know Arnelos> no discussion in the thread yet... everyone's busy with the turnchat Arnelos> speaking of htat, I should get back to it * SL3 has left #isdg-Embassy1 * Furloaf has left #isdg-Embassy1 Arnelos> So what are your plans for the war? GWT has attacked your units positioned near their territory... do you plan to simply hold your ground, or attack? Arnelos> I think either would be entirely reasonable, given the circumstances miccofl> We are debating that Arnelos> Quite likely Arnelos> Arnelos> What do you think THEY are trying to do? Attacking a single horsemen in neutral territory seems a particularly petty way to start a war with the other powerhouse civ miccofl> that is an understatement miccofl> we will have to see what they do with their next turn, they seem to be a bit full of themselves Arnelos> Do you think they are prepared to actually march on and attempt to defeat your army or that they're army is either too busy elsewhere or not strong enough? Arnelos> *their miccofl> that is a good part of the ongoing debate Arnelos> becuase it seems rather inane for them to attack at all unless they believe they can take you miccofl> They are expecting us to accept peace if we are to believe their communication miccofl> but only if we move back Arnelos> so, in essence, they attacked in order to tell you to "back off" from the border? miccofl> that is the gist of it Arnelos> you'd think they'd have something substantial to back that up, though miccofl> it wouldn't have pissed us off half as bad if we weren't going to load those horses and step back from their border Arnelos> did they kill both? miccofl> I don't see how we can do that now though miccofl> yes Arnelos> hmm Arnelos> but they haven't attacked your main army? miccofl> would you? Arnelos> depends on what they HAVE... that's my point miccofl> We have seen archers, horsemen, many pikes and a few MI - most are regulars miccofl> They would have to provide significant compensation before we could accept peace at this time Arnelos> how much do you think would be enough? miccofl> given the nature of the attack I don't think we could accept less than 500 gold each Arnelos> woah miccofl> but all things are subject to a vote Arnelos> of course miccofl> So what is Apolytonia's official stance on this conflict? Arnelos> nothing yet Arnelos> I've passed it on to the SEnate Arnelos> but we're currently doing our turnchat Arnelos> are you planning to send your expectations of what you need before peace to GWT? miccofl> I'm going to leave that desicion up to the Minister of State miccofl> personally I would rather rewrite my war declaration to the Grenouile and send that - but that is my opinion miccofl> they are threatening to get me a rabies shot Arnelos> (chuckle) miccofl> well you never read my Declaration of War either Arnelos> nope Arnelos> that wasn't in your history, as I recall miccofl> I rewrote a declaration sent from the Ottomans in the 1600's to Emperor Leopold of Austria miccofl> it was a little graphic miccofl> Trip would probabbly enjoy it Arnelos> could we see it? Arnelos> I'm sure he would Trip> :flamesofhell: Trip> :finnish: miccofl> It's a little large for here miccofl> I'll try and break it up Arnelos> you can just e-mail it if you want miccofl> I found some breaks here goes miccofl> You have for some time past acted to our prejudice, and violated our friendship, although we have not offended you; but you have conducted espionage, given and taken private advice with other nations, in which you have acted very indiscreetly, and thereby have exposed your people to fear and danger, having nothing to expect but death, which you have brought upon your selves. miccofl> For we declare unto you, we will make ourselves your master, pursue you from East to West, and extend our might and majesty to the end of the earth; in all which you shall find our power to your great prejudice. miccofl> We assure you that you shall feel the weight of our power; and for that you have put your hope and expectation in the strength of some towns and castles, we have given command to overthrow them, and to trample under feet with our Horses, all that is acceptable and pleasant in your eyes, leaving nothing hereafter by which you shall make a friendship with us, or any fortified places to put your trust in: miccofl> For we have resolved without retarding of time, to ruin both you and your people, to take the Grenouille Empire according to our pleasure, and to leave in the Empire a Commemoration of our dreadful Sword, miccofl> that it may appear to all, it will be a pleasure to us, to give a public establishment of our Religion, and to pursue your pathetic Frog God, whose wrath we fear not, nor his coming to your assistance, to deliver you out of our hands. miccofl> We will according to our pleasure put your Sacred Priests to the plough, and expose the breasts of your matrons to be sucked by dogs and other beasts. miccofl> You will therefore do well to forsake your religion, or else we will give order to consume you with fire. This is enough said unto you, and to give you to understand what we would have, in case you have a mind to know it. miccofl> We never heard from them again lol Arnelos> copying Arnelos> got it Arnelos> well, if you send that to GWT, you may never hear from them again, either miccofl> true Arnelos> I guess your Minister of State will probably send your demands, though Arnelos> you DO have the swordsman army, afterall miccofl> that we do miccofl> a swordsman army and an army of swordsmen Arnelos> (chuckle), that too

	28-09-2003 12:26									#192
	Full PM-box? Change here!

This from feanor, gotta love their brutal honesty (and itchy trigger fingers)

quote: Hi Master Zen, fine Chat yesterday. But I think my last idea came to late since during chat people decided to destroy the nearest Riders of Netatolia. But you can tell them in any case we would stop fighting immideatly if they 'll stop their advance and retreat. I'll send them one right know. feanor0815

	29-09-2003 22:40									#193
	Inflate your Upload Space

On ICQ

quote: Lucky: tsk

He then got offline.

	30-09-2003 03:57									#194
	Increase Your PM Length

quote: People of Apolyton, with deep regret have we learned of your governments decision to wage war against our peace loving people of the Gamecatcher Alliance and we are saddened and annoyed by your lack of honor and logic in this decision. This act of treachery supercedes even that of earlier similar developments in these lands by far, as it becomes more and more obvious that you have been plotting against us all the time, from the very beginning of time. We have no idea why we deserve this treatment, we have fulfilled every treaty and agreement to the point and comma and even overlooked your empire breaking and bending those very trades and treaties at several incidents. Your treachery and clear breaking of official treaties has of course been reported to the UN and we will make sure that everyone learns that trust and honor is a concept you don´t understand or live up to. Your so called “strategic” objectives are nothing but laughable and your still friendly diplomatic contact tastes rather disgusting right now. Yet in fact it is sad at the same time. This very behavior will lead to nothing more than our real rivals, the other two civilizations, gaining an even bigger lead. As you iterated yourself, the only way to have a reasonable chance is to work together. If you would care to elaborate your “strategic” goals, we are always willing to work something reasonable out. But let it be known that whatever your goals may be, you will NOT gain ANYTHING which we possess, no matter what you do, no matter how hard you try! In the end you will realize that your betrayal will be a simple waste of time and resources, save the fact that you crippled or destroyed the only trustworthy ally you had and may ever have. In fact the only team that has not broken any treaty and prides itself with standing to concepts as integrity and honor! The future will show you the error of your ways, no matter what happens in the coming centuries. And I am sure you will deeply regret it. We will fight to the bitter end if we must and not cower in fear like the weaklings of CDG, so do not expect a renewal of history here. May the Gods bless our soldiers and may they punish you lying bastards for all eternity for this betrayal. May your treacherous souls forever be trapped in the deepest pits of hell, trapped in an endless cycle of pain and suffering. The Gamecatcher Alliance P.S.: Despite your “No negotiation” message, and this is no negotiation, I do hope you have at least the courage and dignity to post this reply to your declaration of war to all your people.

	30-09-2003 09:10									#195
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

Chat with CGN

quote: Session Start: Mon Sep 29 00:00:00 2003 Session Ident: #isdg-Embassy1 [00:32] Arnelos: . [01:43] Arnelos: fyi, I'm now Acting Consul of Apolyton (NYE has had a leave of absence). I'm still Ambassador to CGN, however, since my time as Acting Consul should be temporary. [03:19] * Arnelos (Arnelos@cgn-17B0417.tc.ph.cox.net) Quit [05:23] * Arnelos (Arnelos@cgn-17B0417.tc.ph.cox.net) has joined #isdg-Embassy1 [05:24] * Arnelos is now known as Arnelos_AWAY [07:25] * miccofl (miccofl@cgn-28768D31.se.client2.attbi.com) Quit (Ping timeout) [07:25] * miccofl (miccofl@cgn-28768D31.se.client2.attbi.com) has joined #isdg-Embassy1 [07:25] * ChanServ sets mode: +oq miccofl miccofl [07:25] * Disconnected [07:25] * Attempting to rejoin channel #isdg-Embassy1 [07:25] * Rejoined channel #isdg-Embassy1 [07:25] * Topic is 'Welcome Apolytonians' [07:25] * Set by miccofl on Wed Sep 24 12:31:11 [08:19] * Arnelos_AWAY is now known as Arnelos [08:19] Arnelos: miccofl - you there? [08:45] * Arnelos is now known as Arnelos_AWAY [09:37] * Rasbelin (me@cgn-37BBC03C.customer.soneraliving.fi) has joined #isdg-Embassy1 [09:37] * ChanServ sets mode: +oa Rasbelin Rasbelin [09:37] * Rasbelin (me@cgn-37BBC03C.customer.soneraliving.fi) has left #isdg-Embassy1 [10:17] * Trip[class] (trip@cgn-1C25BC96.client.comcast.net) has joined #isdg-Embassy1 [13:45] * miccofl sees his always-on connection wasn't [13:59] BigFree: 12:4D1 [13:59] BigFree: Hi there [14:00] miccofl: Hello [14:01] BigFree: I had to laugh at GCA's latest post in the "turn sent" thread [14:01] miccofl: their "time out"? [14:01] BigFree: yeah [14:02] BigFree: only because it follwed them complaining that the turns werre taking too long [14:02] miccofl: it always happens that way [14:02] miccofl: there has been much speculation here as to the cause [14:03] BigFree: For us too [14:03] BigFree: Maybe aliens abducted Lucky? [14:03] BigFree: 12;4)1 [14:04] miccofl: we wonder if it is over a war poll [14:05] BigFree: I guess that could be it [14:05] BigFree: Maybe GWT has asked them to launch some Nukes at CGN [14:06] miccofl: they have contact? [14:06] BigFree: I'm only kidding. 12:4D1 [14:07] miccofl: At least these delays are alowing common sense to overrule the desire for immediate revenge here [14:08] BigFree: ah [14:08] miccofl: although I found myself quoting Tennyson last night [14:08] BigFree: I would have been pissed too [14:08] BigFree: LOL [14:09] * Trip[class] is now known as Trip [14:09] Trip: BF :P [14:09] BigFree: Hi Trip [14:10] Trip: hello [14:10] Trip: in any case I wish they would send it on :P [14:11] miccofl: My guess is not before tomorrow [14:12] Trip: I guess 5 teams is still too many :P [14:12] BigFree: HAHA [14:12] BigFree: That would make a great response to Lucky's last post! [14:12] Trip: heh heh [14:12] BigFree: [14:12] Trip: nahhhh [14:12] Trip: we're giving him a hard enough time as it is [14:14] miccofl: I wish the refugee issue would get resolved [14:15] miccofl: I still can't believe GC's original response on the issue [14:17] Trip: they don't have many friends :P [14:17] Trip: they want the secrets to die with their enemies [14:17] miccofl: Not sure what I am looking forward to more; getting some fresh ideas or seeing Louis XXIV get a culture shock [14:17] Trip: culture shock? [14:18] Trip: he was a good guy to work with, back in the day :P [14:18] miccofl: perhaps things were different in their private areas, but from what we saw of their public areas there was a lot of nonsense floating around [14:18] Trip: hehe [14:19] miccofl: the beer party or some such thing? [14:19] Trip: CDG had some interesting tactics [14:20] miccofl: very diplomaticly put for a general [14:20] Trip: they were having a "revolution" which required them to "station a garrison" near GCA's border for a time :P [14:22] miccofl: goofiest thing we ever did was to have 3 warrors to a line dance in-out and into Grenouille territory [14:22] BigFree: lol [14:22] Trip: haha [14:22] Trip: I'm sure they appreciated that [14:22] BigFree: I have an idea I want to discuss with you [14:22] miccofl: we did a shell game on them too [14:23] miccofl: let's hear it [14:23] Trip: it's actually my idea :P [14:23] BigFree: Well, you know that there are only two research paths right now [14:23] miccofl: right [14:23] BigFree: Monothesim is a deal we already have wokred out [14:23] miccofl: true [14:23] BigFree: We are working on Invention [14:24] BigFree: What can CGN do? [14:24] BigFree: not much [14:24] BigFree: what if we did the research and CGN funded half of it for rights to it [14:24] Trip: so we all get it faster [14:24] BigFree: at least a few teams 12:4P1 [14:24] BigFree: not "all" [14:25] Trip: well [14:25] Trip: all being the good guys [14:25] BigFree: [14:25] miccofl: we will be entering anarchy as soon as our deal for republic is concluded - once that is over our production and science rate will increase significantly [14:25] BigFree: right [14:26] BigFree: Apolyton is already on the raod to Invention [14:26] miccofl: We are currently researching Monotheism [14:26] BigFree: so, looking at costs, we, beign Apolyton and CGN would wastes less if Aplotyon continued on with the reasearch [14:28] Trip: how long before you have Monotheism done? [14:28] BigFree: there may be a way to get you Mono, though i do not have the liberty as of yet to say [14:28] miccofl: I will propose it and we will have a discussion - or you could post the proposal in the embassy forum and we see where it goes from there [14:29] BigFree: right [14:29] BigFree: I was just thinking out load [14:29] BigFree: *loud [14:29] Trip: interesting time to be in anarchy [14:30] miccofl: Actually, if you proposed it in the embassy forum the discussion might be better as questions could then be answered directly [14:30] BigFree: ok [14:30] BigFree: I will probably have Arnelos do it [14:31] miccofl: ***** of a time to be in anarchy, but it must be done [14:31] miccofl: as I said, we have found the recent delays to have worked to our advantage [14:33] miccofl: we have had many productive discussions [15:06] Trip: ahhhh [15:06] Trip: it'll be good to finally have the entire world mapped [15:06] Trip: though a bit sad as well [15:07] miccofl: sad? [15:07] Trip: no more wondering what's out there any more [15:07] BigFree: for me, exploration was always a big part of the fun of the game. [15:07] BigFree: all the way back to Civ 3 [15:07] BigFree: * Civ 1 [15:11] miccofl: when our maps finally get together I will do a one picture screenshot of the whole thing, I'll send you all a copy if you like [15:11] Trip: that'd be great, thanks [15:11] Trip: I'm a sucker for maps :P [15:11] miccofl: it could be larger than 2 MB [15:11] Trip: just don't send it via email :P [15:12] Trip: what shape is your continent? [15:12] Trip: hourglass? [15:12] miccofl: our current map usually resolves at about 780K [15:12] miccofl: yeah, a melted hourglass [15:13] Trip: ahh, not as interesting as ours [15:14] miccofl: but still about 20-25% empty [15:15] Trip: any islands? [15:15] miccofl: none we are aware of [15:16] Trip: we got a couple over by CFC [15:17] Trip: pretty much everything is lumped into the southern hemisphere :P [15:18] miccofl: We are in the south, GWT in the north [15:19] Trip: we pretty much figured that out already [15:20] Trip: Mongoose just told me that GCA sent the turn finally [15:20] miccofl: He posts before he sends [15:21] Trip: 130BC [15:21] Trip: Save sent to CGN. [15:21] Trip: [15:21] BigFree: why does mongoose send the save on? [15:21] miccofl: I got notification of the post 1 min before the turn arrived [15:21] Trip: mongoose sends the save on? :P [15:21] miccofl: mongoose doesn't [15:22] BigFree: ok [15:22] BigFree: I misunderstood [15:22] miccofl: Lucky posted that the save was sent before he sent it [15:22] BigFree: [15:20] Trip: Mongoose just told me that GCA sent the turn finally [15:22] BigFree: [15:20] miccofl: He posts before he sends [15:22] BigFree: 12:4)1 [15:22] Trip: Ghengis always used to do that for GoW :P [15:22] Trip: he once posted 1 minute after recieving the turn from ND :P [15:23] BigFree: It should be SEND then POST [15:23] Trip: the only time they beat my record of 2 minutes! :'( [15:24] miccofl: I put it on my server, send you the email and then I post [15:30] BigFree: Do you like our WM? [15:30] Trip: isn't it sexy :P [15:31] miccofl: Haven't opened it yet, rounding up beer and munchies for the turn [15:38] miccofl: That is going to be a really big picture [15:39] miccofl: Firaxis was almost in contact with CFC [15:40] Trip: it is the entire world [16:01] BigFree: Do you see anything intersting in our WM? [16:01] Trip: :P [16:02] miccofl: Give me just a few more min [16:02] BigFree: ah [16:04] Trip: by any chance do you see rubble to the southwest of Nevermore? :P [16:05] BigFree: LOL [16:05] Trip: hehe [16:07] miccofl: http://www.miccofl.net/Civ3/ISDG/TheWorld130BC.jpg - 1.29 MB 3220X1385 [16:08] miccofl: If you want to post that please don't call it from my server, post a zip or something. [16:09] Trip: wow, look at Firaxis [16:11] BigFree: sure, no problem [16:12] miccofl: This one was so big I just posted a link rather than have it load every time [16:15] BigFree: cool [16:16] miccofl: first time since I got cable that an image didn't load instantly [16:16] BigFree: I wanted to let you know that Trun 121 was a monumental turn for CGN and Apolyton [16:16] BigFree: You and GWT went to war [16:17] BigFree: Us and GCA went to war... [16:18] miccofl: WWI? [16:18] BigFree: 12:4D1 [16:18] BigFree: apparently so [16:18] BigFree: Weird how that worked out like that [16:19] miccofl: You declare war on them or did they declare war on you? [16:21] BigFree: Not at liberty to say [16:21] Trip: :P [16:24] BigFree: well, after a little discussion I can tell you that Apolyton decalred war on GCA [16:25] miccofl: I had figured that, but needed confirmation [16:25] BigFree: Yeah, it woud be hard to see a smaller nation, in terms of number of cities declaring war on us. [16:26] * Trip is now known as Trip[gone] [16:27] miccofl: The order of delay was the giveaway [16:29] BigFree: true [16:29] miccofl: the psycology of the game [16:32] BigFree: GCA had moved a good number of troops to our border prior to our declaration. We thought it may be prudent to make sure they never made it accross to our side. [16:33] miccofl: How have your deals went with them? [16:36] * SL3 (SL3@cgn-10864E9E.columbus.rr.com) has joined #isdg-Embassy1 [16:36] BigFree: Not bad, not good [16:36] BigFree: in the middle [16:37] BigFree: Would you care to offer anything for contact with CFC? [16:39] miccofl: I'll have to get back to you on that one [16:39] BigFree: sure [18:19] * Arnelos_AWAY is now known as Arnelos [18:19] Arnelos: just read the chat over the previous hours [18:19] Arnelos: So the cat's out of the bag? [18:19] Arnelos: good [18:21] Arnelos: ****... my browser seems unable to access any websites, but I'm still picking up people talking in chats [18:22] * Dubs (mrwhereits@12BDB6BA.58649CE0.173C51C4.IP) has joined #isdg-Embassy1 [18:23] * Arnelos (Arnelos@cgn-17B0417.tc.ph.cox.net) Quit [18:26] * Arnelos (Arnelos@cgn-17B0417.tc.ph.cox.net) has joined #isdg-Embassy1 [18:26] Arnelos: So the cat's out of the bag [18:28] Dubs: What do you mean? [18:29] miccofl: why Rand 8? [18:29] Dubs: Rand 8? [18:30] * Dubs is totally confused [18:30] miccofl: sorry guys, wrong window [18:30] Dubs: Oh - not giving away secrets, miccofl? [18:30] miccofl: not at this time [18:31] Dubs: Aw [18:31] Dubs: [18:36] SL3: I thought I was the only one to post in the wrong window. [18:38] Dubs: I couldn't - too different IRC windows open - and on opposite ends of the taskbar [18:39] SL3: we shall see [18:39] SL3: I do it all the time [18:40] SL3: My curser defaults to this windows so I need to be extra careful. [18:40] BigFree: lol [18:40] BigFree: its happened to all of us at one time or another [18:45] Dubs: Don't worry - we'll forget all of thos juicy secrets you accidentally tell us [18:46] SL3: LOL [18:47] SL3: Like we are at war with the Webs? [18:48] Arnelos: war? what war? ;p [18:48] SL3: [18:52] Dubs: That ain;t no secret, surely? [18:52] SL3: it was last turn before I slipped [18:53] Arnelos: bah, don't worry about it [18:53] Arnelos: We're at war, too [18:53] miccofl: we know [18:54] Arnelos: yeah, I read how BF let you guys know about that one earlier [18:54] SL3: We would have told you anyways about the war with webs but It wasnt good for me to alert your team before telling my own team. [18:55] Arnelos: fair enough [18:55] SL3: I was shocked to here you went to war with Gamecatcher [18:55] Arnelos: We'd been planning to let you guys know about GCA as well... there'd be no way to avoid it once you got the map [18:56] SL3: BTW it was nice to open the turn and see that our nations were able to make a trade, thank you [18:59] Dubs: And to you - it was a pleasure [19:02] Dubs: Successful trades with polite neighbours ALWAYS leave a good feeling in their wake [19:05] SL3: I have been sick for the past week and wasnt following the negotiations. It was a good feeling to start the turn out with a successful trade. [19:06] SL3: I hope we have nay more. [19:06] SL3: many [19:06] Arnelos: alrighty... I gotta go get some food... be back in a bit [19:06] SL3: later [19:06] * Arnelos is now known as Arnelos_AWAY [19:21] miccofl: The turn belongs to Apolyton [19:22] * Arnelos_AWAY is now known as Arnelos [19:22] Arnelos: excellent [19:22] Arnelos: Our current plan is to play it tomorrow night, actually [19:24] Dubs: About 24 hours from now, hopefully [19:24] miccofl: that's good to know, thanks [19:25] Arnelos: oh, btw, in case you didn't catch that I left this message for you earlier, I'm currently serving as Acting Consul in the place of NYE for a few days, but I'm still ambassador to CGN and this consul thing is only temporary [19:25] miccofl: I did see that earlier [19:26] Arnelos: ok [20:02] * Arnelos is now known as Arnelos_AWAY [20:53] * mongoose201 (mongoose20@290ABA1D.E0C49D33.62BF03AC.IP) has joined #isdg-Embassy1 [20:54] mongoose201: *peeks in.. [20:56] mongoose201: not very exciting in here [20:56] * miccofl is explaining the intricacies of the CGN Sports Book to the masses [20:57] mongoose201: hahaha..shouldn't I be explaining that? [20:57] BigFree: what are youtalking about [20:57] BigFree: WWI is happening! [20:57] mongoose201: I heard [20:57] mongoose201: but I am rich, so I care not [20:57] mongoose201: j/k [20:57] miccofl: WWI - The Wars of Northern Agression [20:58] mongoose201: surely noone in the north would be aggressive? [20:59] BigFree: of course not [21:00] mongoose201: well, now that I think about it, if I had to speak German all day, I might be aggressive too..maybe not [21:00] Dubs: I dunno - that Western hemisphere... [21:03] Dubs: Ah yes [21:03] * Furloaf (Furloaf@cgn-10A784EE.tnt1.galion.oh.da.uu.net) has joined #isdg-Embassy1 [21:03] Furloaf: Hello [21:04] mongoose201: greetings Furloaf

Chat is still ongoing...

	04-10-2003 10:02									#196
	Support Apolyton

Chat Trip had with miccofl in the CNG Embassy channel.

Yes, Trip, *I* can be the all-seeing eye as well

quote: * miccofl_ remembers darekill a bit differently... * brian_the_bold has quit IRC (Connection reset by peer) miccofl_> Ambiguous to confrontational is more like it Trip> at least they played the save faster back then :P miccofl_> Darekill's last message to us conveyed one thing very well though: angry, angry angry... Trip> why? miccofl_> well at that point we had just received possesssion of El-Amarna miccofl_> and they raised the issue of neutrality miccofl_> and we raised the issue of hoiw they traded Map Making when they were bound by agreement not to do so Trip> sounds touchy miccofl_> as we had researched the tech and sold it to GWT miccofl_> I have Soren's email where he states that GWT sold them MM and it was well before our deal was up Trip> wow Trip> well, at least it helped Firaxis out :P miccofl_> So we kept El-Amarna and I told them "*** for tat" miccofl_> they didn't care for that much Trip> is the city even worth anything? miccofl_> nope miccofl_> although it does have some strategic import Trip> did Firaxis just kind of evaporate after the first few battles? Trip> there's lots of ruins about :P Trip> looks like an Elimination game miccofl_> Firaxis burned some cities that they maybe should have tried to save miccofl_> had they managed to last one more turn they would still be here now miccofl_> we gave them a city on the turn they died miccofl_> Siegen Trip> ahhh Trip> too bad Trip> doesn't sound like a fun way to continue playing though :P miccofl_> no, we offered them full or obseving only membership miccofl_> but they declined miccofl_> I think they had had enough Trip> oh well Trip> how is it that they lost so quickly? miccofl_> out of their league miccofl_> they made it miccofl_> but when it came down to it miccofl_> they just didn't have the experience to deal with it at this level Trip> oh well Trip> it's always interesting to hear how the military endevours went miccofl_> we didn't get much from Soren on the battles miccofl_> other than they were hopelessly outnumbered Trip> you'd think they would have done better miccofl_> but I have hung on out of spite for over 1000 years befor Trip> them with iron and GWT without miccofl_> they weren't looking for war miccofl_> they didn't expect GWT to come hunting Trip> too bad Trip> should have known better Trip> one thing we all learned from the PTWDG is that you need a big army at all times no matter what... miccofl_> as I look at a few of my PBEM's I see myself sorely lacking Trip> finding out we had the biggest army in the world was somewhat surprising miccofl_> of course being stuck on Gilligan's Island without Mary Ann and Ginger... miccofl_> You must have a pile of units miccofl_> cause we have a bunch miccofl_> although if the Grenouille hadn't been so damn lucky... miccofl_> They did have some incredible luck miccofl_> pressed the odds to their side every time Trip> we are an army with a team, not the other way around miccofl_> I have the utmost respect for whomever made their military descisions Trip> good thing they didn't get better land and resources then eh? miccofl_> During our earlier war, I held a poll that allowed our citizens to make the choice as to declare martial law miccofl_> the leaders made the descisions miccofl_> that is why we moved so quickly during the war miccofl_> I have read the arguments about the map miccofl_> They are interesting, but disturbing nonetheless Trip> arguments about the map? miccofl_> About the starting map Trip> well, you did start in Eden :P miccofl_> I find that perhaps the map may have been altered, but the alterations I see would have been caused by a n00b running the editor for the first time - I can't agree that the map was altered to favor any team or hurt any team - but I think that if that level of editing was brought in (if it indeed was) that all starting positions should be equa; miccofl_> equal * miccofl_ thinks those 3 16oz Cap't & Cokes are having an effect on his typing miccofl_> I would like to ask a question, and I hope it isn't taken wrong - but why should it take a team so long to make moves in a wartime situation where a war poll isn't required (war is already declared by the other side?) Trip> well, the positions were clearly not all equal, no matter how you look at things :P Trip> our first turn took a while since we had planned it Trip> the second was similar in that we waited a while for people to arrive Trip> as for the other teams, I don't know miccofl_> Perhaps then it is the difference in what we consider "active" members miccofl_> To us, an active member participates in forum discussions and polls on a regular basis miccofl_> Leadership is what comes to the turn chat Trip> well, we want to have the populace involved in such a monumentous event miccofl_> You read my war speach to the frogs... Trip> yes miccofl_> Imagine the build up that caused me to use it Trip> hehe Trip> we've been sitting around chopping jungle all game... it's very exciting for the foot soldiers to see something besides that miccofl_> We have threads in our private forum that must never see the light of day miccofl_> We can understand your delays more than any of the others Trip> well, like I said it won't be an issue any more miccofl_> for GC to need 2 days to respond to an attack is BS Trip> back to the status quo for the execs Trip> GCA took about 28 hours I think (that's what someone from our team said) miccofl_> I wouldn't dispute that miccofl_> I can give you a more accurate time once I update the counter Trip> 5 teams seems to be too many Trip> so we'll just have to whittle away at that number :P miccofl_> I had hoped by this time to put the clock to sleep miccofl_> But it seems to be CFC's wall of shame Trip> haha Trip> no, the map is their wall of shame miccofl_> although they are improving Trip> only with extensive prodding miccofl_> We look at it this way; if you want to play a PBEM game - where do you go miccofl_> not CFC miccofl_> not CDG miccofl_> and if GC keeps on... miccofl_> which rememnds me... Trip> you go to GWT miccofl_> Have any of you heard anything from Frustrated Poet? miccofl_> We understand he was having some hardware issues miccofl_> and is holding up a game miccofl_> if he is going to be back on soon, cool Trip> not sure Trip> he's not too active miccofl_> If not we need to find a replacement, but we ahve no word Trip> time to go out to dinner * Trip is now known as Trip[gone] miccofl_> enjoy * brian_the_bold has joined #isdg-Embassy1 * brian_the_bold has quit IRC (Ping timeout) * miccofl_ has quit IRC (See y'all later!)

	04-10-2003 21:38									#197
	Increase the size of your Attachments

received from Octavian X

quote: ISDG: NAP Document APOLYTONIA AND FANATIKOU HEREBY AGREE: That we are brothers, bound together in our common desire to survive and prosper. As the world prospers most in times of peace, we wish for there to be peace between us. In order to ensure that peace we hereby agree to the following: 1) There shall be no war or conflict between us. Our units shall not attack each other, nor shall they enter the cultural borders of the other party without permission. This shall be considered a Non-Aggression Pact. There shall also be a 1-tile "buffer zone" around cultural borders. If this buffer must be breached for any reason, warning should be given in advance. 2) We agree to cooperate and communicate regarding any diputes over settlements or scouting. We agree to work out our differences in a chat, should any differences arise. 3) This agreement shall last 30 turns after it is ratified by both parties. This agreement shall be open for renegotiation after 25 turns have passed. ------------------------------------------------ Here you go. IIRC, this agreement ends on turn 147. ~Octavian X

	11-10-2003 06:22									#198
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

Chat with miccofl of CGN:

quote: miccofl> Is Trip on vacation? It took a day for CFC to resend. Or is he just getting tired of nagging? Arnelos> Trip? miccofl> Said he goes to CFC's chat room and nags them to send the turn Arnelos> true miccofl> I told brian to assist when possible Arnelos> lol Arnelos> Well, we just slapped OctX in our poly channel... since he lurks in some of our channels Arnelos> told OctX to get his people on it miccofl> well done, he took care of it brian_the_bold> i cant get in cfc irc chat room brian_the_bold> the embasy room Arnelos> You guys sent the wrong save to GWT Arnelos> sigh... Arnelos> I know it wasn't you Arnelos> But go slap around those that did Arnelos> 5:7D1 Arnelos> damn lackies can't do a damn thing right...1,8:P2,1 Arnelos> miccofl> don't these people realize the fastest way to get the turn resent is to reply to the email? miccofl> CDG used to cause delays by only posting to the forum miccofl> every time I replied to Soren that the wrong turn was sent he would reply with the correct turn, sometimes before I could post Arnelos> cool brian_the_bold> i reber the ..what was it 4 wrong turns before the right one got here? brian_the_bold> they sent wrong year there turn there in house game miccofl> no, just 2 miccofl> the one was their in-house game Arnelos> lol brian_the_bold> oh ...things just blending in then Arnelos> you should have cracked that one open to see how they play miccofl> Soren (as Ottoman) getting his butt kicked by Pat Dawson (as Egypt) Arnelos> brian_the_bold> for people that made the game they obviously dont know how to play it to its full potentioal miccofl> Soren made the fatal mistake of thinkint that he wouldn't be attacked brian_the_bold> lot of that going on Arnelos> sounds like this game miccofl> his strategy would have worked well vs the AI at regent, but vs humans (or a team of humans) was sorely lacking brian_the_bold> SL# and Furloaf regaled you with details of there isp game? miccofl> the direct IP game? I heard they were having fun brian_the_bold> were brian_the_bold> it's winding down brian_the_bold> fuloaf got hosed and out tacticed in the end brian_the_bold> in the ip games you can not use bombers they are buggy and crash the game brian_the_bold> unfortunatly he built 30 of them before he found out Arnelos> yuck miccofl> oooofff brian_the_bold> thats 3100 shields brian_the_bold> he had to disband Arnelos> yeah... that sucks miccofl> who built the bombers? brian_the_bold> and then to rub it in sL3 laned 12 transports of panzers brian_the_bold> furloaf miccofl> Furloaf is on dial-up brian_the_bold> he had the idea of sinking SL3 before he could invade miccofl> that is what crashed the game Arnelos> ah brian_the_bold> i have been on gamespy brian_the_bold> its the bombers brian_the_bold> in direct ip games bombers are buggy miccofl> my new video card recognizes Civ3 as a 3D game - the load of that on a dial-up connection.... brian_the_bold> furloaf has an 8 tech lead and modern armor and mec infantry but SL3 has done his dammage brian_the_bold> SL3 does not know it but he has cut furloaf from all aluminum miccofl> Sash and I are in a game (SL3 was eliminated) where we cannot access our current deals. We had to declare war to void a money for cities deal that was still paying me after 30 turns brian_the_bold> brb ............. (more useless banter) ............. Arnelos> yeah, they're pretty cranky about it - you hear what happened on CFC? miccofl> no Arnelos> apparently, some moron posted screenshots from the beta on CFC... really pissed BreakAway and Firaxis off miccofl> I can see that Arnelos> they posted that if people pull crap like that, they may not do another public beta miccofl> but - what can one expect from a forum that allows it's premier team to fall over 100 hous behind miccofl> I've given up on the counter miccofl> two teams who's time must be computed manually Arnelos> CFC is an industrious civ miccofl> I love oxymorons Arnelos> it's odd that, so far as we can tell, they haven't built very many workers Arnelos> thankfully, relations between CFC and Apolyton are VERY good, probably because we're both fighting GCA miccofl> explains their plave in the game miccofl> given may position it would be strange to see it otherwise miccofl> map, not may miccofl> our relations with GWT were good - while Grenouille seperated us Arnelos> right Arnelos> then you had to border them... which I know FROM EXPERIENCE, is not fun Arnelos> it's not my team's fault if we got to the good land first and claimed half the game's luxuries miccofl> I related your experience with the Ansar Arnelos> any comment on that? miccofl> I'm not sure it has sunk in yet miccofl> it was during our turn chat Arnelos> my bet is that they're doing the same thing in this game... wait for Chivalry, then strike Arnelos> the key advantage of the Ansar is that it's as fast on your own land as your own pikes and MI on roads miccofl> They better make it good, if we are still just taking potshots when we get Sipahi... miccofl> the isthmus is our friend ........ (some minor stuff about Ansar tactics) ........ miccofl> they have killed 4 units, we have killed 2 + a capture Arnelos> what types of units have they been using? miccofl> horsemen Arnelos> hmm... miccofl> we do not know what killed our expeditionary force on the mountains Arnelos> archers... horsemen... sounds like they haven't made much use of that captured iron yet miccofl> we have enounterd many regular pikes and a few reg MI Arnelos> ah, so they have been using it some miccofl> spearmen Arnelos> that's probably just lack of funds miccofl> eliminating any seen horsemen is our obvious prority Arnelos> one of the great things about playing Carthage... NM are better than pikes Arnelos> and no need for spear upgrades, though they do have the handicap of being 50% more expensive than spears Arnelos> horses on defense are real killers miccofl> any clues as to why CDG didn't strike first vs GC with their Immortals? Arnelos> they did... Arnelos> CDG went into GCA territory with a stack of immortals, which was then decimated by GCA horsemen miccofl> how big a stack? Arnelos> I honestly don't know, I wasn't around for that Arnelos> I'm sure others do Arnelos> not very big, from what I've heard Arnelos> something on the order of 6 miccofl> when it came to the end, at least from the account we have heard, they did not strike the attacking force that came against them, they defended Arnelos> CDG? yes, I believe that's right Arnelos> once they lost their initial little stack, they just defended miccofl> we have accepted our refuee BTW miccofl> refugee Arnelos> ah Arnelos> a CDG refugee? miccofl> yes Arnelos> who? miccofl> Louis XXIV Arnelos> (not that I'd have any idea... since CDG was already basically dead by the time I came back) miccofl> it's now a matter of record Arnelos> ah Arnelos> we've astrologix from Grenoule and will probably also accept Crousto if he comes over, the two Grenoule members that their team stole from us when the game started Arnelos> neither has posted yet, however miccofl> I don't think Grenouille would have had a game without Crousto Arnelos> Crousto's not bad, true Arnelos> I've played one of our ptw pbems with him miccofl> I can't say as I know Astrologix, unless you count the unit given his namesake that we killed Arnelos> lol Arnelos> Arnelos> both are on my team in the other team ptw game Arnelos> so they don't like GWT either miccofl> Arnelos> Crousto played Arabia in our internal pbem... didn't do too badly miccofl> actually that is too bad for them, they might have fared better if GWT would have intervened on their behalf miccofl> and Firaxis might still be alive... Arnelos> my understanding ist that GWT was a bit... busy Arnelos> trying to get their hands on iron miccofl> typical germans - have to plan everything long in advance miccofl> 1/2 of me suffers from that... miccofl> we were at war with Grenouille long before GWT engaged the Firaxians Arnelos> I think GWT just looked at the situation and figured they need iron more than keeping Grenoule alive miccofl> smart play actually miccofl> Grenuille got a really bad start - stuck between a rock and a hard place Arnelos> from seeing your map, it seems so Arnelos> jungle, too? brian_the_bold> they could have did much better with there land though Arnelos> they had good land? miccofl> no miccofl> they went south first when they should ahve gone north brian_the_bold> they had jungle but i have had lots worse brian_the_bold> yes they went wrong way brian_the_bold> navagational error Arnelos> miccofl> had they not built Port-Salut ( the pile of rubble next to Perris) they might still be alive brian_the_bold> i doubt that micco Arnelos> yeah, doesn't seem likely... miccofl> I said "might" brian_the_bold> LOL Arnelos> hell, they might have been better off if they'd managed to successfully confront and beat you guys far earlier Arnelos> they didn't, so you beat them miccofl> they certainly would have done better had they kissed our asses and done as they were told miccofl> Arnelos> lol Arnelos> what did you tell them? miccofl> first we told them not to cross our border miccofl> they did miccofl> 1st war Arnelos> there was more than ONE war? miccofl> ended the next turn Arnelos> granted, I read your history page, but I didn't pick up on that miccofl> we killed the offender and basicly said "What part of don't cross our border didn't you understand?" Arnelos> lol @ miccofl miccofl> offered peace or war on the next Arnelos> I take it they decided to leave you alone after that? miccofl> we told them we claimed all land south of Cantal and Cervoise (Agincourt and Waterloo) miccofl> they built a city; Port Salut near where Perris is now miccofl> we began planning Arnelos> sounds like the war was inevitable miccofl> they then found the first 3 history pages miccofl> we had our excuse miccofl> I don't think they cared for the Cheese Eating Surrender Monkey on page 2 Arnelos> I imagine not Arnelos> given the timing, however, hardly unexpected... this was during late Spring? miccofl> I remember changing several instances of France and or French from that bit of Dauphin's text and ensuring that it either read Grenouille or Frog miccofl> your timeframe is correct miccofl> it did make the explanation of Trois-Rivières difficult though

	13-10-2003 06:54									#199
	Tired of ads?

quote: Session Start: Sun Oct 12 18:05:32 2003 Session Ident: #demogame_cfc_embassy [18:05] * Now talking in #demogame_cfc_embassy [18:05] * Topic is ' 4Welcome to the Fanatikese Embassy - Trade Discussion - Joint Military Planning - Diplomatic Discussions ' [18:05] * Set by CivGeneral!~Simman198@2142b218. on Fri May 02 18:14:15 [18:05] [Trip] hello, we just sent the turn [18:06] [Trip] there's a couple things we'd like to ask for you to do this turn [18:07] [Octavian_X] then, ask [18:07] [Trip] the status of the iron near Sodapopolis... can you see the tile? [18:08] [Trip] or will you be able to see the tile this turn [18:09] [Octavian_X] IIRC, we SHOULD be able to see it this turn, but don't count on it. I've not seen a screenie for too long a time. [18:09] [Trip] okay [18:09] [Trip] second thing [18:09] [Trip] we'd like you to investigate Algalord this turn [18:09] [Trip] we would compensate you for the cost [18:09] [Bootstoots] we did see the tile, btw, and it had one horse, unroaded [18:09] [Trip] okay good, thanks Boots [18:09] [Trip] that's very good news [18:09] [Octavian_X] good news. [18:09] [Trip] the major battle of the war will likely take place this next turn [18:10] [Trip] they will be without Pikemen for it [18:10] [Octavian_X] We'll get you an Algalord screenie as well, assuming they haven't broken the cease fire. [18:10] [Trip] great, thanks [18:11] [Trip] just email it to me at TripGoT@hotmail.com [18:11] [Trip] once you get it [18:11] [Octavian_X] and, on your requests for our troop numbers... [18:12] [Octavian_X] We'll send off our troop numbers to you guys, on the condition that we get your troop numbers, as well as any conclustions that you've reached with those numbers. [18:14] [Trip] okay [18:14] [Trip] I will relay the message [18:15] [Trip] let me know once you get a screenshot of Algalord, I should be here still [18:17] [Octavian_X] sure thing. [18:19] [Octavian_X] Just so you know, that investigation puts us 56g in the bucket. 1,8 2,1 [18:19] [Trip] okay [18:19] [Trip] that won't be a problem :P [18:20] [Bootstoots] alright, Algalord investigated [18:20] [Bootstoots] do you want a list of the troops in that city? [18:20] [Trip] sure [18:23] [Bootstoots] it looks like they have 6 spears, 6 horses, and 4 swords, 3 of which are in an army [18:24] [Trip] elites/vets/regulars? [18:24] [Bootstoots] alright...coming up [18:25] [Trip] thanks [18:26] [Trip] if you could do 2 or 3 screenshots to get all of the units in we would appreciate it [18:27] [Bootstoots] ok [18:27] [Bootstoots] it looks like there are 6 full health vet spears [18:27] [Bootstoots] horses: 4/4 vet, 4/5 elite, 1/5 elite, 3/5 elite, 2 1/4 vets [18:28] [Bootstoots] there are two stand-alone swords instead of one [18:28] [Trip] Barracks? [18:28] [Bootstoots] they are 5/5 and 4/4 [18:28] [Bootstoots] yes [18:28] [Trip] okay [18:29] [Bootstoots] will your forces in the area be sufficient to handle them? [18:30] [Trip] probably [18:30] [Trip] or at least cripple them [18:31] [Bootstoots] it looks like that will be the decisive battle [18:31] [Bootstoots] the Battle of Algalord [18:31] [Trip] yes [18:31] [Trip] this battle will decide the war [18:32] [Chieftess] Sounds like GCA may be on their last leg. [18:32] [Trip] let's hope so [18:32] [Chieftess] Their occupation of our lands shall be avenged! [18:33] [Trip] hehe [18:35] [Bootstoots] what address is it again that you want these screenshots sent to? [18:35] [Trip] TripGoT@hotmail.com [18:41] [Bootstoots] did you get it? [18:41] [Trip] yes, it's here, thanks [18:42] [Bootstoots] good

	15-10-2003 10:15									#200
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

CFC answers to our troop request:

quote: [17:32] [Octavian_X] Let's see... Did we ever give our response on the request for troop lists? [17:35] [MZ[Cooking]] nope [17:35] [Octavian_X] ok, then.... [17:36] [Octavian_X] We'll agree to hand out that list, on the condition that we recieve any and all conclusions that are made with that information, and that we will recieve a similar list from Apolyton. [17:36] [MZ[Cooking]] ok sounds good [17:36] [Octavian_X] ok. [17:37] [Octavian_X] I'll remind my lackies to cimpile that list when we next get the turn... [17:37] [MZ[Cooking]] let me get it by the consuls later tonight but I am quite positive they will agree [17:37] [Octavian_X] *compile

	15-10-2003 10:16									#201
	Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

Accidentally closed the window before I recorded a log (d'oh!), but I did hold a chat with miccofl.

On the suggestion of E_T, I made sure to mention to miccofl that we had noticed ND had purposely gone without iron for a few turns, presumably to build lots of spearmen and warriors for a mass upgrade when they re-connect iron. miccofl said they had noticed as well and there had been a great deal of comment on their forums about it.

I also mentioned (at Trip's suggestion) that our last look at a GWT city indicated that GWT was very low on the science slider, corroberating the suggestion that they are preparing a mass upgrade.

As for CGN, they received an IN-GAME ONLY peace offer from GWT this turn with NOTHING in the form of out-of-game communication along with it. CGN has decided to poll this, which is the reason the game is being delayed for ~24 hours.

miccofl and I briefly discussed the high probability that if there is peace, it might work, but GWT is likely planning for an offensive after they get Chivalry and can upgrade horsemen to Ansars, start their GA, and build additional Ansars. Peace now seems perfectly reasonable if it gives CGN the advantage, but it's not clear who has the advantage with a peace right now.

miccofl stated that losses of units have been roughly equal on each side.

miccofl stated that all combats have occured in the field and no combat has involved cities.

That was basically it.

Last edited by Arnelos on 15-10-2003 at 10:49

	16-10-2003 01:06									#202
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

Just got this update from miccofl:

quote: Arnelos> how's that poll coming? miccofl> 69.23% for peace 30.77% for continued war. I set it to end at 5:45 PM EDT so we will start about 6 PM miccofl> we have had a 62% turnout for the poll so I'm not too woried about it only lasting a day Arnelos> right miccofl> It sometimes makes me think I should send an email everytime I post a thread but I refuse to be a babysitter Arnelos>

	16-10-2003 22:56									#203
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

The full chat last night with miccofl and company from CGN:

quote: Arnelos> who are things coming? Arnelos> *how miccofl> progressing Arnelos> you guys are playing the turn now? miccofl> yes Arnelos> cool Arnelos> did you send the peace offer back accepted? miccofl> yes, with 72.4% voting we got exactly the 2/3 we needed Arnelos> nifty Arnelos> wonder how long that will hold Arnelos> have you actually gotten in out-of-game contact with GWT? We've had some trouble, lately miccofl> none here Arnelos> hmm Arnelos> we've only had trouble in the past few days, but I figure that has to be problematic for negotiating a peace... GWT seems to be haphazard in terms of when they're available and they aren't Trip> they play the turn in a similar manner, so it's not surprising miccofl> it seems the reports of teutonic efficency are highly exagerated Trip> at least out-of-game :P * brian_the_bold has joined #isdg-Embassy1 Trip> so Trip> how bout them Yankees * miccofl snores - is Marlin's fan Trip> my family is from Illinois * Arnelos is an Orioles fan... hopes the Yankees get humiliated miccofl> Living in FL I can watch more Cubs games than Marlins games miccofl> damn blackouts Trip> game's on soon Trip> I should watch it Arnelos> miccofl - could you give us a time estimate on when we'll get the save? miccofl> 1-1 1/2 hr miccofl> tops Arnelos> thanks * brian_the_bold has left #isdg-Embassy1 * Arnelos is now known as Arnelos_getting_food Trip> almost ready? I have to leave in a few minutes miccofl> 10 min max Trip> okay miccofl> http://www.miccofl.net/30BCDemoGame.zip Trip> got it * SL3 has left #isdg-Embassy1 miccofl> Keep us posted on the bloodfest Arnelos_getting_food> well, we'll likely be sitting on the save for a little bit * Arnelos_getting_food is now known as Arnelos miccofl> might as well, everyone else is * Trip is now known as Trip[gone] miccofl> war is hell Trip[gone]> that goes without saying * miccofl is trying to get a sentiment for the turn Apolyton just recieved Arnelos> lol * Trip[gone] has quit IRC Arnelos> not all that much I can say, things are pretty bloody, though ............ Arnelos> miccofl - you there? miccofl> yes miccofl> forgot to buy batteries for the mouse - struggling with the old one Arnelos> oops Arnelos> sorry, been rather busy debating things inside poly Arnelos> you there? miccofl> yeah Arnelos> anyhow... Arnelos> here's what happened, just so you know Arnelos> On GCA's turn, they attacked with swords and horses and we lost a number of units, including a few NMs. GCA didn't lose a unit and our GA has not started. Arnelos> we also had catapults, so that didn't go as well as hoped Arnelos> Our attack went well, though * Furloaf has joined #isdg-Embassy1 Furloaf> Hello Arnelos> knocked down the wall with our catapults and then attacked with a bunch of Medieval Inf, killing a good number of GCA troops Furloaf> Heard this was the place to be Arnelos> Arnelos> On GCA's turn, they attacked with swords and horses and we lost a number of units, including a few NMs. GCA didn't lose a unit and our GA has not started. Arnelos> Arnelos> we also had catapults, so that didn't go as well as hoped Arnelos> Arnelos> Our attack went well, though Arnelos> * Furloaf has joined #isdg-Embassy1 Arnelos> Furloaf> Hello Arnelos> Arnelos> knocked down the wall with our catapults and then attacked with a bunch of Medieval Inf, killing a good number of GCA troops miccofl> take the city? Arnelos> no Arnelos> they have a few units left Arnelos> they'll probably raze it and run Arnelos> we brought in reinforcements miccofl> I hate it when that happens Arnelos> more NM, more MIs Arnelos> Catchopolis is going to be tough, it's on a hill and they'll have pikes miccofl> going for the kill? Arnelos> if they have enough pikes, we'll see Furloaf> sounds like a lot Arnelos> their army is dead, though... we killed it Arnelos> meaning leader-spawned army Arnelos> they still have units Arnelos> Arnelos> losses have been heavy on both sides * brian_the_bold has joined #isdg-Embassy1 Arnelos> I wasn't watching the turnchat, so I honestly don't know specfics Arnelos> it was bloody, though brian_the_bold> what does the power graph look like? brian_the_bold> big hit? miccofl> won't display this turn until next brian_the_bold> oh Arnelos> any hit to the power graph won't show until next turn Arnelos> crosspost Arnelos> they'll probably raze their own city again, though, so that will be felt as well miccofl> brb Arnelos> so you guys at peace with GWT now? miccofl> depends on them miccofl> sorry, had to post our screens miccofl> 29 screenshots and a log

	18-10-2003 05:08									#204
	Full PM-box? Change here!

from GWT:

quote: Hello Master Zen, we have a short answer about Netatolian, have you tried to convince Neta to stop war as proposed ? Cause we got an ingame offer of peace but no attendant mail nor an answer to our notes. For we are a peaceful nation which wants to prevent war in our whole world we wanted to ask if there is a way for you to end war ? What would be your needs for this ? Perhaps we can make peace on both continents as we started war on both. Furthermore we like to ask how war did started. We heard some rumors that really shook our trust in our growing relationship and endangering the trades we intended. feanor0815 webringen ambassador

	19-10-2003 00:15									#205
	Support Apolyton

Chat just now with CGN. I got permission from Master Zen to post what I did about the message we got from GWT. As for the stuff about why we're holding the save, I tried to make it at least resemble the truth enough to be believable and to be consistent with whatever Mongoose is likely to tell CGN (since Mongoose seems to have a habit of telling CGN things he shouldn't):

quote: brian_the_bold> hi Arnelos> hey brian_the_bold> what yall up to? Arnelos> various Arnelos> at the moment, not much brian_the_bold> will poly pass the turn today ? Arnelos> that depends on another team, actually Arnelos> we're waiting on something from Mongoose brian_the_bold> ok brian_the_bold> do you have any idea of a time frame? ...im just curious if we might see a turn before monday Arnelos> I really don't know Arnelos> Mongoose needs something from is GWT, who are notoriously unreliable on communication brian_the_bold> yes they are brian_the_bold> the webs like the late frogs seam to take 10 days to respnd to any mail Arnelos> btw... they finally sent us the last message from them yesterday, mentioned you guys briefly in it brian_the_bold> are you at liberty to discuss what they said? Arnelos> lemme ask Arnelos> cool, got clearance Arnelos> lemme copy and paste a bit for you brian_the_bold> thanks Arnelos> "we have a short answer about Netatolian, have you tried to convince Neta to stop war as proposed ? Cause we got an ingame offer of peace but no attendant mail nor an answer to our notes." - feanor Arnelos> Our answer is that we didn't even know of any "request" on their part to get CGN to stop the war (I certainly didn't know). Arnelos> It seems to me that GWT sent you guys the peace offer by accident, you guys sent it back accepted and GWT was surprised to get a peace offer from you. Arnelos> that said, they seem to believe (somehow...) that Apolyton was supposed to pass on something to you... if so, I was never told about it brian_the_bold> odd brian_the_bold> they have not communicated with us in some time brian_the_bold> mabey they sent something to micco...he will be back in a while so ill ask then Arnelos> ok brian_the_bold> i have to go to bowling ill see yah later ...thanks for the info Arnelos> no problem Arnelos> cya

	19-10-2003 04:37									#206
	Put an end to popups!

miccofl of CGN posted this in the CGN embassy channel for me while I was out grocery shopping:

quote: miccofl> Hello all, just read through the discussion of 1:45 ago and I see some discrepancies. The first offer of peace we got, was during the turn you are now holding. Yes, we did accept but they have not seen that yet and won't until CFC gets the turn from you and sends it on. I am beginning to question the truth in any and every statement made by GWT. miccofl> I have received no messages from them (GWT) - ever. When I do send something to them they either respond to brian or orange, or not at all. miccofl> As for you guys supposed to pass something on to us, we are as curious as you are to find out what it is.

	19-10-2003 06:07									#207
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

chat with mongoose at our chat room:

quote: [19:00] * mongoose201 has joined #isdgfamtalks [19:00] [mongoose201] Greetings [19:00] [mongoose201] anyone still around? [19:07] [Arnelos] hey [19:07] [Arnelos] what's up? [19:07] [Arnelos] I've been out for the past few hours... seems that discussion has been VERY active [19:07] * Arnelos slaps MasterZen[Eating] around with the Bush Doctrine! [19:10] [MasterZen[Eating]] hey [19:10] [MasterZen[Eating]] sorry back [19:10] * MasterZen[Eating] is now known as MasterZen [19:10] [Arnelos] I think he went idle [19:10] [mongoose201] I'm here [19:10] [Arnelos] cool [19:11] [MasterZen] great [19:11] [MasterZen] so, I guess you read the letter [19:11] [mongoose201] posting in the UN..brb [19:11] [Arnelos] MZ - everyone in the DDG submitted their moves early... should I wait out the last hour before posting adjudication results or give them the final hour to reconsider? [19:11] [MasterZen] if they submit they submit, I don't see why they would change them [19:12] [mongoose201] Posted..I took the heat on myself so everyone wouldn't think it was you guys alone holding up the turn [19:13] * nye-away is now known as nye [19:13] [nye] hello [19:13] [MasterZen] ok, thanks a bunch [19:13] [mongoose201] greetings [19:13] [MasterZen] I noticed Thors_Enkel was online at the UN forum while I was lurking a few minutes ago, I hope he sees it [19:14] [Arnelos] mongoose - just read your post - you rock [19:14] [mongoose201] he doesn't seem to be on right now [19:14] [mongoose201] hehe..I rock, eh? [19:14] [mongoose201] I haven't been told that in a while [19:15] [Arnelos] (chuckle) [19:16] [MasterZen] ok, just checked it out, excellent, again thanks for butting yourself in the fire for us [19:16] [MasterZen] *putting [19:16] [mongoose201] no problem..we don't need everyone knowing what we are up to... this HAS to be a private matter [19:16] [MasterZen] yep [19:17] [Arnelos] I agree with that 100%, no matter what *some others* may think' [19:17] * Arnelos glares at BigFree|Away [19:17] * MasterZen stares at BF too [19:17] [mongoose201] okay..I must have missed that one earlier [19:17] [Arnelos] [19:17] [mongoose201] [19:18] [Arnelos] seriously, though, until we're ready to go public with all available evidence if the case is strong enough, this indeed should remain quiet [19:18] [MasterZen] that's what some of us have been saying all day... [19:19] [mongoose201] yeah, I agree...this is not a public issue until there is a rule broken [19:19] [Arnelos] both to protect GCA from slander in the event (granted unlikely) that this remains fair play and because you don't WANT to go public until you have everything ready [19:19] [MasterZen] first and foremost this is a private petition that Apolyton has asked you to resolve, it is not something up for debate or discussionat the UN... unless we are proven correct [19:20] [mongoose201] Yes, I prefer to have enough to put out there at one time...like a bomb. If there is a problem of course, but like I said in my email. The odds that they are working against border on preposterous [19:20] [mongoose201] correct [19:21] [MasterZen] plus, we don't want other teams to think we are whiny *****es, you are the only one we allow to know we are in fact whiny *****es [19:22] [mongoose201] hehe...well, at this point, I've gotten used to whining *****es...not all of them from Poly either [19:23] [Arnelos] to be honest, we did not put all that much stock in previous claims of GCA "fantastic luck" until now [19:24] [mongoose201] yeah... The last time I checked their turn in this manner, I had no problems doing what they did, but I have to tell you, I never would have made the attacks they made...It seemed like suicide to me. That still didn't disprove that they were reloading, but how can you prove that [19:25] [Arnelos] I think one way would be to explore different possibilities... see how many of the possibilities of order of attacks and what to attack are better/worse than the one taken [19:25] [Arnelos] just a thought [19:25] [Arnelos] would be time-consuming [19:26] [mongoose201] sure, but the first go, I did exactly what they did.... Now..what they could have done, is if they were worried about the outcome, they could make the attacks, and if they didn't worked, then reload and not make them..or vice-versa [19:27] [Arnelos] that's one method [19:27] [Arnelos] the thing is... this case is extreme enough that reloading the save to prevent bad attacks may not be enough to fully explain the outcome [19:27] [Arnelos] and yet it might... if they both got very lucky AND they were reloading [19:27] [MasterZen] they would of course alwways give the "well, someone wins the lottery and look at the odds" but no one wins the lottery 3 years in a row... [19:28] [Arnelos] there are also millions of people playing the lottery... somebody has to win [19:28] [mongoose201] true..I've never had the luck that they have had...you guys had to be shocked when you opened the turn [19:28] [MasterZen] some of us, myself included, think that there's perhaps some very little known way of altering the RNG in a way most people don't know about [19:29] [Arnelos] there was definately a great deal of shock [19:29] [Arnelos] that said... it speaks to how much of an advantage we have in this war that we could STILL beat them despite the loss [19:29] [MasterZen] we had this guy in our strategy forum, called fanes7, said he would win on deity and get EVERY ancient wonder just by leaders. He could never prove it without reloading and perhaps doing something else [19:29] [mongoose201] that is a massive army you have there [19:30] [Arnelos] MZ - oh yeah... I forgot about that guy [19:30] [mongoose201] Every ancient wonder?...on Diety?... that would be one I would like to see [19:30] [MasterZen] yeah, no-one believed it, we set up a game for him to prove it and hen ever could [19:31] [Arnelos] probably just blowing smoke [19:31] [MasterZen] he showed pics of his game doing it [19:32] [MasterZen] so he did manage to do it somehow [19:32] [mongoose201] I've won once on Diety..and it was a clawing and scratching fight the whole way [19:32] [mongoose201] probably modded the rules, maybe? [19:32] [MasterZen] reloading seems to be just too burdensome to get the EXACT results you want, which is why perhaps there's some other way we don't know about [19:33] [Arnelos] well, we do know there are otehr ways to tweak the RNG table... but nothing incredibly substantial [19:33] [mongoose201] Is there a way they could determine where the Random Number is in the sequence? and determine the sequence? [19:34] [MasterZen] well, I don't know much about how that really works [19:34] [Arnelos] could we ask Gramphos about this? [19:34] [MasterZen] we could perhaps ask him if there's an easy way to hack the RNG [19:35] [mongoose201] It's far fetched, but if they could determine the sequence, and how each number comes up, and what affects it, you could line up your whole turn... very far fetched, of course [19:36] [Arnelos] you know... mongoose could easily prove it was cheating if he played their file, but wouldn't it be possible to use Gramphos' utility to just remove a few enemy units and wound your own? [19:37] [Arnelos] simulating the existence of combat without any taking place [19:37] [mongoose201] ?..I guess I've never heard of that one [19:37] [Arnelos] thing is... it woudl be incredibly easy to catch [19:37] [MasterZen] especailly but not triggering our GA... [19:38] [MasterZen] you know, if they had triggered it we really could have had no way of guessing if they were cheating that bad [19:38] [Arnelos] indeed [19:38] [mongoose201] yes, that's the thing that just baffles me...NO GA with all those NM's [19:38] [Arnelos] it's the lack of a GA that provides the underpinning for knowing how bad the odds are [19:40] [mongoose201] I'm overstating the obvious, of course, buy a GA right now for you guys would make your production, which is already great, explode [19:40] [Arnelos] oh, we know [19:40] [Arnelos] we've been planning this for ages [19:40] [MasterZen] literally in civ terms [19:41] [mongoose201] sorry if it takes me a sec to respond...I'm popping back here between plays in the football game [19:41] [Arnelos] ah [19:46] [mongoose201] hehe..Kentonio is sneaking around on 1bc...haven't seen him on in a while [19:56] [mongoose201] 1bc is being invaded! there is one regular (me), 4 from poly, and kentonio, and two guys who have never posted. lol [19:56] [Arnelos] who are the 4 from poly? [19:57] [mongoose201] It doesn't update that often...so it lists the ones who have been on recently... you, nye, ET, and masterzen [19:57] [Arnelos] yeah, I haven't been on in a while

	20-10-2003 12:24									#208
	Full PM-box? Change here!

Chat with miccofl of CGN about various things:

quote: * miccofl flips the giant hourglass over yet again... Arnelos> outa my hands miccofl> I understand that miccofl> I think that an explanation that is more valid than the one given at the UN is in order though BigFree> Yes, it must be frustrating to not know BigFree> but all questions must be directed to mongoose for now miccofl> Well even an expanation like "Team A is having an issue with Team B and is requesting the admin to verify the issue" would have been better than the "My email messed up" line of BS BigFree> I dont think anyone said "My email messed up" miccofl> Board: United Nations Forum miccofl> Thread: TIME COUNTER miccofl> miccofl> mongoose201 writes: Greetings to all ISDG teams... miccofl> miccofl> I have had some email problems. An issue has come up and I have asked Apolyton to hold the save for the time being. miccofl> miccofl> I need all teams to email me their last save that they sent on, to mongoose201AThotmailDOTcom. miccofl> miccofl> The quicker I get the files, the quicker the game will proceed. miccofl> miccofl> Thanks, and I apologize for the delays that my request has caused. miccofl> not those exact words but I was summarizing BigFree> It obviously sounds like all teams have not CC'ed their turns to mongoose as requested prior to now. miccofl> all teams have not posted their members list either but I don't see us holding on that miccofl> not that I want us to, either BigFree> If a problem has come up and he has not recieved the saves from all the teams, then he can not do any investigations if he should need to is the way I understand it. miccofl> I understand that, but clarification of what the issue is, is in order - without mentioning any team by name BigFree> that would be for mongoose to decide miccofl> it's more bad timing than anything - the world is at war, half of it (or more) is attempting peace - the timing is about as bad as it gets * MZ[Cooking] has joined #isdg-Embassy1 MZ[Cooking]> hello * MZ[Cooking] is now known as MasterZen BigFree> yes, and I completely understand how I would feel. LOL, because we feel that way too. BigFree> we want the game to get underway aas well BigFree> but we wait on mongoose's direction for now BigFree> Thank goodness and admin was set up for this game miccofl> he said he needed to light a fire under a few teams - I told him to throw some gasoline on the fire BigFree> HAHA BigFree> I wonder which teams need the most gas miccofl> I also suggested he get GWT's save from GC so failing that... miccofl> send the tanker over to CFC BigFree> so, he needs GWT's save... miccofl> or CFC's miccofl> he has ours - twice miccofl> and he can always download it if ne needs to BigFree> true miccofl> although I don't know if I ever mentioned that to him MasterZen> is GWT's the only one that's missing? miccofl> unsure, he said teams, not a team so he may be waiting on more than one Arnelos> the problem is, in part, as Mongoose described it to me, that he has not been CC'd by all teams on the save for some time now... GWT is one of those teams miccofl> When SL3 sent our turn on the last time he didn't have all the addresses, he got some from mongoose201 but the CC addy was not one of them - he has it now. That is the only time for over 100 turns that I am aware of that he has not received ours. Arnelos> obviously, CGN isn't the problem miccofl> I made a distribution list, it was so much easier miccofl> BTW do I still need to send to vondrack? Arnelos> BF? Arnelos> vondrack is still writing up after-turn reports, so I guess he still needs them BigFree> yes BigFree> we would appreciate that micofl miccofl> ok, it's just I never heard his name mentioned in some time miccofl> and it bounces every now and then Arnelos> he's the one who maintains the history of the game for us... reports for all of the turns. No, he's no longer a Consul, though miccofl> it's not a problem, just wanted to cut down on the flow of unneeded email if it was required miccofl> So has anyone figured out what GWT thought you were supposed to give us regarding our possible peace agreement with them? Arnelos> MZ? Arnelos> I honestly don't know, I wasn't told jack MasterZen> our warmest regards most likely miccofl> and here I was hoping for a bribe BigFree> LOL MasterZen> they didn't say anything specific as in in-game, or any written message miccofl> typically them MasterZen> they're likely using us as probes to try and gauge your willingness to keep on fighting Arnelos> that sounds about right BigFree> thats possible miccofl> we'll keep on fighting if that is what they want, but peace is always preferable - well almost always MasterZen> I honestly find it rather odd that they would send peace feelers when they were the ones who started the mess BigFree> I think it is a game bug miccofl> I really don't think they expected the war to last BigFree> not a peace offer Arnelos> maybe they got cold feet when they started losing units... wanna wait for Chivalry Arnelos> but I agree... it could be a game bug, we have seen this before MasterZen> yeah, has happened with us with GCA too MasterZen> and in the PTWDG miccofl> they sent a communication after they attacked to the effect of "There, we told you to get out" like they were expecting us to want an immediate peace Arnelos> yeah, you mentioned that to me before Arnelos> I honestly think they were hoping to start the real war with Chivalry... this conflict was simply designed to get you off their border in the meantime BigFree> imagine, in game, putting peace on the table so you can see what your opponent has available. You never intend to offer peace, but you put it on the table to get some info about the other team. Then when you exit it, even taking peace off the table, the game messes it up and still sends the offer of peace to the other team. I have sen this in other PBEM's. I really think it is just a bug/flaw in the game. MasterZen> perhaps they thought you were trying to pre-empt them before they got Chiv MasterZen> certainly they don't feel they are the aggressors, I can tell you that miccofl> I haven't seen this in other games, mostly because peace is so seldom an option miccofl> I have seen 2 people have to declare war to end a trade of lux/res/gpt for tech or lump sum because the deal won't end and entering the active deals screen crashed the game. Arnelos> that suck miccofl> And you couldn't declare war by retracting peace, you actually had to attack Arnelos> *sucks miccofl> I hope that doesn't happen with this one MasterZen> we had a bug regarding peace treaties in our PTWDG MasterZen> something about renegotiating, the game crashed miccofl> accessing the active deals screen caused the game to crash? MasterZen> i dunno, it affected the last team on the list but I think it had to do something regarding a deal made by others BigFree> this was back at 1.14f though BigFree> I think it may have been fixed miccofl> my instance was a week ago BigFree> doh miccofl> 1.27 miccofl> Sashaddin and I are the only humans left miccofl> We have a deal - given cities from me for Lump plus a large gpt miccofl> 30 turns have passed and he is still paying me the large gpt miccofl> try to renegotiate - crash Arnelos> that blows miccofl> he had to take a potshot (bombard) at one of my Destroyers with an Ironclad to break the deal miccofl> you still can't access the active deals screen in the game with either human - works ok on the AI

	20-10-2003 12:25									#209
	Got spare money?

LATER CHAT with brian the bold about GWT now being STRONG to us while CGN is WEAK to us and about his proposal for an eventual Apolyton-CGN alliance. While on the subject, CGN broached the matter of trust and faith in agreements... would have been a perfect time to bring up why we violated our agreement with GCA to honor agreements with CFC and CDG. I now have clearance from MZ to bring that up if such an opportunity arises in the future. We need to introduce this in our terms before CGN finds out from another source as GWT has.

quote: Arnelos> miccofl - you there? Arnelos> just got some information you guys would be VERY interested in Arnelos> and got permission to tell you about it BigFree> and, we jst sent the turn to CFC Arnelos> brian_the_bold - you there? Arnelos> miccofl - post as soon as you get in.... brian_the_bold> im here brian_the_bold> (&) brian_the_bold> hi yall sorry i was not paying attetion brian_the_bold> im going to be in a snit and not sleep at all now Arnelos> hey Arnelos> there you are Arnelos> you still there? brian_the_bold> sorry i was working on killing micco Arnelos> lol Arnelos> well, man have we got news for you brian_the_bold> i unleasd 45 saphi on him Arnelos> We attacked Algalord and lost a few units in the process... moved a few other units around... by the end of our turn, we were WEAK to GWT and STRONG to CGN... GWT still has no iron... so they're probably building warriors and horsemen brian_the_bold> you have my undevided attetion Arnelos> which means, at mininum, they are already 40% larger than your military and mostly building warriors and horsemen for later upgrades, we'd assume with unlinked iron brian_the_bold> can you tell me what the bs is with the trun sav? brian_the_bold> turn sav Arnelos> turn sav? brian_the_bold> mongoose did not hold the turn becouse he did not recive copys of the savs Arnelos> you'll have to ask Mongoose about that brian_the_bold> ok Arnelos> needless to say, when we saw we went to weak with GWT, we were a bit surprised brian_the_bold> i honestly dont know what the size of our army is right now brian_the_bold> warriors are cheep brian_the_bold> they can crank them in probably almost every city Arnelos> but warriors don't count for jack on the mil advisor "strength" Arnelos> mil advisor "strength" is actually scaled to unit value brian_the_bold> when iron is exsoused does it disapear off the map? Arnelos> yes Arnelos> it actually moves Arnelos> when critical resources exhaust, they move to a new location brian_the_bold> i have never experianced this brian_the_bold> did yall take Algalord? brian_the_bold> still here? brian_the_bold> hello? BigFree> no BigFree> alga still belongs to GCA BigFree> but we suspect the will disband it brian_the_bold> thats preaty dirty to do that brian_the_bold> Is Algalord the # 3 city in the game BigFree> yeah BigFree> they have already employed the burn and run tactic BigFree> so we figure it will continue BigFree> at least we wont have to worry about it turning BigFree> brian_the_bold> BigFree> We also figure they will have Pikes/MI's next turn BigFree> or the next at the very latest brian_the_bold> webringia? BigFree> no BigFree> GCA BigFree> We cut their Iron a while back BigFree> while they have the tech, they dont have the iron yet BigFree> the tech came from GL BigFree> I hate that Wonder BigFree> Arnelos> They might have gotten Literacy from GWT, though brian_the_bold> they did not even have lit? brian_the_bold> they find more iron? BigFree> no BigFree> sorry was away BigFree> we predict that they will use worker to reconnect the road BigFree> they killed our units that disconnected the Iron brian_the_bold> ok BigFree> yeah, that was what i though, that GWT tradd it to them brian_the_bold> how far behind was gc in techs? BigFree> So, in effect, GWT screwed us BigFree> way behind BigFree> GWT did not think they were srewing us, but it happened brian_the_bold> GET has a funny way of thinking brian_the_bold> gwt BigFree> GCA lacked Const and Currency and The Republic BigFree> and maybe more, I dont rember, but those for sure BigFree> So they got those plus Feud and Eng from the GL Arnelos> they were the only non-Middle Ages civ brian_the_bold> so is your team fairly upset over GWT's actions? Arnelos> Don't know how much of the team has really discussed the issue, but we're certainly not HAPPY about it brian_the_bold> It may sound like a silly question but i am going somewhere with this brian_the_bold> As you may know or not I am the Minister of State for CGN Arnelos> didn't remember your exact position, but go on brian_the_bold> Grungy is our ambasador to you but i run the state department Arnelos> ah, got it brian_the_bold> you are the head of foreign relations? Arnelos> Togas is Arnelos> who had his computer fried Arnelos> MZ is his deputy Arnelos> the consuls are notyoueither, MrWhereItsAt, and BigFree... when BigFree and NYE both had unavoidable abscenes from the game, I served as the Acting Consul... I was recently named Ambassador to CGN when we made contact brian_the_bold> I know you have your hands full with your problems with Gc but, given that your team is more than a little upset with GWT is there a posibility of an aliance with apolyton aginst GWT? Arnelos> I think it's fair to say that our hands are full with GCA at the moment Arnelos> besides, we don't have Astronomy or Navigation Arnelos> an "alliance" wouldn't mean much yet Arnelos> as for sharing techs, that seems to already be in the cards... GWT doesn't respond to our e-mails much brian_the_bold> given the state of the war it looks to me like it will not take a long time to finish off gc brian_the_bold> they are shrinking rapidly and they are destroying there own citys BigFree> we hope so Arnelos> it would be fair to say that the odds are in our favor Arnelos> that said, they now have feudalism BigFree> the next few turns will tell Arnelos> and Catchopolis is on a hill brian_the_bold> then you do intend to elemanate Gc from the game? Arnelos> not necessarily Arnelos> that's actually a point of debate brian_the_bold> if there down to a few citys it is more of a mercy killing than anything BigFree> Maybe if they ask for it we will oblige.... Arnelos> the key question is the cities of GCA that are nearer to CFC BigFree> yeah, CFC will likely want that land BigFree> It's prime brian_the_bold> do you think cfc will atack or that gc will gift them Arnelos> CFC will likely attack BigFree> GCA attacked CFC to take that land BigFree> so, CFC naturally wants it back Arnelos> exactly Arnelos> so there's something of a debate on our team as to whether we should push all the way Arnelos> I'll definately take your proposal of a potential alliance to the team, though... I'm SURE there's an element who will like the idea, but it will obviously get debated. Arnelos> My personal opinion, to be completely honest, though, is that I was thinking about just an alliance myself, but I don't know if it could have much utililty beyond a tech-sharing alliance until we have Navigation brian_the_bold> well i know things take time think it over and ill start things on this side brian_the_bold> to us finding a team that keeps to its agreements would be a relief brian_the_bold> well its very late for me and i need to go to bed ill leave the chat up though and ill be on in the morning... Arnelos> ok brian_the_bold> yall have a good night Arnelos> cya brian_the_bold> thanks for the info

	24-10-2003 04:02									#210
	Got spare money?

Record of miccofl informing BigFree and Trip about both Algalord's razing and about GWT declining peace with CGN:

quote: miccofl> Just in case you would care to start planning, Alagord appears to have been razed. BigFree> wow BigFree> thanks BigFree> Did GWt accept your peace offer? miccofl> no BigFree> I didn't think it was real...sorry BigFree> just a bug/flaw miccofl> we have at least opened a dialogue with them on the subject but there is much to settle before peace will be realized BigFree> They have repsonded to your mail? miccofl> depending on the outcome, it could be a feature and not a bug BigFree> lol miccofl> yes, they actually responded BigFree> we wait weeks..... miccofl> perhaps they are xenophobic * Trip has joined #isdg-Embassy1 miccofl> Hey Trip Trip> hiya miccofl> GC has certainly mastered the philosophy of scorched earth Trip> zhey burn to zee ground Trip> we got a friendly letter from them assuring that we would recieve nothing from the war BigFree> I'm starting to think they learned that from Trip Trip> preventing an enemy from acquring your resources is an art BigFree> Yes, but it also eliminates almost any sort of counter attack to reaquire it miccofl> nothing to reaquire Trip> when you assume you will never regain it then it's not a bad strategy Trip> if annoying Trip> it seems that every civ will practice it in this game though BigFree> well, the city and improvements along with the culture would be what I'm talking about; not just the land BigFree> No BigFree> CDG did not practic it BigFree> Nor did CFC, as of yet Trip> CFC never had the opportunity to do so miccofl> Nor have we Trip> I'm assuming that CDG hoped to hold the cities Trip> miccofl: of course... I'm guessing Grenouille wasn't bearing down on you with an army twice your size near your home cities miccofl> no, they were fighting a defensive war - they would occasionally harrass us with archers and horsemen but there was no "counter-assault" Trip> that is why you were never faced with the option of having to raze cities miccofl> and hopefully never will Trip> beware the Ansar hordes miccofl> GWT razed one before Firaxis could take it miccofl> We are aware of the Ansar menace and are taking steps to defend against it miccofl> now that we are able to build again Trip> yes Trip> especially given the fact as to how much stronger than you are now Trip> hehehehe Trip> GCA territory must have a funny shape now Trip> miccofl: are you guys playing the save now or waiting? miccofl> waiting miccofl> everyone is at school or work still Trip> okay miccofl> we should be sending it on this evening, I saw nothing that would merit a delay Trip> okay, good * SL3 has joined #isdg-Embassy1 * Trip has quit IRC