26-09-2003 09:34									#1
	Has the Bush administration signaled the end of conservatism? Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

I think that the Bush Administration has sufficently proved that conservatism just isn't a workable political philosophy. Have recent events sounded the death knell for conservatism?

	26-09-2003 09:36									#2
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bad troll, stupid post

EDIT: and I think that a century's worth of events have proved that communism is even less viable

	26-09-2003 09:37									#3
	Re: Has the Bush administration signaled the end of conservatism? Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

quote: Originally posted by monkspider I think that the Bush Administration has sufficently proved that conservatism just isn't a workable political philosophy. Have recent events sounded the death knell for conservatism?

No.

	26-09-2003 09:38									#4
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there are still a lot of conservatives about

and what I am pissed off at Bush about are not things that are conservative

I am pissed about the Patriot Act, and dishonesty with relation to Iraq

Republicans and Democrats behave the same way in office, by and large (Bush has not been very conservative)

Jon Miller

	26-09-2003 10:43									#5
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The Patriot Act in particular is something I'd like to see taken out, considering it takes away a number of rights that were supposed to be guaranteed to us since 1789. I for one would be a lot less worried if the government actually paid more attention to the Bill of Rights.

	26-09-2003 11:26									#6
	Re: Has the Bush administration signaled the end of conservatism? Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

quote: Originally posted by monkspider I think that the Bush Administration has sufficently proved that conservatism just isn't a workable political philosophy. Have recent events sounded the death knell for conservatism?

I'm a leftie -- but I definitely think you're in lala land, or dream land or somewhere way out there, if you think this as remotely realistic.

	26-09-2003 11:30									#7
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Isn't monkspider the guy that thinks Socialism will take over the world in 20 years?

	26-09-2003 13:08									#8
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You have just won the Stupid award, monkspider. (2)

	26-09-2003 15:47									#9
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What exactly is 'conservative' about the Bush regime?

Its adherence to the principle of limited government?

Its avoidance of massive deficits?

Its respect for what the Constitution called 'a republican form of government?'

???

	26-09-2003 16:02									#10
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Ok, when the Bush admin is not conservative what is it?

	26-09-2003 16:12									#11
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quote: Originally posted by DanielXY Ok, when the Bush admin is not conservative what is it?

They favor an authoritarian, militarized government that seeks to roll back civil liberties and that rules on behalf of corporations rather than citizens. They place might above right. They seek to stifle all dissent, telling Americans that they'd "better watch what they say." They've created false threats in order to consolidate their power and achieve their aims. They've cast aspersions on the patriotism of anyone who has dared to question them.

That's pretty much your textbook definition of fascism. A kinder, gentler fascism, to be sure, but fascism nevertheless.

	26-09-2003 16:42									#12
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I am a conservative and I question much of what this president does to further true conservatisim. I agree with lowering taxes but spending needs to be reduced along with the tax cuts. Everyone is too scared to do this. The idea that Bush squandered the "surplus" though is absurd. The "surplus" was a big bubble that began to deflate while Clinton was still in office. We are paying the price now for the speculation of the 90's. But people are dependant on the government now so they will rebel at almost any reduction in government spending. So, in that sense, I don't think that we will ever return to tax cuts along with reduced spending. So we have conseratism in name only.

As far as the Patriot Act goes, I think it is an insult to all Americans who still believe in the concept of individual rights.

	26-09-2003 16:43									#13
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Fascism IS something conservative.

	26-09-2003 17:24									#14
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I think it's pretty clear that one of these is true:

1)Bush doesn't know what a conservative is (or else he'd be acting like one).

2) Bush is not really a conservative.

3) Bush wants to be a conservative but will say or do just about anything to get reelected including doing some very unconservative things.

My money's on 3.

	26-09-2003 20:34									#15
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quote: My money's on 3.

Really? I think it's pretty clearly 1).

	26-09-2003 20:49									#16
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quote: Originally posted by Ecthelion Fascism IS something conservative.

No, fascism is something right-wing. But fascism is no more something conservative than communism is something liberal.

	26-09-2003 20:54									#17
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Hopefully the Bush administration has signaled the end of the Bush administration. Conservatism can stay and probably will.

	26-09-2003 22:03									#18
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"Conservatism" is a relative thing... it will always be around.

	26-09-2003 22:07									#19
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Even if Bush was entirely conservative and if his policies obviously failed, that wouldn't mean that conservatives would necessarily connect the dots and give up. They'd probably just say "bad data point", make up an excuse for why it didn't count and continue (or, more likely, say it failed because it "wasn't conservative enough"...witness any time conservative economic policies are put in effect, for example). Same with liberals. I think you're assuming way too direct a connection between people's beliefs and "reality". The obvious proof is that there are still state communists and Stalinists around.

	26-09-2003 22:14									#20
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Bush is a conservative, because he is an elitist pig. He doesn't care about the less fortunate. All the rest of you conservatives who talk about small govt can stick that crap somewhere else. You guys elected him from the republican party. He's your boy.

	26-09-2003 22:17									#21
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Being conservative does not mean that we don't care, it just means that we aren't going to give the sheit away.

	26-09-2003 22:33									#22
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quote: Originally posted by Japher Being conservative does not mean that we don't care, it just means that we aren't going to give the sheit away.

It must be hard to have sympathy for someone but not to do anything about it, because of your own greediness.

	26-09-2003 22:33									#23
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sure, why not?

it's friday. let's all go get smashed.

	26-09-2003 22:35									#24
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quote: Originally posted by Kidicious It must be hard to have sympathy for someone but not to do anything about it, because of your own greediness.

I hope that this is just a troll, and you seriously don't think about conservatives in this excessively biased way.

	26-09-2003 22:37									#25
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i guess you guys aren't happy drunks, are you?

	26-09-2003 22:38									#26
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quote: Originally posted by MrFun I hope that this is just a troll, and you seriously don't think about conservatives in this excessively biased way.

You tell me why I shouldn't.

	26-09-2003 22:41									#27
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quote: Originally posted by Kidicious You tell me why I shouldn't.

And some liberals wonder why conservatives get so snappy with us in return.




I have trolled Republicans or conservatives on here, but they were not meant to be taken seriously.

	26-09-2003 22:49									#28
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quote: It must be hard to have sympathy for someone but not to do anything about it, because of your own greediness.

*Japher bites!

It is hard, a lot harder than being walked on by whinning selfish brats who want the state to spoil them rotten and shove a silver spoon up their butt, because the feel they DESERVE it.

Liberal programs are bunk, as far as I am concerned. They do nothing to help someone better their life, instead the make it easier for those people who use the programs to maintain their poor standard of life. If I am greedy because I want people to work for themselves, look out for themselves, and support their own families so that I do not have to do it for them as I am having a hard enough time fending for myself and my family... then so be it.

I want to help, but how am I suppose to help those who won't help themselve or don't want to be helped?

	26-09-2003 22:54									#29
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quote: Originally posted by Japher If I am greedy because I want people to work for themselves, look out for themselves, and support their own families so that I do not have to do it for them as I am having a hard enough time fending for myself and my family... then so be it. I want to help, but how am I suppose to help those who won't help themselve or don't want to be helped?

Your assumption that people don't want to help themselves is a very poor cover up for your greed. This is so ridiculous that I can't even laugh. Honestly, is this the best cover up you can use. I mean of course people want to help themselves.

	26-09-2003 22:55									#30
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quote: Originally posted by Japher *Japher bites!

Well, you said it...

quote: Liberal programs are bunk, as far as I am concerned. They do nothing to help someone better their life, instead the make it easier for those people who use the programs to maintain their poor standard of life. If I am greedy because I want people to work for themselves, look out for themselves, and support their own families so that I do not have to do it for them as I am having a hard enough time fending for myself and my family... then so be it.

Famous liberal programs:
a. Social Security
b. Medicare
c. Guaranteed Student Loans
d. Rural Electrification

Pick one and defend your views. Ready?...GO!