27-09-2003 23:55									#1
	Peace Is Sexy Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

When I turned on my radio today, the guest was talking on this topic. She had been an Olympic Athelete, and now said she was applying the same ideas in working as a UN spokesperson for peace. She said every Olympian she knew got there by having a strong desire, and that her goal was to instill the desire for peace in everyone by making them realize the benefits.

I thought about all the anti-war statements I've made in my life, few of them were pro-peace. I've failed to seduce others to it.

In '89 I was working to get signatures on an Affordable Housing Petition, my co-ordinator who was #1 among 30, gave us the advice all co-ordinators gave : be aggressive. Here was a gorgeorous woman who thought aggressivity was more effective than kindness, I decided she must be right. Then the Loma Prieta quake hit, and I didn't want to push people, so I smiled alot, my numbers shot up and stayed up. I told a friend who'd been in sales 10 years, and he said of course, when you're nice to people they become agreeable. How Simple!

I'm not saying never fight a war, but as a long range strategy, because war may humanity, seducing our enemies is to peace is a very effective stategy.

	28-09-2003 00:00									#2
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Amen! I think if Dubya had offered to give Saddam a rim-job the whole search for the WMD's could have been taken care of very quickly and without loss of life.

	28-09-2003 00:03									#3
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Difficult question

War sucks.

	28-09-2003 00:04									#4
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I don't think this thread will last long...

	28-09-2003 00:06									#5
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Excellent in theory, impossible in practice.

	28-09-2003 00:07									#6
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Unless you work it so that you only have one nation, of course.

	28-09-2003 00:09									#7
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Oh, sure. All the USA gets along.
All of Britain gets along.

	28-09-2003 00:09									#8
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Sloww: Not really, if we all re-evaluate our objectives, we don't need war. We only have it because some people set sights on such a target that it requires deaths. If we stick to our proverbial guns, then our real ones will keep firing.

	28-09-2003 00:11									#9
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quote: Originally posted by SlowwHand Oh, sure. All the USA gets along. All of Britain gets along.

I was thinking more along the lines of making the world into the Empire of Texas. Now I ask you, who wouldn't want to embrace that marvelous culture?

	28-09-2003 00:11									#10
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

Incorrect Elijah.
"There will always be war, and rumors of war."
So it is written.
You can't leave out the known factor that there will always be bullies in the world.
No, not like the U.S.; I mean like Hussein, Bin Laden, etc.

	28-09-2003 00:11									#11
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quote: Originally posted by elijah If we stick to our proverbial guns, then our real ones will keep firing.

Nice line. Did you get it from a t-shirt?

	28-09-2003 00:14									#12
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*Starts to raise hand, but decides not to be antagonistic and puts it down again*

	28-09-2003 00:14									#13
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quote: Originally posted by FrustratedPoet I was thinking more along the lines of making the world into the Empire of Texas. Now I ask you, who wouldn't want to embrace that marvelous culture?

Poet, you're one of the most sensible people I know.

	28-09-2003 00:19									#15
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Well, the Taliban did need to be taken out the moment they started imposing their will on universities. If 9/11 was all it took for the US to start inadvertently helping the cause of human rights, then I say there should be more 9/11s.

* St Leo arranges for some

* St Leo calls Bush

Me: Bush, my good old bud.
Bush: Who is this?
Me: Listen, someone just flew three 777s into the Seattle Skyneedle.
Bush: Dammit, the CIA was not supposed to do that for another... err, oh my.
Me: The CIA? No, no, no. It was organized by the pro-female-circumcision leader from Sudan.
Bush: This is the last straw. We are going to invade Sudan and Iraq.
Me: Iraq?
Bush: I know that dastardly Saddam is behind this too. The South Park Movie told me so.
Me: Well, the world community is behind you in Sudan, but...
Bush: They are either with me or against me! The cowardly Iraqi attack on the Seattle thingumajig must be avenged.
Me: Talk to you later then, friend.
Bush: Yeppers.

	28-09-2003 00:49									#16
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Personally, the thrill and adrenaline of going over the top in some mega trench style warfare, charging across like and animal, fighting for no reason except to for the sake of fighting, the shouting, the roars, the bombs, even once, seems more apealling then a ****.

	28-09-2003 00:52									#17
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I am talking about a long range strategy, because the cause of war is hate. Both my parents were Holocaust survivors, I KNOW sometimes there is no alternative. However, we might have avioded Hitler's rise if we had treated Germany with the some respect. The Marshall Plan disarmed Germany, The Treaty of Versillises enraged them.

Peace is a superior product. One front against Al Queda should be winning Muslim converts to this idea, and the cruelest thing IMHO we can do to Bin Laden is convince people not to listen to him.

	28-09-2003 00:59									#18
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quote: Originally posted by realpolitic the cruelest thing IMHO we can do to Bin Laden is convince people not to listen to him.

Saluti

	28-09-2003 01:03									#19
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quote: we might have avioded Hitler's rise if we had treated Germany with the some respect. The Marshall Plan disarmed Germany, The Treaty of Versillises enraged them.

I am afraid to say, but this understates a highly complex issue.

	28-09-2003 01:07									#20
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quote: Originally posted by The Andy-Man I am afraid to say, but this understates a highly complex issue.

I just want you to look outside the box.

	28-09-2003 01:12									#21
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quote: Originally posted by realpolitic I just want you to look outside the box.

What box


What I was trying to say is, the rise of Nazism goes deeper then just German infuriation, I mean, by 1929-33, most germans weren't to het up about it anymore, it had become 'history' as they say, the Wiemar constitution and the great depression were much more important factors in Hitlers rise, but even then it goes a bit deeper, its not like just anyone voted for the nazi's, and its not like they voted for them on single issue reasons either.

	28-09-2003 01:16									#22
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

quote: Peace is a superior product. One front against Al Queda should be winning Muslim converts to this idea, and the cruelest thing IMHO we can do to Bin Laden is convince people not to listen to him.

Yes, there are a great deal of moderate Muslims who just want peace, who don't want to harm the US. If you isolate the jihaddists from the rest of the mainstream, then people will not listen to them.

That's why it is more important that the US does not mess up on the reconstruction, if people see that they are better off, they will not be so interested in making war.

I'm a pacifist, part of the reason is that the merciful will be granted mercy. As a pacifist, no one feels threatened.

	28-09-2003 01:48									#23
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quote: Originally posted by The Andy-Man What box What I was trying to say is, the rise of Nazism goes deeper then just German infuriation, I mean, by 1929-33, most germans weren't to het up about it anymore, it had become 'history' as they say, the Wiemar constitution and the great depression were much more important factors in Hitlers rise, but even then it goes a bit deeper, its not like just anyone voted for the nazi's, and its not like they voted for them on single issue reasons either.

Part of the reason The Depression was so severe was the stupity of both sides in the condition that Germany pay a billion Deutchmarks reperations. The Gemans printed so much money prices could double in hours so workers were paid twice a day. They needed to spend their pay during what would have been their workday, worsening the Depression.

	28-09-2003 01:57									#24
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It would help peace immeasurably if we could destroy the myth that wars are necessary for technological progress. They are not!

	28-09-2003 02:10									#25
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quote: You can't leave out the known factor that there will always be bullies in the world. No, not like the U.S.; I mean like Hussein, Bin Laden, etc.

So you mean that the actions of others will make war unavoidable on our part? Realistically, the only place for war is self-defence, and the last time this happened to Britain was 1940 (ignoring the Falklands, but that was all about oil anyway). The last time we could legitimately go to war with Hussein was in defense of someone he attacked, i.e. Kuwait. Of course, Iran should have been defended but oohh no . In all other cases, peace man.

I can rollock my own society and try to make us pacifist according to that guideline, but I would ideally be able to do the same to all. If noone attacked anyone else, there would be no need for war. Simple really... and its not impossible.

	28-09-2003 02:13									#26
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quote: Originally posted by elijah Of course, Iran should have been defended but oohh no .

Why would you advocate defending an agressor? I thought that you were a pacifist?

	28-09-2003 02:13									#27
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quote: Nice line. Did you get it from a t-shirt?

No. I'm a writer, I intend to make a career out of spontaneously producing cheesy lines like that!

	28-09-2003 02:15									#28
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quote: Why would you advocate defending an agressor? I thought that you were a pacifist?

Sorry, the Iran-Iraq war? I was under the impression that it was Iraq that started it .

	28-09-2003 02:17									#29
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Iran can kiss off, too.
Nation of jackasses.
Ayatollah Khomeini's boy, back mouthing off again.

	28-09-2003 02:18									#30
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quote: Originally posted by elijah I was under the impression that it was Iraq that started it .

It's a mistaken impression.