30-09-2003 19:37									#1
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An hour ago or so I discovered I could access the Victoria beta forum. I of course read a few threads etcetera. After a while I was unable to access the forum further as they probably discovered their mistake. I was still able to view and post in the rest of the forum though. But after half hour or so I couldn't access the Paradox forum at all anymore. I get the standard message:

quote: You do not have permission to access this page. This could be due to one of several reasons: 1. You do not have permission to access the page that you were trying to. Are you trying to edit someone else's post or trying to access administrative features? Check that you are allowed to perform this action in the Forum Rules. 2. If you are trying to post, the administrator may have disabled your account, or it may be awaiting activation.

Am I the only getting this? Would I be banned or something?

	30-09-2003 19:50									#2
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downloading materials is not exactly a smart thing...
all downloaders are now outlaws in the Paradox forum.

	30-09-2003 19:51									#3
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It is theft in fact.

You say in the post above that you realised it was a mistake.

Others had the decency to let us know.

Last edited by uglyduck on 30-09-2003 at 20:05

	30-09-2003 20:05									#4
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Ah I see. A bit late now, but: Sorry.

Is there any chance I would be allowed again after Victoria is released?

	30-09-2003 20:08									#5
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eh, if they goof up they should expect people to take advantage of that. If they want to ban people for looking in a forum that they where given access to (albeit, by mistake) well, that's their decision. But it's just alienating fans for their own mistake.

	30-09-2003 20:09									#6
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quote: Originally posted by uglyduck You say in the post above that you realised it was a mistake. Others had the decency to let us know.

Well I did post it in one of those threads on the subject before it was deleted.

	30-09-2003 20:14									#7
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quote: Originally posted by Osweld If they want to ban people for looking in a forum that they where given access to (albeit, by mistake) well, that's their decision. But it's just alienating fans.

True in a way. The downloading was done in an impulse, with my connection in a matter of seconds. And it's not like I had any bad intentions, so banning won't help anyone.

	30-09-2003 20:15									#8
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quote: Originally posted by Osweld eh, if they goof up they should expect people to take advantage of that. If they want to ban people for looking in a forum that they where given access to (albeit, by mistake) well, that's their decision. But it's just alienating fans for their own mistake.

Well, he downloaded stuff that wasn't allowed to download... so he is "stealing"...

EDITED:
and

quote: Originally said by Johan: so, if you forget to lock the door to your house one evening, everyone would be allowed to walk in and grab what they wanted?

	30-09-2003 20:16									#9
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Ok, something was messed up but that doesn't validate this

quote: Originally posted by M@ni@c I downloaded the design document. Anyay, this thread will get deleted soon...

Or to download a beta version from a link found in the mentioned forum... I'm not saying that Maniac did that but others did and they are benned too!


Patric

	30-09-2003 20:18									#10
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quote: Originally posted by Generalisimo Well, he downloaded stuff that wasn't allowed to download... so he is "stealing"...

It was right there before my eyes. I'm not a saint all right. If I could now undo it, I would, but that's kind of impossible.

	30-09-2003 20:18									#11
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quote: Originally posted by Maniac True in a way. The downloading was done in an impulse, with my connection in a matter of seconds. And it's not like I had any bad intentions, so banning won't help anyone.

So basicly because you didn't know better, they should forget and forgive?

	30-09-2003 20:19									#12
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quote: Originally posted by Maniac It was right there before my eyes. I'm not a saint all right. If I could now undo it, I would, but that's kind of impossible.

You should have thought of that a bit sooner...

	30-09-2003 20:21									#13
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quote: Originally posted by Maniac It was right there before my eyes. I'm not a saint all right. If I could now undo it, I would, but that's kind of impossible.

well, you didn't need to post that in the forum neither...

	30-09-2003 20:23									#14
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quote: Originally posted by Patric B Or to download a beta version from a link found in the mentioned forum... I'm not saying that Maniac did

I didn't.

Anyway, judging from your responses I presume nothing I say will change a thing, so I guess I'll shut up about it...
At least I can still access the downloads page, so I can download possible future patches. But no user mods.

	30-09-2003 20:23									#15
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quote: Originally posted by Osweld eh, if they goof up they should expect people to take advantage of that.

So if people e.g. accidentally find the vault to a bank open they are free to help themself to some spare cash?

	30-09-2003 20:23									#16
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quote: Originally posted by Generalisimo Well, he downloaded stuff that wasn't allowed to download... so he is "stealing"...

The point is that they did allow him to download it. It's not like he hacked into their servers and took it from behind a security system or something.

They gave him access to it.

	30-09-2003 20:26									#17
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quote: Originally posted by Osweld The point is that they did allow him to download it. It's not like he hacked into their servers and took it from behind a security system or something. They gave him access to it.

but he knew he wasn't allowed to download, but he did it anyway... just like Johan or havard said, if it isn't "locked" it doesn't allow you to do what you want...

	30-09-2003 20:26									#18
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quote: Originally posted by Osweld The point is that they did allow him to download it. It's not like he hacked into their servers and took it from behind a security system or something. They gave him access to it.

So he didn't do anything wrong in your opinion?

weird sense of honesty you have...

	30-09-2003 20:26									#19
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quote: Originally posted by Havard So if people e.g. accidentally find the vault to a bank open they are free to help themself to some spare cash?

If a bank leaves their vault open and their doors unlocked, they shouldn't expect the money to be there in the morning. That's all I'm saying.

	30-09-2003 20:26									#20
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quote: Originally posted by Osweld The point is that they did allow him to download it. It's not like he hacked into their servers and took it from behind a security system or something. They gave him access to it.

See my reply above, and Johans quote above.

	30-09-2003 20:28									#21
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quote: Originally posted by Osweld If a bank leaves their vault open and their doors unlocked, they shouldn't expect the money to be there in the morning. That's all I'm saying.

Of course not!

But you probably agree that there should be some consequence for the one taking the money, right?

	30-09-2003 20:28									#22
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He didn't do anythign wrong in my opinion, no. But that's not the point I am making - I'm simply saying that they are punishing people for their own mistake, and if that's what they want to do, fine. Their choice. But as I said, they're just alienating fans for their own goof up.

I've never seen such fast replies in this forum before.

	30-09-2003 20:28									#23
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quote: Originally posted by Osweld If a bank leaves their vault open and their doors unlocked, they shouldn't expect the money to be there in the morning. That's all I'm saying.

but the people who take money from the open vault are not stealing?....

	30-09-2003 20:31									#24
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This isn't the same as robbing a bank, guys.

	30-09-2003 20:32									#25
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quote: Originally posted by Osweld The point is that they did allow him to download it. It's not like he hacked into their servers and took it from behind a security system or something. They gave him access to it.

Noone "allowed" anyone to download either beta versions or design documents. Something glitched in the forum software. We have now realized there are three kinds of people on our forums.

1. Those who just carry on, business as usual.
2. Those who let us know about the problem.
3. Those who take advantage of the situation.

Those in category 2 have a large chance of getting something back for being honest about it.

quote: Originally said by Johan: so, if you forget to lock the door to your house one evening, everyone would be allowed to walk in and grab what they wanted?

Btw, you reason as if the quote from Johan is the way it should be then?

	30-09-2003 20:33									#26
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quote: Originally posted by Osweld The point is that they did allow him to download it. It's not like he hacked into their servers and took it from behind a security system or something. They gave him access to it.

He wasnt given access. He *knew* it was a mistake and he took advantage. He also tried several times using different passwords before he got it - i.e. he *hacked* the password. We have logs showing this.

Dont matter which way you cut it - he is banned.

Last word from me ....

	30-09-2003 20:34									#27
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I probably violated intellectual rights or something.

	30-09-2003 20:39									#28
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quote: Originally posted by uglyduck He also tried several times using different passwords before he got it - i.e. he *hacked* the password. We have logs showing this.

What!?! I'm sorry but I have no idea what you are talking about.

	30-09-2003 20:40									#29
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quote: Originally posted by Maniac I probably violated intellectual rights or something.

you messed up, is what you did....

	30-09-2003 20:43									#30
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quote: Originally posted by Patric B Noone "allowed" anyone to download either beta versions or design documents. Something glitched in the forum software. We have now realized there are three kinds of people on our forums. 1. Those who just carry on, business as usual. 2. Those who let us know about the problem. 3. Those who take advantage of the situation. Those in category 2 have a large chance of getting something back for being honest about it. Btw, you reason as if the quote from Johan is the way it should be then?

You don't want to get me started on "intellectual property" laws, downloading files will never be comparible to theft in my opinion. But even so, this isn't as extreme as robbing someone's house, or a bank, it's just some beta stuff for a computer game.

Eitherway, it doesn't matter one way or the other to me if you ban people, I was just pointing out that the mistake was on your end, and punishing people for taking advantage of it isn't neccisarily the best course of action. But as I said, that's your choice.

quote: He also tried several times using different passwords before he got it - i.e. he *hacked* the password. We have logs showing this.

That would make things a bit different, ofcourse, but I was under the impression people where just given access to the beta forum through a goof up in the servers. What would he need a password for?