30-09-2003 22:04									#1
	Would immortality destroy religion? Full PM-box? Change here!

Suppose through biotechnical engineering we were able to become technically immortal. Sure, we'd still die in accidents or as a result of murder or war, but disease and old age would be a thing for animal selves we leave behind.

Without the fear of death, the loss of self in the infinate oblivion, would people still have a need for a deity (or dieties)? If you're never going to recieve your eternal reward or damnation, why continue to follow the religion of the flesh? I'm not talking about a decent into chaos where there are no rules or ethics.

What would be the religious response? How would fundimentalist relgious types see this? Would they say that we are violating God's will, tasting from the Tree of Life and thus becoming like him (to paraphrase Genisis)?

	30-09-2003 22:07									#2
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Statistically, we'd know that an accident/war/terrorism would get us eventually

	30-09-2003 22:10									#3
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an immortality treatment if only given to people in the developed world, will swiftly lead to it's collapse. Who would like to take part in wars, if you can get killed?

OTOH, that robot army sounds like a swell idea right now.

	30-09-2003 22:14									#4
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I am not just a Catholic because I am expecting something from God in the afterlife, I hardly think I would be happier as an athiest.

	30-09-2003 22:15									#5
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quote: Originally posted by Azazel an immortality treatment if only given to people in the developed world, will swiftly lead to it's collapse. Who would like to take part in wars, if you can get killed?

Interesting . . . I bet we'd be a lot more willing to use overwhelming force. We won't go to war with you mortals, we'll just drop the neutron bomb on you. Why risk our immortal lives to kill vermin?

	30-09-2003 22:44									#6
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I think it would lead to a sort of superhumanism. Man would see himself as a god. You would probably see a new religious movement where Man would worship himself. After all, if you are immortal, then you have a divine-like characteristic, so it would not be a far stretch to start seeing yourself as your own god.

	30-09-2003 22:48									#7
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Meaningless question.

Much like if a cat was a dog.

	30-09-2003 22:55									#8
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Many religions believe in virtuous rewards in this life. Judaism is one of the more familiar ones. I think it is mostly Christians and Muslims that might have a problem with virtual immortality and then, only a fraction of them.

	30-09-2003 22:58									#9
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quote: You would probably see a new religious movement where Man would worship himself.

I think worshipping is a waste of time. But I think humans will be more certain of their ability to achieve whatever they wanted, and therefore, other 'dreams' will ensue.

quote: Interesting . . . I bet we'd be a lot more willing to use overwhelming force. We won't go to war with you mortals, we'll just drop the neutron bomb on you. Why risk our immortal lives to kill vermin?

OTOH, this drug probably won't be THAT expensive. It will also dramatically emprove the economy EVERYWHERE.

	30-09-2003 23:06									#10
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Again, I say: ngh.

If you begin with the standard assumption that religion-is-a-tool-of-delusion-for-the-stupid-and-desperate, as seems to be the case here, the argument is irrelevant, as religion would be altogether unnecessary if there were no chance that it was true. If you believe that a religion might be true, the important question is which one. Either way, immortality drugs have no bearing.

As for whether people would be inclined to believe in God, of course that would drop like a stone in such circumstances, because we have a tendency to treat the present as eternity, and given security we turn fat and complacent as cattle. Religion would be more necessary in such cases, just as a way of jolting us off our fat rears.

	30-09-2003 23:59									#11
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There are more reason to follow a religion than just fear of damnation.

But, what the diplomat said would probably happen. People would begin worshiping themsleves. Think of the over population problems

	01-10-2003 00:00									#12
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We already worship ourselves, just not overtly. And why not? We are pretty damned amazing after all.

	01-10-2003 00:16									#13
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quote: Originally posted by chegitz guevara We already worship ourselves, just not overtly. And why not? We are pretty damned amazing after all.

Worshipping is kinda lame, but we surely can be proud of ourselves.

	01-10-2003 00:22									#14
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I doubt it... perhaps death would become even more of a news interest because it would be more rare. Personally, I think immortality would destroy society. Eventually, we'd reach a point that overpopulation would place restrictions on the number of newborn humans. I can only imagine what such a world would be like. ::shivers::

	01-10-2003 00:23									#15
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quote: Originally posted by chegitz guevara We already worship ourselves, just not overtly. And why not? We are pretty damned amazing after all.

I agree... man created God in his own image. Perhaps religion, faith, and worship is unconsciously some sort of self-praise.

	01-10-2003 00:25									#16
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quote: Originally posted by Sava I doubt it... perhaps death would become even more of a news interest because it would be more rare. Personally, I think immortality would destroy society. Eventually, we'd reach a point that overpopulation would place restrictions on the number of newborn humans. I can only imagine what such a world would be like. ::shivers::

We aren't reproducing anyway. Let's just keep that drug from getting into the hands of the peasantry.

	01-10-2003 00:37									#17
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So if we're all effectively immortal, we'd need serious birth control. Something along the lines of, if you tak the treatment, you must practice birth control. If you want to have additional children (so we can "grandfather" in our living ancestors), you must stop taking the treatment, permanently.

If noone had children, the species would begin to decline in number. For a while that would probably be a good thing. But after a while, I think we should institute a lottery to decide who gets to bear offspring, so that we can replace those lost to accidental and deliberate deaths.

	01-10-2003 00:40									#18
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Space travel, of course, would solve SO MUCH of those problems. And we'd have the brainpower, and resources to do it, as well.

Think of it! No retirment, instead: longer vacations, and shorter working weeks. Plenty of money and energy saved by fixing a large part of the medical problems.

SPACE TRAVEL, ladies, and gents. SPACE TRAVEL.

	01-10-2003 01:16									#19
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I reckon the child thing would probably solve itself. Who needs kids if you're not going to die? Society would probably become intolerant of children generally; maybe old people as well.

	01-10-2003 01:18									#20
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I think the child instinct is way too strong.

	01-10-2003 01:19									#21
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Presumably there's a limit to how much the brain can know. I wonder how long we would live before we reached the phsycial limitations of the brain.

And don't gimme no "we only use 5% of our brain" crap. We use all of our brain, we just can't use it all at the same time. That would be the equivaent of having a grand mal epileptic seizure.

	01-10-2003 01:22									#22
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quote: I think the child instinct is way too strong.

Nah, it's pretty easy to override.

	01-10-2003 01:26									#23
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quote: Presumably there's a limit to how much the brain can know. I wonder how long we would live before we reached the phsycial limitations of the brain. And don't gimme no "we only use 5% of our brain" crap. We use all of our brain, we just can't use it all at the same time. That would be the equivaent of having a grand mal epileptic seizure.

A great question I've been pondering myself for quite some time.

That's why I that neuroscience and the way to MMIs should be the next thing.

Let's go cyborg.

	01-10-2003 01:34									#24
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The best solution I've heard to the overpopulation problem is a legal requirement that anyone living past, say, 150 must leave earth. Imagine the space development! Make sterilization part of the treatment, and the population on earth will stabilize nicely.

As for getting rid of religeon... nah. Few people believe out of fear of the afterlife. In fact, given the fear of death most believers preserve, I doubt they believe, in their hearts, that there is an afterlife. Religeon is more of a habit. A 10,000 year old habit is probably hard to break...

	01-10-2003 01:44									#25
	Re: Would immortality destroy religion? Inflate your Upload Space

quote: Originally posted by chegitz guevara Suppose through biotechnical engineering we were able to become technically immortal. Sure, we'd still die in accidents or as a result of murder or war, but disease and old age would be a thing for animal selves we leave behind. Without the fear of death, the loss of self in the infinate oblivion, would people still have a need for a deity (or dieties)? If you're never going to recieve your eternal reward or damnation, why continue to follow the religion of the flesh? I'm not talking about a decent into chaos where there are no rules or ethics. What would be the religious response? How would fundimentalist relgious types see this? Would they say that we are violating God's will, tasting from the Tree of Life and thus becoming like him (to paraphrase Genisis)?

In Judaism the afterlife is an afterthought and really isnt any consideration.

Jews would be uneffected-we want to make this world better, who cares about the next?

	01-10-2003 01:49									#26
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quote: Originally posted by chegitz guevara Presumably there's a limit to how much the brain can know. I wonder how long we would live before we reached the phsycial limitations of the brain. And don't gimme no "we only use 5% of our brain" crap. We use all of our brain, we just can't use it all at the same time. That would be the equivaent of having a grand mal epileptic seizure.

Our brains have a certain amount of hard-drive space(all the automatic functions)-a VERY small amount, and TONS of RAM-everything else, everything we "know" is stored in a part of the brain that is wiped "blank" over time if it isnt used.

	01-10-2003 01:55									#27
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Would immortality destroy religion?

Che, you seem to think that religion is a kin to the fear of death... Is that so? I question that. In one sense I do, but religion has always threatened lives to ensure their influence... If one can still be killed even if they 'could' live forever would this change?

Another thing. Older people tend to become religious as they approach death. Yet, is this because of the "fear" complex or does this have something to do with wisdom and hope. If it is wisdom, would this not come with age regardless of life span?

Just something to chew on.

	01-10-2003 01:57									#28
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Would meeting God on a consistent basis ruin religion? I would say yes.

	01-10-2003 01:58									#29
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What if you met god, and you got a bad impression of him?

What if he is a pompous egocentric oaf, and the only reason he hasn't been around since Moses was because he "forgot" all about us?

	01-10-2003 03:00									#30
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Immortality might get rid of the hypocrites. Then again there are a number of religious leaders who do what they do for the sake of the power they get.