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problem_child
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State of the Animal
Mar 2000
time: 05:31
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First off I'd like to say that this thread is for those that will not waste all our time by discussing the irrelevant propaganda-issues put out by USUK leadership regarding weapons of mass destruction or the evilness of Saddam or 45-minutes or World security or any of the other chewing-gum-topics divulged for the benifit of the voting public.
The US and UK invaded Iraq to gain control of the oil supplies of the second biggest oil producer after Saudi Arabia, they did this because industrial society runs on oil, it's as simple as that.
What I want to discuss is what you think we should be more afraid of:
The lies, cynicism, brutality, and willingness to bend/twist/manipulate/manufacture and forget the truth and history, as practised by the US and UK leadership- so that they could invade an entire country, destroy it's infastructure, and render all the protests from within their 'democracies' irrelevant, and causing all the 'serious debate' in the West to confine itself to made-up issues that have nothing to do with their [USUK leaderships] real motivations, while the soldiers and oil-men plod on with doing what they're really there to do (occupying the land and contracting-up the spoils of war)
or
That the Leadership of the US and UK think that it is necessary to do these things, because they beleive that controlling the Oil is worth it... because when the oil supply to the West runs out, Industrial society will end, and it would run out/be prone to impossible levels of manipulation sooner, had they not invaded Iraq.
In decades agriculture and translocation will buckle under the price of energy, people will starve, people will freeze, economies will crash. Without energy, or with overly expensive energy, even America could become like a 3rd world country, and California-class energy failures will become more widespread. Perhaps the men who run the US and UK, were actually taking very sobre steps to prevent the end of the world as we know it... perhaps the real reason they went to war- to secure the vast energy reserves we depend on to run the 'modern world', is justified?
Discuss...
Personaly I don't think it is justified, the modern world could find or build the infrastructure to derive alternative energy sources, but as things currently stand, energy is refined/transported and processed by a select few, an 'Energy Elite'.
The oil-moguls and their cousins in the military/industrial/corporate conglomorate aren't interested in finding alternate sources of 'sustainable energy' as this would take the power from their hands, and lead to the 'democratization of energy'. Imagine everybody having their own rooftop solar-plant or bio-waste methane plant! The horror! Therefore their lobbies will continue to support the worlds dependance on non-sustainable high-yield oil-energy because it keeps them rich and powerful, even though it is finite, and running out.
And because the oil is running out we will see more energy wars launched by the US (a very energy-hungry beast) disguised as humanitarianism or anti-terrorizm or WMD-control in the future.
The whole thing is merely an extension of the Kissinger plan first floated in the mid-seventies concerned with 'seizing Arab oil supplies', thereby placing the US in a position to 'control the worlds economies' (China, Europe, Russia and the rest).
Last edited by problem_child on 03-10-2003 at 17:36
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problem_child
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State of the Animal
Mar 2000
time: 05:31
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quote:
Originally posted by The Andy-Man
No offence, but its only Guardian reading students, and the loony left and greens in general who think that it 'all about oil'.
The US Gets most of its oil from OTHER PLACES, ie, Russia, LAtin America and so on, they get a rather tiny fraction from the middle east.
Also note, there is more going on then just oil. Not everything is about oil! |
Iraqi oil costs 1$ a barrel to process, Russian oil costs 6$ a barrel to process. The US get's only a tiny fraction of its oil from the Middle East... the worlds biggest oil region... and you don't think they are interested in changing this state of affairs?
Beleive me, oil is the most important resource in the modern world, and it is naive to think it's not worth going to war for, my opinion is that maybe it is worth killing for... killing thousands of people for, and that's my question, what's more scary, the killer- or his desperation?
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CerberusIV
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Does anyone really think that if OPEC get difficult and the oil price quadruples then 280 million Americans (or however many it is now) or 60 million Brits are just going to say "That's OK, we'll pay the extra and we don't mind having the power turned off 8 hours a day".
Governments are elected to keep the lights on, the traffic moving and all that. Not doing those things loses elections. Invading other countries doesn't if you can find a good enough excuse.
If you don't like it go live somewhere else.
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Donegeal
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Apolyton's Resident Law Enforcement Officer. Founder of the Glory of War, Champions of Apolyton!
Jul 2002
time: 05:31
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Moron. You and David Floyd should hook up.....
[Edit] Intended for problem_child, not Arrian.
Last edited by Donegeal on 03-10-2003 at 18:42
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problem_child
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State of the Animal
Mar 2000
time: 05:31
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quote:
Originally posted by Q Cubed
you think this was all about oil?
idiot. oil was a small fraction of it. this was about pure power.
humanitarian issues, womd issues, oil issues, all of that is worthless crap used to dress up how countries like america operate in the real world, based on realist principles.
the middle east is a strategic location, and a place where we need to exert our influence: sure, there's oil, but we also want to keep an eye on them so they stop killing us.
unfortunately, you can't project power across water very well, so going into iraq was a move designed to create a very strong pro-us base from which we could project our power.
it wasn't about oil. |
You're quite infatuated with yourself arent you... The idea that America is extending it's force and power in the Middle East to stop them from killing you is so ridiculous that out of mercy I have decided to spare you. You are right however, and wrong at the same time.
The US in Iraq is about pure-power, oil-power IS pure power, the finger on the tap dude... the ability to control the growth of whole economies, not just to supply the USs own domestic needs, not just to protect US industry, but to dictate the growth of all the idustrial world, to maintain US preeminance, economicaly and militarily. Power isn't just about having lots of tanks and planes, those things are just brawn... dependant on real power.
Power is something you pump, power is something you can turn day into night with, power burns with blue fire from the back of a jet-engine....
Last edited by problem_child on 03-10-2003 at 19:13
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C0ckney
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Big Up The Macedonian Massive
Apr 2000
time: 05:31
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just out of interest problem child, how old are you?
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03-10-2003 17:31
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