03-10-2003 21:40									#1
	What a joke..seminar on Political Theory Remove this text

Well I have taken enough Economics modules, so I thought it'd be good to take one from InterPol (first International Politics department in the world by the way!).

Today's seminar, the first one, people were going on about if Political Theory was a theory and why it was a theory and if Political Realism was a theory. What the feck. I didn't take this interesting sounding module for pseudo-philosophical shite about realism (when half of them sounded like they wouldn't know reality if it buttered their arse).

Hmmm..

	03-10-2003 23:17									#2
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Now now, don't be so dismissive. Politics degrees play a useful role in the UK university structure.............namely to provide a course for people not clever enough to do economics, but slightly too clever to do management science.

	03-10-2003 23:20									#3
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Sounds like a discussion on "Is this discussion really worth having?"

	03-10-2003 23:26									#4
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Hmmm, I have a Poli Sci Degree.

	03-10-2003 23:26									#5
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Anyone want to make something of it?

	03-10-2003 23:27									#6
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I guess no one does, RAH.

	03-10-2003 23:29									#7
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quote: Anyone want to make something of it?

I don't know, have you made something of it? Most Poly Sci. guys I know are know in sales, finance, or buisness occupations that could of been gotten with any number of other degrees....

	03-10-2003 23:34									#8
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My minor was computer engineering.
I am an IT Director for a world wide research company.
The Poli Sci degree has been immensely helpful on the management/adminstrative/people aspects of my job.

Upper management=is just an form of politics where the losers get fired instead of voted out.

	03-10-2003 23:37									#9
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quote: The Poli Sci degree has been immensely helpful on the management/adminstrative/people aspects of my job

Then I guess I won't make something of it...

So, is politcal theory really a theory? What does this mean to you and how can the answer to this question benefit todays society?

	03-10-2003 23:41									#10
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Smartass,

I must also agree that that topic seems a bit nebulous.

	03-10-2003 23:43									#11
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I'll have a PolSci degree in a year and a half without having to do the philosophical shite. I'm guessing that it'll pay off only once I have a masters...

	03-10-2003 23:44									#12
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Yup.

When I first met my wife she was a poly sci major in her second year and 2/3rds of the way through. I asked her what she planned to do with the major, her response "I don't know"... I then asked her "what do you like about poly sci?" she said "It's easy."

Anyway, I asked her, "What do you enjoy doing?", after some coaxing I learned that she liked animals as she was raised on a ranch and that she always enjoyed working with them... The next day we went down and changed her major to animal science, she has a poly sci minor...

Why did I share this story? Because I have nothing left to say about the topic of this thread at this time.

	03-10-2003 23:51									#13
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In the US, most Poli Sci majors go on to law school.

For me it was very practical. I already had the technical background but I didn't want to top out like most technical geeks.

Any technical person that can communicate with non technical people is highly coveted for technical management positions.

One of my political speaking class finals consisted of a 20 minutes speech.
You were graded positive on your sincerity, facts and other motivational skills.
You were graded negatively for every position taken or any defined course of action recommended.
Tell me that isn't a "must have" skill for Corporate America.
I received an A+ in that class.

RAH

	04-10-2003 00:07									#14
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quote: Originally posted by rah One of my political speaking class finals consisted of a 20 minutes speech. You were graded positive on your sincerity, facts and other motivational skills. You were graded negatively for every position taken or any defined course of action recommended. Tell me that isn't a "must have" skill for Corporate America. I received an A+ in that class. RAH

so, youre good at bullsh1tting?

	04-10-2003 00:15									#15
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Uh, Bods, that would be Realism rather than realism.

	04-10-2003 00:16									#16
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So, you gave a speech, with no opinion on anything and no suggestions of what to do. Sounds like a course in not saying anything that might come back to bite you.

	04-10-2003 00:41									#17
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quote: Originally posted by geeslaka So, you gave a speech, with no opinion on anything and no suggestions of what to do. Sounds like a course in not saying anything that might come back to bite you.

Exactly.
It was a full semester course.
A very practical class. Quite useful for real life.
If some want to call it bull********, I would have to agree up to a certain point.
And yes, it is a necessary skill for the corporate world.

	04-10-2003 00:43									#18
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So the best defence of political science degrees offered here is that they enable you to bullshit? Hardly a ringing endorsement.

	04-10-2003 00:45									#19
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quote: Hardly a ringing endorsement.

Yeah, you can learn that a Toastmaster or by lying to your wife... Hardly something you need a class or degree for (unless your going into politics)

	04-10-2003 00:50									#20
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Yes, but can you learn how to lie to your wife successfully .

PolySci also helps you open your eyes and learn about the world, which especially in the US, is something you don't get in other fields too much .

I'm a proud of my PolySci degree (it was much more fun than getting my Econ degree anyway )

	04-10-2003 00:53									#21
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quote: PolySci also helps you open your eyes and learn about the world

Doesn't mean you won't. I am very informed on the issues of the world, at least for an engineer. How many poly sci degree holders know anything about engineering, or what it really even is? (Not an attack at rah I am sure he knows)... Ignorance is prevelant in every field of study, that's why I leave the politicing to the politicers...

	04-10-2003 01:20									#22
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But would an InterPol student make any sense of an economics seminar?

	04-10-2003 01:30									#23
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Most liberal arts and science degrees are bull****.
But as Imran says, it's a broad based fluff education that will provide many benefits. I'm proud of my degree also. If nothing else, it provideds you inane conversation material for all the boring social gathering that the business world makes you suffer. Having at least general knowledge of the arts makes you appear a bit more sophisticated. And I will admit that at least with poli sci you get a much wider world view than a narrow US focused view. (agreement with Imran)

Yes every degree has weaknesses, but a technical minor and a general major(or the other way around) has worked out quite well for me. My success is due to both, not just the technical aspects.

RAH
And I took a few economic courses so I'm not totally ignorant in that area.

	04-10-2003 01:31									#24
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quote: Originally posted by rah Most liberal arts and science degrees are bull****.

	04-10-2003 01:34									#25
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Since I have one that I considered that, I think I can say that without insulting too many people. Most of those that have them will agree with me.

	04-10-2003 01:36									#26
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quote: Originally posted by rah Since I have one that I considered that, I think I can say that without insulting too many people. Most of those that have them will agree with me.

They simply show the face of agreeing with you because you have dictatorial powers that go with being a moderator.

	04-10-2003 01:36									#27
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rah, I agree completely. The poly sci or liberal arts route is a good route to get a well rounded degree. What I find strange, is that most of these people will then consider themselves a Renn-man, when they really aren't... Science (natural science) should play apart as well, and in most case people are more inclined to independently study liberal art or social science subjects than they are to ind. study hard science corric...

I think you did it right by mixing them up as I have a minor in music and took the approach that school (undergrad at least) is a place to learn about everything, not just one thing intently...

	04-10-2003 01:39									#28
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quote: And I will admit that at least with poli sci you get a much wider world view than a narrow US focused view.

At the minimum, I'd say. You can learn some really interesting stuff if you delve in deeper, such as theories on international relations (which will allow you to better under why certain states are doing things) and the intricacies of American politics (which will make you more intelligent in that field than like 90% of Americans ).

	04-10-2003 01:43									#29
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quote: Originally posted by Japher rah, I agree completely. The poly sci or liberal arts route is a good route to get a well rounded degree.

But Rah said that most liberal arts degrees are worthless -- so how are you agreeing?

	04-10-2003 01:46									#30
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My degree is also in Political Science. My intent is to head on to a Master's program in Public Policy, but the undergrad work in PoliSci should be rather useful.

I concentrated on comparative politics, specifically the study of methods of political change (elections, coups, revolutions, the works!) and the study of political elites.

There is no doubt that this coursework will come in very useful for my future career. A few isolated things have already come in rather useful in my work on political campaigns (where I work right now).

As for the theory courses, I actually enjoyed them. Granted, they aren't terribly PRACTICAL and most of the instructors are at least somewhat naive about the applicability of pure theory to real world situations, but they're quite interesting. I find that the main problem with political theory, as a subject field, is that while an insistence upon intellectual consistency is sensible when discussing coherent philosophy and ideology, it is unadvisable in the real world, sometimes even dangerous. Public policy is probably better conducting by a well-meaning pragmatist than an ideologue, no matter how well-meaning, with an obsession for intellectual consistency. One might even argue that this is the reason that many attempts at "communism" have failed It works fine as an IDEA in someone's head, sure, but its application to real life is a great deal more difficult, one likely requiring far more compromising of intellectual consistency and ideological purity than any Marxist could comfortably stomach

But, then again, I've got a touch of Burkean conservativism in me, so you'd expect me to have a perspective somewhat like that