23-02-2004 08:04									#211
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The save.

I was approached by an emissary from the germans and declined to be contacted as I was unsure how this could affect game play and Did not have my PBEM FAQ printout with me ATM.

Also after reading the thread again I noticed a statement from the Japanese saying there was a limit of two Caravans delivered. I did deliver a few caravans and dropped off some more to be delivered. I hope I have not broken any rule in doing so, I have a log of each van delivered.

Also what is the vedict on "ship chaining"? I did not see any in place so Did not try to create one but noticed that it would be very easy to do so.

Attachment: 1870apr.net
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	23-02-2004 08:32									#212
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I know it's done a lot in another game of this scen, and is generally accepted by the community.

	23-02-2004 08:39									#213
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If it has not been done yet, could we come up with a House rule against it?

	24-02-2004 00:10									#214
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quote: Originally posted by Zedd The save. Also after reading the thread again I noticed a statement from the Japanese saying there was a limit of two Caravans delivered. I did deliver a few caravans and dropped off some more to be delivered. I hope I have not broken any rule in doing so, I have a log of each van delivered.

Japan wishes to negotiate with the UK some tariffs to prevent the Japanese markets from being overflowed by imports. An emissary with a Private Message will be send within a few days.

quote: Also what is the vedict on "ship chaining"? I did not see any in place so Did not try to create one but noticed that it would be very easy to do so.

I see no objections to ship chaining.
PinkyGen: why would you want to ban it?

	24-02-2004 05:33									#215
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If the designer chooses 10 to be the movement of a certain transport, then I assume he intends for goods to be transported 10 squares per turn with that transport.

I'll admit that I've used ship chaining in many games, but this was because it was never addressed in them (or addressed and allowed). I'd vote against it if there was an official vote, but I really don't mind either way.

	27-02-2004 02:10									#216
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I have no problem with NOT ship chaining, and as it appears it has not been done thus far I will not attempt to make any changes.
I do usually use "shipping lanes" as i am sure do all of you for a regular flow of trade, (which is a main point of this Scen IIRC) and will generally trade agressively. To this extent the UK is willing to negotiate with any nations on trade agreements and will restrict our activities to what is deemed acceptable.

	27-02-2004 03:50									#217
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I'm against it because I think there should be ship transit time. Forces cannot deployed anywhere in the world, unless through an airport, for obvious reasons.

	27-02-2004 18:54									#218
	ship chaining Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

my two cents:

1: a chain requires lots of recources (ships) to allow for two or three units to be transported over large distances in one turn. In this regard, a player invests heavily to get the bonus of fast delivery, and thus it is hardly an exploit of a glitch in the game itself. And chains can be disrupted by other players.

2: (for this scenario specifically) IIRC, the disigner prefered much greater range for ships, but was set back by the game-parameters. So I recon he would not disapprove of ship chaining.



On the issue of house-rules however:
can we disallow aircover? In any game I find it quite a rediculous concept (especially since fighters tend to attack (the much stronger) groundforces instead of the airunits 'protecting' them), but in this scenario, that only has very 'primitive' aerial warfare, the concept seems to be a bit farfetched in terms of historical accuracy.

	27-02-2004 19:32									#219
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I dont care about chaining either way, just let me know what we decide

	27-02-2004 22:56									#220
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In other games we have had bans on 'invincible' air cover, and I'd definitely support it in this game.

Coincidentally, I was thinking of bringing this up in the CFC game but it seemed you'd been refraining from it.

	28-02-2004 08:32									#221
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

Yeah, I'd support what darius said, but I don't care about ship chaining one way or the other

btw, who's Russia?

	28-02-2004 09:08									#222
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quote: Originally posted by JamesJKirk Yeah, I'd support what darius said, but I don't care about ship chaining one way or the other btw, who's Russia?

me, why?

	28-02-2004 09:21									#223
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Because Zedd posted his turn at the top of the page

	28-02-2004 09:24									#224
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I don't think it's worth holding the game up over. Whoever is next is free to continue, I'll relent and agree to the chains.

	29-02-2004 17:54									#225
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Steve to play...

	29-02-2004 18:12									#226
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quote: Originally posted by JamesJKirk Because Zedd posted his turn at the top of the page

Ah OK, I did not see that in all the "ship chain posts"

I play straight away

	29-02-2004 18:27									#227
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Warsaw coal heats London.

Trade being dispatched to the New World, russian ships currently offloading goods near San Francisco.


There was a pop up at the start of the turn about a "Native Uprising" in Africa and the Traders are leaving.

Not sure what that is all about.

Attachment: russia_1870may_apoly.zip
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	02-03-2004 01:16									#228
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quote: Originally posted by conmcb25 There was a pop up at the start of the turn about a "Native Uprising" in Africa and the Traders are leaving. Not sure what that is all about.

Sounds like Barbs.

And about the chain, Again if you were not using it before lets just obstain from it now officially. that would be least disruptive IMO

	02-03-2004 01:50									#229
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Japan has delivered some goods to several ports. Japanese traders have made over 4000 Gold, and a good portion has been invested in several projects.

Japan's research has seen a great boom, with our scientists now reporting that they have passed half of their research-goal.


As four nations have expressed their objections to ship-chaining, Japan declares it will refrain from this tactic, which was envisaged by our strategists, but due to the lack of sufficient cargo-ships had not yet taken effect.

Japan will now actively persue the establishment of a Japanese trading post somewhere on the eastern coast of Africa. Such a trading post is deemed necessary if Japan is to succesfully compete on the worlds markets, especially in trade with Europe. Japanese ships that will have to travel back halfway across the world without return cargo before they can actively return to their duty, seriously damages the profitability of Japan's trade.

Let it be clear that the establishment of a Japanese trading post close to continental Europe, does NOT mean Japan has any ambitions in Europe itself or the Mediterranean Basin.


James, could you take your turn in the CFC game?

Attachment: japan1870may.net
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	02-03-2004 10:53									#230
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The Republic Expands

French forces have achieved victory on two fronts.
First, Bangkok has fallen, adding the once resistant Thai Kingdom to the province of Indochina. True, there indeed very grave casaulties in men, personnel, and even ships. But the survivors have emerged battle hardened, and with new capital pouring into Indochina, these losses may soon be easily replaced.

Additionally, more tribal capitals have fallen.

Moreover, I believe I have located the tribal uprising. It is in the middle of Africa, and not near any settlements.

Attachment: 1870mayfrench.net
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	02-03-2004 12:06									#231
	Put an end to popups!

Trade Flourishes, Economy Booms

Trade goods from the Reich have finally reached the shores of the Americas, filling government coffers to the brim. The Industrial Ministry noted the profits from these sales have been used to build schools in Hungary and to train troops for duty the frontiers and in the war against Italy.

In other news, the colonial outpost of Jakarta has continued to modernize, completing a Railway Station this month.

Attachment: ger1870may.net
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	02-03-2004 21:00									#232
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Great we are moving again

Darius you are next, just a reminder not a bump

	03-03-2004 00:03									#233
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quote: Originally posted by PinkyGen The Republic Expands Bangkok has fallen...

Ehrrrm... we DO play a game where reloading is forbidden I hope?

	03-03-2004 00:22									#234
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quote: Originally posted by germanos Ehrrrm... we DO play a game where reloading is forbidden I hope?

Yes we do and I know what you are thinking Germanos, I checked this same game for this same concern about a year ago.

It can be done but at terrible loss.

If thats what Pinky Gen said he did I believe him.

	03-03-2004 04:19									#235
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@PinkyGen: Please clear your PM inbox, it's full.

	03-03-2004 04:45									#236
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I lost cannons, infantry, and some ships, aka the "great losses." Survivors did get veteraned though.
Aditionally, such a reloading strategy could work in another "classified" place, yet it has not done so.

	03-03-2004 22:28									#237
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I replayed, and I found that I conquered the city a lot, which looking at the unit values, does not make a lot of sense.

I tested my Civ2 in some of my other games, and also strangely found it unbalanced in favor of the offense. I'm not sure why my Civ2 has gone wacky, I removed the mods I had been using a while ago, but I suppose I could have forgotten something. I didn't run too many trials, since I got a lot of crap for tests this week.

I'm going to reinstall Civ2, patch it up, and then replay the Bangkok turn for tonight, if this is acceptable to others?

	03-03-2004 23:47									#238
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With all due respect, if we set this precedent then any cheater in the future can simply say 'oh my Civ2's gone wacky' and continue to play. I'm having a hard time believing the game just plain didn't work, and I also wonder why it took this long for you to notice the problem. The Red Front incident doesn't help either.

For anyone interested, an independent check showed that only three non-veteran cannon and one non-veteran infantry were lost in the operation. As taking Bangkok would realistically take some 6-10 veteran cannon, any malfunction in his Civ2 engine would have to be major, and yet he didn't notice anything until now, when he's been confronted.

I don't know what to think; in every instance so far where illegitimate combat results were confirmed, the player in question either a) confessed to cheating or b) disappeared. In this case I guess we should just look at the facts and make a decision. Pinkygen's explanation is certainly possible, but...

	04-03-2004 00:08									#239
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If PinkyGen agrees, why not let a third party DL the save and play as PinkyGen to see what happens. That should give a good idea of the battles outcome.

	04-03-2004 00:18									#240
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I already said in my post the file has already been checked.

quote: Originally posted by Darius871 For anyone interested, an independent check showed that only three non-veteran cannon and one non-veteran infantry were lost in the operation ... taking Bangkok would realistically take some 6-10 veteran cannon

There is no dispute that the results in Pinkygen's file are impossible. The issue now is whether or not we'll believe that it was actually due to a malfunction.