04-10-2003 11:55									#1
	US Army prevents marriage to Iraqis Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

quote: Two Florida National Guard soldiers who married Iraqi women against their commander's wishes are being investigated for allegedly defying an order, their families said.

http://www.cnn.com/2003/WORLD/meast...s.ap/index.html

So a couple of our boys went over and found some hot Iraqis and now their punk ass commander won't let them send their Iraqi wives back to the US.

What do you Army punkasses have to say about this? MTG? Chris?

	04-10-2003 12:00									#2
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This is some bullshit!

	04-10-2003 12:09									#3
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How does one meet the man/woman of their dreams in a comabt zone? Iraq, Vietnam, etc.?

I.

Don't.

Get.

It.

These soldiers are there to "Make War, Not Love." So instead of exposing these poor women to anti-American hatred and ridicule at home for their love, they'll come to the States to face distrust and suspicion for their ethnicity and religion. Wonderful. Methinks all paties involved should have waived "love at first sight" and thought a little harder about their situation before diving right in.

	04-10-2003 12:17									#4
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Sad to say, but don't we have enough problems without adding the whole "stealing our women" aspect to it?

Orders are orders.

	04-10-2003 12:23									#5
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I don't think they should have the power over whom the men can marry.

	04-10-2003 12:23									#6
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quote: Originally posted by The Mad Monk Sad to say, but don't we have enough problems without adding the whole "stealing our women" aspect to it? Orders are orders.

screw that noise man

couples like this are INVALUABLE when it comes to building relations between two disparate groups

many of those that oppose the union are usually bigots anyway. but then there are others that will oppose the union but their minds will change as time goes on and they see the other side as a human being and not just a Muslim killing drone of the US Army or as some terrorist Muslim

	04-10-2003 12:30									#8
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quote: couples like this are INVALUABLE when it comes to building relations between two disparate groups

Very true.

	04-10-2003 12:36									#9
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quote: Originally posted by Ted Striker screw that noise man couples like this are INVALUABLE when it comes to building relations between two disparate groups many of those that oppose the union are usually bigots anyway. but then there are others that will oppose the union but their minds will change as time goes on and they see the other side as a human being and not just a Muslim killing drone of the US Army or as some terrorist Muslim

"Looking for love in all the wrong places..." comes to mind. I have no problem with adults of different backgrounds falling in love and choosing to marry. I do have a problem with them being stupid and vain about it. If their marrigae is going to cause extreme hardship on themselves and others...just a guess, but perhaps they should keep looking.

This isn't a case of Jewish parents wanting their daughter to marry a "nice Jewish boy," this is a group soldiers marrying women whose countrymen believe the soldiers are in an invading crusader army. Converting to Islam might have allayed (sp?) some peoples' concerns or disapprovals, but for the most part it wouldn't have much effect.

Iraq is still a very dangerous and unpredictable landscape. I can't help but think this wasn't the most prudent choice these couples could have made for the sake of their relationships. Good for them that they found love in such a time and place, but loving someone also involves knowing when it is best to let it go.

	04-10-2003 12:39									#10
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quote: whose countrymen believe the soldiers are in an invading crusader army.

You don't really believe this, do you?

	04-10-2003 12:41									#11
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quote: this is a group soldiers marrying women whose countrymen believe the soldiers are in an invading crusader army. Converting to Islam might have allayed (sp?) some peoples' concerns or disapprovals, but for the most part it wouldn't have much effect.

You are the EXACT guy I was talking about who needs to learn a few things from a couple like this.

	04-10-2003 12:41									#12
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They do. That's what's important to remember.

	04-10-2003 12:41									#13
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Ah yes and another one...

I'm glad to see you have a pulse on the average Iraqis thoughts Mad Monk Mind Reader


"They"


Stop thinking in terms of us and them

	04-10-2003 12:43									#14
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I'll wait for Oerdin to chip in -- he probably has a better idea about this than anyone else on the board.

	04-10-2003 12:43									#15
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Now Theodore, don't be cross.

	04-10-2003 12:47									#16
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Ted: Reread my post word-for-word. You might find I am NOT the type you're talking about. Me=not a bigot.

Drake: Doesn't matter if I believe it or not (I don't). It matters if religious extremists living in the country believe it.

	04-10-2003 12:52									#17
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quote: It matters if religious extremists living in the country believe it.

Since when do religious extremists speak for the whole country? They would seem to be in the minority by definition, so I hardly think they qualify as these Iraqi women's "countrymen"...

	04-10-2003 12:59									#18
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quote: Originally posted by Drake Tungsten quote: It matters if religious extremists living in the country believe it. Since when do religious extremists speak for the whole country? They would seem to be in the minority by definition, so I hardly think they qualify as these Iraqi women's "countrymen"...

That the thing about extremism: at times, it tends to rear its ugly head and take over, even if it's the "minority" view.

While I do hope that the mess that is Occupied Iraq will prosper into a decently democratic state within 20-30 years, extremism isn't going to roll-over and play dead just because some soldiers from a foreign force marry the women who reside along side the extremists. I'm not convinced intermarriage and conversions to Islam will be viewed as an accetable "bridge between cultures" to those who distrust, or even hate, the United States.

	04-10-2003 13:01									#19
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quote: Originally posted by Drake Tungsten quote: It matters if religious extremists living in the country believe it. Since when do religious extremists speak for the whole country?

Well, I heard that Bush was a fundamentalist so I would say that its right now in America but of course people only other think of other countries when they think about that kind of thing.

	04-10-2003 14:02									#20
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Gentlemen.

Think back fifty-sixty years ago, here in the good ol' U.S.

What was the prevailing attitude towards people of other cultures marrying, or even dating "our women"?

	04-10-2003 15:32									#21
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I sympathize with the couples, but the Army's position isn't either as heartless or stupid as it may seem. They are charged with their mission; whether soldiers can also find personal happiness in the situation just doesn't rate very highly in the Army's priorities, nor should it. This is based on many, many years of experience in these matters.

It would be different if this were truly a post-war situation, but the term "post-war" can't honestly be applied to Iraq yet.

	04-10-2003 16:49									#22
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quote: Originally posted by uh Clem ...They are charged with their mission; whether soldiers can also find personal happiness in the situation just doesn't rate very highly in the Army's priorities, nor should it...

So what, exactly, is the mission ? If the mission is "Blood for Oil", the army order makes good sense, but if the mission is "Iraqi Freedom" the order makes no sense at all, does it?

	04-10-2003 17:15									#23
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I'd like to see an army try and stop their soldiers having sex with the locals.

If you don't allow the marriages you're basically saying the local women are sub human or whores.

That basically takes you back to a "white fella" colonial occupation attitude.

Tut, tut and shame on the US army. Of course they had segregation up to and including WWII so I'm not suprised by this crap.

	04-10-2003 17:24									#24
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I can understand the Army not wanting them to marry while they are stationed there. It creates a security risk for them. But if they are truly in love they will still marry.

WW2 > American GIs married German, Japanese, Philipino, and other women they met while shipped overseas.

Same thing happened with Korea and Vietnam. That's just the way things happen. The US Military family always has a huge influx of whatever nationality they most recently fought.

* GhengisFarb wonders when we fought Mexico and Jamaica cuz we certainly have a lot of Mexicans and Jamaicans in the US Army right now...........

	04-10-2003 17:52									#25
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I just can't believe the blatant playa-hatin' goin' on in the US Army. These soldiers probably had more than enough salt thrown in their game by the Iraqis; the last thing they need is some lame-ass commander making it even harder for them to get their swerve on.

	04-10-2003 18:58									#26
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What? Marrying the enemy is a long standing military tradition.

	04-10-2003 19:24									#27
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quote: Originally posted by DRoseDARs How does one meet the man/woman of their dreams in a comabt zone? Iraq, Vietnam, etc.?

Lots of civilians work on base. We used to try to go and pick up the Albanian women who worked at the coffee shop or who worked as laundry ladies.

If you are horny enough you can find a way.

	04-10-2003 19:34									#28
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Have the Israelis tried this? It could solve many problems.

	04-10-2003 20:40									#29
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Damn it -- I'm still waiting from the military experts on this thread.

(MTG, Chris62, SlowwHand, Wittlich, and others)

	04-10-2003 20:56									#30
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I don't think the experts will give you a different answer. Since when has an invading (liberating for you right-wingers ) army NOT fraternized with the enemy's women? Normans/franks, Arabs/goths, romans/mediterraneans, chinese/everyone around them, homo sapiens/neanderthals, etc.

And these unions do help build trust between both sides. Imagine what it would be like if if we said no, i.e. "those women aren't good enough for us."

The only thing I can see them arguing about is violating commander's orders. I'm curious as to exactly what they were. If it was, "wait until you're not active" then the grooms should've waited. If it was, "Hell no, never," then they still should've waited until they were non-active and then married 'em.

And who cares what the extremists think.