09-10-2003 15:54									#1
	Israeli Port workers strike as government plans reform : Unions debate. Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

http://www.haaretzdaily.com/hasen/spages/347784.html

quote: Dockworkers protest as MKs begin debate on port privatization By Haim Bior and Zvi Zrahiya, Haaretz Correspondents, and Haaretz Service The Knesset has begun debating a proposal to privatize the port system Thursday, in the midst of a port workers' strike that began 10 days ago. Meanwhile, the Histadrut has threatened to increase the severity of the strikes after the Sukkot holiday, and port workers continued their demonstrations Thursday. The National Religious Party decided Thursday to abstain from voting on the first reading of the government proposal to privatize the ports. The decision came following a suggestion from NRP members that the party leave the coalition over a dispute with Shinui regarding the rabbinic courts. Labor Party Chairman Shimon Peres told Army Radio on Thursday that his party was not planning on filling any hole in the coalition, but was working on building up the opposition. Ashdod port workers burned tires at the port's Zim Junction, and their colleagues in Haifa also demonstrated on Thursday, in protest over plans to privatize ports and as part of the ongoing dockworkers strike, entering its tenth day. The Knesset is scheduled to vote Thursday at a special recess meeting on the first reading of a government-backed bill aimed at turning Israel's three seaports into independent government corporations. According to the proposed legislation, the government would be entitled to close down any of the ports - Haifa, Ashdod and Eilat - or add others to the list of approved ports. In addition, it is being proposed that the Transportation Ministry establish a Shipping and Ports Authority to oversee the entire sector. On Wednesday, Histadrut labor federation Chairman Amir Peretz sent a letter to Prime Minister Ariel Sharon urging him to intervene personally in the seaport labor crisis and to prevent a further deterioration in contacts between laborers and the Finance Ministry. Peretz warned Wednesday that if the labor dispute is not settled as soon as possible he will increase labor sanctions. "This is going to be a tough struggle. It will escalate to levels we have never before seen in Israel," Peretz said. At a Wednesday press conference, he said that the Histadrut is not prepared to give up on agreements that have already been signed with the government. Peretz said the strike will end only if the government declares it is prepared to honor agreements made with employees some two years ago. Finance Minister Benjamin Netanyahu also stepped up the government's campaign against striking longshoremen Wednesday, saying the strike was "strangling" Israel's economy and that Israeli citizens pay more money for every product because "there are more strikes here than anywhere else in the world." He cited figures showing that the 25 senior port employees received a total of NIS 20 million in annual wages. Peretz fired back, telling a news conference in remarks quoted by Army Radio, "We have a finance minister who thinks that he's God." Since the public-sector strike began on September 29, with the ports joining in a day later, there has been only one meeting between Histadrut and government representatives, which ended without results. On Tuesday, the Histadrut rejected another Finance Ministry plea to conduct negotiations on the various reform proposals that are the pretext for the strike. In addition to the plan to introduce competition to the ports, these include combining a number of government agencies - something that the Histadrut fears will cost jobs. Netanyahu on Wednesday reiterated that he would put aside the proposed legislation if the port workers supended their strike and labor sanctions.

Ok, Haaretz there with the misleading Headline: the govt. plan is to Incorporate each port authority into a government fully owned corporation. ( boldened ).

The government is losing a couple hundred million dollars or so each year in these harbours. So it is planning to incorporate them, and let them compete, to supposedly increase efficiency, etc.

I'd like to point out that the Port workers do get very high wages, and I applaud it, but it seems that there are lots of people who're hired in vain, and incorporating them will bring needed efficiency. The workers protest, because they'll be pressured more. They've cancelled all freight coming in and out of the country. This has already left thousands of people unemployed.

Israel's Trade Union ( an uberpowerful trade union that protects the interests of the vast majority of Israel's government and public sector, as well as many large factories ) has published a paper comparing the price charged by ports for handling cargo in Israel in comparison with Europe's ports, stating that in Israel, the price is only 20%-33%. IF the paper is correct, it seems that the government could simply increase the handling fees charged by ports.

Also, the union claims that this all has to do with private interests, that the Finance minister, pushing this move forward, is actually supporting private interest, and the government will later subsidize the establishment of private ports, which will funnel the public's cash into the hands of the leading capitalists in the country.

As seen in previous cases of government restructuring, esp. the Privatization of Israel's national cargo carrier, ZIM, this has a lot to do with very strong individuals, in this case, the Ofer brothers. I am personally aware of the corruption behind this privatization, but I cannot talk about it more. Seriously. These folks are the second richest people in Israel, and weild lots of power. Just a couple of months ago, they also "convinced" government officials to buy their stake at the Israeli Oil Refineries, for an extravagant sum of money...

So, here's the question:

Who's on the right, here? The workers, or the government?

	09-10-2003 16:36									#2
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The government, in this case. I was in Tel Aviv for a couple weeks recently, so I got to learn about the politics and so on here. From what I read, the labor union has a lot of other avenues of recourse (labor court, IIRC, was one that was mentioned frequently).
Striking is a last-resort thing, but they're jumping right in. This hurts a lot of people that have nothing to do with their complaint, and no power to do anything about it anyway. These guys are essentially throwing a nation-wide hissy fit (as one of the customs officials admitted).

The rest of the world that does business with Israel truly does not appreciate this ****. Especially since these guys seem to be doing it rather often. We've only been doing with an Israeli company for less than a year and there's already been a couple major impacts on our schedules from these strikes there.

Wraith
"Anything can be done with the right amount of smoke and mirrors."
-- Emily Weems

	09-10-2003 17:59									#3
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On the surface, YES, I very much agree. However, I've got a distinct feeling, (and previous knowledge to back it up), that there is more to it, than meets the eye. I think there is lots of pork heading somewhere.

	09-10-2003 18:02									#4
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Another intriguing event. Lots of Industry workers have shown up with the support ( or is it "support"? ) of the employers, making a mass demonstration against the harbor workers' strike.

	09-10-2003 18:51									#5
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Why would the union have any say over the ownership structure of the ports?

	09-10-2003 18:58									#6
	Got spare money?

Erm, I honestly don't know. I guess it changes the way the conditions the workers recieve in their working place.

	09-10-2003 19:20									#7
	Suffering from ads?

How?

	09-10-2003 19:24									#8
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quote: According to the proposed legislation, the government would be entitled to close down any of the ports - Haifa, Ashdod and Eilat - or add others to the list of approved ports. In addition, it is being proposed that the Transportation Ministry establish a Shipping and Ports Authority to oversee the entire sector.

As you see the government will be able to close the ports. And replace them with private ones that will be built with government subsidies, as well. On the whole, it seems like a pork shipment, and this is the part I agree with the union the most.

	09-10-2003 19:32									#9
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I still don't get it. The government could close the ports now, if it wished.

	09-10-2003 19:33									#10
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40 years ago the Liverpool docks (in the UK) were a union closed shop employing thousands of people. They went on strike when they felt like it. If they didn't want to handle a cargo they didn't and it simply sat in the ship or the warehouse. If they were unloading a cargo of something desirable, say tinned fruit, it was certain that a crate would be "dropped" and the contents "lost in transit". Eventually the costs of using the port were cripplingly high. There was also a refusal to deal with new machinery to handle containers. A new container port was built down the river. The amount of cargo through the old docks dried up, because it was cheaper and easier to go elsewhere, and the docks board was wound up and 90% of the dock workers made redundant.

I'm not saying this is quite the same but there seems to be a passing resemblance.

	09-10-2003 19:52									#11
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quote: Originally posted by DanS I still don't get it. The government could close the ports now, if it wished.

No it couldn't.


Cerberus: No, this ain't the case. The dock workers do their job very well, and very honestly. My mother works for the shipping Industry, I know that for a fact.

	09-10-2003 19:54									#12
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quote: No it couldn't.

Why not?

	09-10-2003 19:55									#13
	Got spare money?

Breach of contract with the union.

	09-10-2003 20:07									#14
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How long is the contract? That promise was made 2 years ago.

	09-10-2003 20:22									#15
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I don't know. In any case, this is a government bill passing through the legislature right now, that would make such an agreement void, IIUC.

	09-10-2003 20:56									#16
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If the purpose of government services is to make money, let me ask this. Are the police and fire departments profitable? Is the army profitable?

	09-10-2003 21:05									#17
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I know what you mean, che, but this is different. Fact is, these CAN be profitable. Police, FD, Army, don't recieve any other income.

	09-10-2003 21:15									#18
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Why should they be anymore profitable, than, say, roads? Roads are absolutely necessary for commerce. So are ports. We only charge user fees on some roads, not all roads. If the fees the port is charging are below average, then your end prices should also be lower. Either way, you end up paying, either in taxes or prices.

	09-10-2003 21:18									#19
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because roads are used mostly by the various taxpayers, whether citizens, or companies based in the country, and paying tax.

Ports are used by people outside the country a lot.

	09-10-2003 22:05									#20
	Got spare money?

Union
Government
(of course )

They should keep on striking till they take over the docks from the state.

	09-10-2003 22:41									#21
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If I understood John McCleod's rendition of communism, or was it Naziism, in another thread, the dock workers should accept lower wages and work for the greater good of Israel. Only workers in a capitalist society would seek high wages for personal benefit. So, the communists here, or is it Nazi's, should condemn the Israeli dock workers striking against the best interests of Israel for their own personal benefit.

However, the clear problem here is that the three ports are under one managemant and have one union. They need to compete with each other for cargo. Thus the move to make each port into a government corporation is the right move.

	09-10-2003 22:43									#22
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terrible troll Ned...

	09-10-2003 22:53									#23
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Not really, Sava. Do you support public-employee union striking for wages far, far above the wages of the average worker?

If the union is a private-employee's union, of course they should get what they can. However, private companies have competitors so that wages can only go up with productivity else the employer goes out of business. With public workers, the wages can go through the roof because the taxpayers have to pay. But is the use of this self-serving power against the people justified?

	09-10-2003 23:04									#24
	Got spare money?

quote: Originally posted by Ned Not really, Sava. Do you support public-employee union striking for wages far, far above the wages of the average worker? If the union is a private-employee's union, of course they should get what they can. However, private companies have competitors so that wages can only go up with productivity else the employer goes out of business. With public workers, the wages can go through the roof because the taxpayers have to pay. But is the use of this self-serving power against the people justified?

Unions = higher wages, better benefits...

private employees = lower wages, less benefits...

I really hate it when people have these misconceptions about unions. I'm not necessarily a pro-union guy, but people (working people, not rich corporate fat cats) are better off with unions than without them.

	09-10-2003 23:04									#25
	Got spare money?

Perhaps you should read the article before making idiotic bald assertions of the supposed "greed" of others. They're not striking over wages, they're striking over control of the means of production.

And workers ought to be able to strike whenever, wherever, and against whomever they want. It's the self-serving power of priviledge in forcefully breaking strikes that isn't justified.

	09-10-2003 23:06									#26
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btw Ned, my troll comment was about your apparant comparison of these people to Nazis...

	09-10-2003 23:07									#27
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Ramo, I did read the article. Apparently the dock worker makes an enormous amount of money and the Israeli taxpayer is being gouged. The aim of the government corporation is to introduce competition in order that costs eventually go down through productivity increases that would justify the high wages.

	09-10-2003 23:09									#28
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Sava, I was just pointing out both communists and Nazi's seem to justify low worker wages for essentially the same reason. Capitalists actually defend unions and high wages that are supported by high productivity.

	09-10-2003 23:18									#29
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quote: Originally posted by Ned Capitalists actually defend unions...

ROTFLMAO!!!!!!!

	09-10-2003 23:23									#30
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quote: Originally posted by Theben ROTFLMAO!!!!!!!

Another victim of Marxist propaganda.