11-10-2003 19:31									#1
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We have confirmed:

Byzantine - Seafaring and Scientific
Dutch - Seafaring and Agricultural
English - Seafaring and Commercial

Seafaring and Militaristic
I'd assume Vikings

Seafaring and Religous
Portuguese?

Seafaring and Expansionist
Spanish?

Seafaring and Industrious
?

	11-10-2003 19:42									#2
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Industrious is probably Carthage (although I don't know why they were), Whether Spain or Portugal is Religious is debatable.

	11-10-2003 19:55									#3
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Seafaring and Religous
Portuguese?

Seafaring and Expansionist
Spanish?

I would switch those around, personally.

	19-10-2003 04:05									#4
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Portuguese are confirmed being Seafaring Expansionistic.
I'm actually pretty excited playing with them. With their special caravel (which doesn't sink in Oceans IIRC), they'll be the absolute gods of exploration

I wouldn't bet my money on the Spanish being Seafaring at all. But if they are Seafaring, they'll be obviously Seafaring Religious.

	19-10-2003 05:29									#5
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quote: Originally posted by Spiffor Portuguese are confirmed being Seafaring Expansionistic. I'm actually pretty excited playing with them. With their special caravel (which doesn't sink in Oceans IIRC), they'll be the absolute gods of exploration

If what you say is true (ie, thePortuguese caravel being immune to ocean tile sinkings)...If I play an island-type map, I just might have to stop playing my beloved Iroquois and turn Portuguese! Though I would hate loosing the "religious" trait....

	19-10-2003 05:44									#6
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quote: Originally posted by Spiffor I'm actually pretty excited playing with them. With their special caravel (which doesn't sink in Oceans IIRC), they'll be the absolute gods of exploration .

If this is true that supercaravel is very powerfull. It's too powerful if the Portugese get it at the same time as normal caravels. If it comes a little before galleons that would be okay.

	19-10-2003 06:22									#7
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Well, here is what we know about the Carrack:

quote: [Thunderfall] [Zidane] What kind of stat boost will the Portugese UU have over normal Caravels? [Merepatra_BA] [Zidane] What kind of stat boost will the Portugese UU have over normal Caravels? The Carracks stats are 2.2.3, cost of 40 [Firaxis-Ed] Zidane- Increased attack and the ability to not sink in sea [Thunderfall] [raen] Does carracks apppear with mapmaking? [Merepatra_BA] Carracks come with Astronomy [Thunderfall] [raen] cool, thats rigth with history

	19-10-2003 06:29									#8
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So its possible it will still sink in Ocean? It wouldn't be that game breaking.

	19-10-2003 06:42									#9
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quote: Originally posted by GhengisFarb So its possible it will still sink in Ocean? It wouldn't be that game breaking.

Well, the carrack replaces the caravel, that doesn't sink at sea already. Heck, when Carracks and Caravels get discovered, even the galleys don't sink at sea anymore. I'm guessing Firaxis-Ed just confused both words. "Not sinking in Sea" is not an advantage for a caravel UU.

Besides, the other naval UUs are quite beefed up (Man'o War now enslave, Dromon has lethal sea bombardment and packs a huge punch in comparison to galleys), so the Portuguese UU would be terrible if it continued to sink at Oceans.

	19-10-2003 08:08									#10
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Here's the answer about Carracks:

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showt...364#post1256364

quote: quote: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Originally posted by aaglo Portuguese: Since caravel does not sink in sea, what would you say about Ed saying that Carrack does not sink in the sea... can you find a small mistake there -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Originally posted by Merepatra Yes, Carracks advantage is that they don't sink in Ocean either.

	19-10-2003 09:24									#11
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So, the Carrack is really a killer

3+1 moves, no risk of sinking, increased attack... Just imagine how it looks like if you have the lightouse as well. You have an equivalent of any industrial/modern ship (speed wise) as soon as astronomy is discovered

I think I'll really enjoy having my palace in Lisboa in the future

	19-10-2003 12:37									#12
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Has it been confirmed that all the trait combinations will be in the game?

	19-10-2003 20:18									#13
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I am very happy Portuguese finally in the game
But as english say(I think) "last but not the least"

They could be commercial, religious or expansionist. So expansionist is fine

Just to clarify, carrack is not a type of caravel. I only hope they are talking about a Nau (real unique unit of the Portuguese) and not Carraca (a boat from same type but not the same)

	19-10-2003 20:40									#14
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Well I presume some of the original civs will be getting reallocated too...so I would suspect that Scandinavians, English and Japanese could be seafaring as well...

	19-10-2003 20:48									#15
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quote: Originally posted by raen1978 Just to clarify, carrack is not a type of caravel. I only hope they are talking about a Nau (real unique unit of the Portuguese) and not Carraca (a boat from same type but not the same)

I think the Portuguese will simply build Carracks instead of Caravels. I don't think it necessarily means a Carrack is a Caravel.

	19-10-2003 21:15									#16
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quote: Originally posted by GhengisFarb I think the Portuguese will simply build Carracks instead of Caravels. I don't think it necessarily means a Carrack is a Caravel.

Of course, I was only saying that because there are some confusion some times, for example saying that Carrack is a "special Caravel".

	19-10-2003 21:20									#17
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This is a Nau(Carrack):

Attachment: nau.jpg
This has been downloaded 234 time(s).

	19-10-2003 21:29									#18
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Raen:
At the risk of disappointing you, there is very little chance Firaxis calls the Portuguese UU a Nau. In Civ3, Firaxis has most often used unique units or names that are well known (hence the Spanish Conquistador instead of the Tercio, the French Musketeer, etc.), so that the players doesn't feel lost.
But this is no big problem: it is very likely that the Potuguese UU looks like a Nau (I mean, you can't get any more Portuguese than that ), and all you'll have to do will be simply to rename it in the editor.

	19-10-2003 21:32									#19
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quote: Originally posted by Spiffor Raen: At the risk of disappointing you, there is very little chance Firaxis calls the Portuguese UU a Nau. In Civ3, Firaxis has most often used unique units or names that are well known (hence the Spanish Conquistador instead of the Tercio, the French Musketeer, etc.), so that the players doesn't feel lost. But this is no big problem: it is very likely that the Potuguese UU looks like a Nau (I mean, you can't get any more Portuguese than that ), and all you'll have to do will be simply to rename it in the editor.

Hope you are right and a simple edit will do it

	20-10-2003 17:12									#20
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quote: Originally posted by Fatwreck Has it been confirmed that all the trait combinations will be in the game?

Yes, but I can't remember where. If I find a link I'll post it for you.


EDIT: Here it is...
http://apolyton.net/forums/showthre...937#post2363937

Look for Warpstorm's post. He's one of the Beta testers.

	20-10-2003 20:04									#21
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ok... thanks a lot

	20-10-2003 21:06									#22
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quote: Originally posted by Spiffor 3+1 moves, no risk of sinking, increased attack... Just imagine how it looks like if you have the lightouse as well.

Has it been confirmed that the bonus move from Seafaring stacks with the Lighthouse? I know the Lighthouse and Magellan don't stack.

	22-10-2003 04:20									#23
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Unless the Spainish UU was changed, definately not.

Spain isn't expansionist because otherwise they could build lots of scouts and upgrade them to their UU, which would be about the only way to make their UU useful as more than a just a raider in most games. Now it is likely that it will be very useful in the age of discovery conquest against the new world civs.

quote: Originally posted by Osweld Seafaring and Expansionist Spanish? I would switch those around, personally.

	22-10-2003 04:31									#24
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quote: Has it been confirmed that the bonus move from Seafaring stacks with the Lighthouse? I know the Lighthouse and Magellan don't stack.

That's what I'm dieing to know.

	22-10-2003 05:50									#25
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quote: Originally posted by joncnunn Unless the Spainish UU was changed, definately not. Spain isn't expansionist because otherwise they could build lots of scouts and upgrade them to their UU, which would be about the only way to make their UU useful as more than a just a raider in most games. Now it is likely that it will be very useful in the age of discovery conquest against the new world civs.

Spain is likely to be Religious, Seafaring.

I hope the Conquistador has been improved (land enslavement, the ability to turn units into slave workers) would be a good start.

	22-10-2003 07:38									#26
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quote: Originally posted by Louis XXIV Spain is likely to be Religious, Seafaring. I hope the Conquistador has been improved (land enslavement, the ability to turn units into slave workers) would be a good start.

What is land enslavement?

	22-10-2003 08:12									#27
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When you attack a unit, it gets turned into a slave worker. It is in the MesoAmerican Scenario, although there has been no mention of it in the main game (but I think it should be)

	27-10-2003 09:36									#28
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Its actually a one-in-three chance of creating a worker if victorious.
And the Mayan UU has it in the Epic game (Javelineer,30 shields archer replacement, 2/2/1).

	27-10-2003 09:54									#29
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I've heard the English man'o'war will now have a chance to enslave defeated ships too, and turn them into conscript ships under English command.

I wonder how it works. I thought the "neslaved" unit was a fixed one, not a variable one. I.e, no matter what unit you defeat with the Mayan javelineer, you get a worker. No matter who you defeat with a Barbarian warlord in the Fall of Rome scenario, you get a swordsman.

	27-10-2003 10:20									#30
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But even before we (non-betatest plebs) knew about the variable result of capture (from ROR scenario), the enslavement abilities were referred to as 'naval enslavement' and 'land enslavement' (or something like that).

I took this to mean the two abilities were separate.

Hopefully this is true; pulling off a Man'o'War vs Carrier victory and getting a conscript Man'o'War would suck (and be a lot weirder than the land enslavement equivalent).