12-10-2003 00:27									#31
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quote: That's funny, cause I happen to agree with him

You're a stupid foreigner too.

quote: Um.. what is the biggest problem then?

Commie philosophy professors.

	12-10-2003 00:35									#32
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quote: quote: I wonder why I have this feeling: "The bigest problem to the US is the Bush administration...." Probably because you're a stupid foreigner who knows jack **** about America.

Indeed.

The US has problems far worse than just Dubya! It's so bad even, that they have to get an Austrian to be governor of your richest state.

@USA

	12-10-2003 00:36									#33
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I would make fun of your country, but I can't really remember what irrelevant shithole you come from.

	12-10-2003 00:40									#34
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Well, I think even bigger screw up would be not putting the money there. This shows, that it's not all about oil either.

I believe the long term effects are worse if this is not done.. but then again that's just my guestimate and doesn't mean a thing.

And of course by worse I mean the situation in Iraq, I'm not sure how much this will directly help american citizen.

	12-10-2003 00:51									#35
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quote: I would make fun of your country, but I can't really remember what irrelevant shithole you come from.

touchy touchy you Americans just crack me up.

but if you're so American, what's that Japanese flag doing there?

and irrelevant shitholes or not, you still have an Austrian running California!

	12-10-2003 00:54									#36
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quote: you still have an Austrian running California!

IIRC, you had an Austrian running your country at one time .

And, unlike the xenophobic Euro countries, we don't mind our immigrants being elected to office .

	12-10-2003 00:58									#37
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Unlike the "Muslim-loving" Euros, especially the Frenchies, we (supposedly Muslim-hating) Americans don't throw kids out of schools because they want to wear head scarves.

	12-10-2003 00:59									#38
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quote: [SIZE=1] Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui And, unlike the xenophobic Euro countries, we don't mind our immigrants being elected to office .

Except when that office is President.

	12-10-2003 01:03									#39
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Well we can't let those unAmericans run the country .

	12-10-2003 01:06									#40
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Exactly. I mean, they might be dirty commies, eh?

	12-10-2003 01:06									#41
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quote: Originally posted by Saint Marcus you still have an Austrian running California!

So, what, the only ones who should be allowed to hold office should be those descended from England?

Stop grasping for straws.

	12-10-2003 01:07									#42
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quote: Originally posted by Paul Hanson Exactly. I mean, they might be dirty commies, eh?

Damn straight! They have to go through a long screening process to determine they are not Euro-coms. Arnold checked out fine.

	12-10-2003 03:08									#43
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quote: Originally posted by Jac de Molay That's the problem. Wolfowitz and gang got up before Senate and gushed about how much of this would be self-financed through oil revenues. And none of it is in the form of loans, which it should be.

Sure. I like that. I'll break your house, hire myself as contractor, and then hire who I want to rebuild your house in the way I want - but at your expense, since I'm merely "loaning" you the money.

If it's a loan, then the Iraqis should have the option to decide what the money gets spent on, and who they hire to do it. That ain't the way the US is working it.

	12-10-2003 03:16									#44
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quote: Originally posted by DanS Some things to point out. (2) The vast majority of the $150B goes to Americans, creating jobs for Americans in the process;

So was the WPA. Is this the Neo-Deal? Tax and spend to create work, but invade a bananaland first?

quote: (3) $150B is not much money to fight a war with our standing, professional army;

then again, it wasn't much of a war.

quote: (4) Our military is being modernized in the process;

What new systems are being acquired and deployed as a result of this procurement activity?

quote: (5) We have been spending money, time and potential lives bombing Iraq for 12 years prior, which will cease;

We're spending money, time, and actual lives now on an open ended basis.

quote: (6) This expense is non-recurring.

If most of it is military, and most of it is operational, how is it non-recurring. Or is it a collective 87 billion dollar wound, instead of the indiviudal million dollar wound, and everyone gets a flight home when the 87 billion is spent?

	12-10-2003 03:19									#45
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quote: Originally posted by Lord Merciless Unlike the "Muslim-loving" Euros, especially the Frenchies, we (supposedly Muslim-hating) Americans don't throw kids out of schools because they want to wear head scarves.

Except in Oklahoma, at least in the current instance.

	12-10-2003 03:21									#46
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quote: Originally posted by Drake Tungsten quote: Um.. what is the biggest problem then? Commie philosophy professors.

Who as a rule do not preach their political beliefs to their students.

Incidentally, we've had a few visiting US profs here recently to give talks. Only one could be described as a commie (another was from Texas). Yet all wished death on Bush.

	12-10-2003 04:08									#47
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quote: So was the WPA. Is this the Neo-Deal? Tax and spend to create work, but invade a bananaland first?

Not a primary reason, for sure. More of a mitigating factor. This is a particular kind of charity.

quote: then again, it wasn't much of a war.

It was a much hotter war than we've had for an long time. Hotter than Gulf War I. Despite this, so far it has cost less as a percentage of the economy than all of the hot wars that this country has been involved in.

quote: What new systems are being acquired and deployed as a result of this procurement activity?

Rummie has broad discretion over at least $10 billion in the supplemental. It gives the military places to try things out, such as UAVs. Lastly, it helps refocus our resources to important things like intelligence and Arabic language skills.

quote: We're spending money, time, and actual lives now on an open ended basis.

While open ended, we can be reasonably sure that there will be an end. Under the previous regime, we could be reasonably sure that there was no end in sight.

quote: If most of it is military, and most of it is operational, how is it non-recurring. Or is it a collective 87 billion dollar wound, instead of the indiviudal million dollar wound, and everyone gets a flight home when the 87 billion is spent?

The operations will wind down over time and are therefore non-recurring. The $20B in reconstruction is in part there to ensure that the operations wind down in a reasonable fashion (security, etc.).

This compares to a recurring domestic spending program, which you can expect to be there year after year, forever.

	12-10-2003 04:40									#48
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quote: Originally posted by The Emperor Fabulous mmm, oh so high-and-mighty skywalker, allow me to bow to your omnipotent presence [/sarcasm]

Hmmm.... maybe. You aren't really worthy.... difficult decision.

	12-10-2003 04:53									#49
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quote: Originally posted by DanS (6) This expense is non-recurring.

Well to be pedantic (one of my specialities), as the money is borrowed then 95% of the $150bn cost is non-recurring - the interest (currently 5%) will have to be paid forever unless the original 'loan' is paid off.

Then again the one-off costs keep coming don't they? (Kosovo, Macedonia, Afghanistan, Iraq)

	12-10-2003 04:54									#50
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el freako - it's a non-recurring expense to US, not the Iraqis

	12-10-2003 05:03									#51
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quote: but if you're so American, what's that Japanese flag doing there?

When did I claim to be American? I merely made fun of foreigners, which all you non-Japanese people are. Stupid gaijin...

	12-10-2003 05:19									#52
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quote: So, what, the only ones who should be allowed to hold office should be those descended from England? Stop grasping for straws.

Arnie was born Austrian in Austria. We're not talking about someone who's ancestors lived in the US for decades.

quote: When did I claim to be American? I merely made fun of foreigners, which all you non-Japanese people are. Stupid gaijin...

so you in your infinite Japanese wisdom, know all about the US?

	12-10-2003 05:23									#53
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quote: so you in your infinite Japanese wisdom, know all about the US?

Yes. When you live in an important country, it is vital to know about other important countries. This is most likely why you know nothing about America...

	12-10-2003 05:30									#54
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quote: Originally posted by skywalker el freako - it's a non-recurring expense to US, not the Iraqis

Are you really that financially illterate?

If you borrow money you have to pay interest on it - and unless you eventually pay it back you have to pay interest indefinately (by rolling the loan over).

	12-10-2003 05:53									#55
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quote: Originally posted by Agathon Um.. what is the biggest problem then?

Too many "dog-people" and communists.


Comrade Tassadar, being a Cat-person, is forgiven.

	12-10-2003 09:04									#56
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quote: Originally posted by DanS Some things to point out. (1) The $150B figure is $125 for the military and $25 for reconstruction; (2) The vast majority of the $150B goes to Americans, creating jobs for Americans in the process; (3) $150B is not much money to fight a war with our standing, professional army; (4) Our military is being modernized in the process; (5) We have been spending money, time and potential lives bombing Iraq for 12 years prior, which will cease; and (6) This expense is non-recurring.

1) Ok, that's still alotta money.
2) Yeah, the money and the oil goes to America, yet somehow this is for the "Iraqi people"
3) Naw, it's only $5,000 EVERY AMERICAN CITIZEN! But hell, I make that EVERY 7 MONTHS! Not to mention we also got a country to run.
4) Good point. The Iraqis do make great target practice. And we are training an Army of SWAT memebers to help with the drug war when they get back.
5 & 6) You guys say it will stop, but have absolutely positively not one clue as to when exactly it will end.

	12-10-2003 09:37									#57
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NeOmega, you ignorant slut. That's $500 per American, not $5,000.

	12-10-2003 09:49									#58
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doh

well since it's only $500 dollars, I guess I can donate 80 hours of my life a year for the good of Haliburton.

	12-10-2003 09:53									#59
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You would be working about 12 minutes a year for the good of Haliburton's shareholders. You've probably spent more time on this thread.

	12-10-2003 10:01									#60
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quote: Well to be pedantic (one of my specialities), as the money is borrowed then 95% of the $150bn cost is non-recurring - the interest (currently 5%) will have to be paid forever unless the original 'loan' is paid off.