12-10-2003 18:24									#1
	Attention Urgently Needed - New Developments Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

Much has happened mid turn:

We could not research Nonlinear Mathematics I have put us researching HEC.

I have put my plan into action, with impact cruisers replaces with laser ones, until we get Non Math. They still only have scouts defending, so with the transport and extra troops, it is worth it IMHO.

Most importantly of all, our eastern rover has met The Free Drones. We are not alone on this island I will push for friendly relations, will see about techs. Anything else? I need to play quickly, so will post soon, but wanted to see if anyone was online to help.

'Tis an exiting time to be a CyCon

	12-10-2003 18:43									#2
	Increase the size of your Attachments

Ok, am going to play now. I will look at the Drones tech but do nothing this turn. I will PM Buster to ask about tech/treaty once we've discussed things, for next turn.

	12-10-2003 18:44									#3
	Browse Apolyton AD-FREE

well they dont have any techs we dont already have i think. (i looked at what we can offer. and we had a lot they dont have yet so there is a small change they have something we dont have yet)...but cool that we met them....maybe we can do some map trading with them?

	12-10-2003 18:47									#4
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

Actually, they used to lead the tech race, so they may have some interesting ones

	12-10-2003 18:50									#5
	Increase Your PM Length

oh hmz....well they dont have doc: ini and doc: otherone....and well in my quick look we have around 5 or 6 techs they dont have

	12-10-2003 20:34									#6
	Put an end to popups!

Last edited by Googlie on 14-10-2003 at 21:27

	12-10-2003 20:48									#7
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

It's good being almighty, eh Googlie??

Drogue, sorry i couldn't respond sooner.
We had better be very friendly with the Drones. Try to make for a treaty (perhaps even a pact- some help would be usefull if the CyCon-Peace war will maybe drag on ). I would certainly agree to any even trade concerning ec's/techs/map or whatever

We probably cancelled the pact with Peace already?? Now that we do have to reseach HEC they won't be suspicous as fast as when we would go for NonLMath...

	12-10-2003 23:20									#8
	Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

Now we won't have NonlMath soon, I would vote against going to war with PEACE in the near future... Lasers just won't do the trick IMHO. It would be madness to try an invasion against a more powerful faction with that weapon. So I would give priority to infiltrating their datalinks before building military units, to see if we have a realistic chance. But no matter what we do, I still think we should break all our deals with PEACE though.

	13-10-2003 01:36									#9
	Put an end to popups!

Lasers against scouts is still advantage us. We have already downed to treaty, and broken the deals, so I think we will be at war whatever. However I think we should try to keep peace as long as possible. Build some laser cruisers, build the MCC, get Non Math ASAP and attack them. I think we want ships as they will go to war with us soon, over not giving them 2 techs. Even if they are only laser. Although changing to probe cruiser might be a better idea first to probe them, then go for laser ships, then impact wehn we get Non Math.

	13-10-2003 03:39									#10
	Got spare money?

quote: Lasers against scouts is still advantage us.

They have Industrial Base. Once they understand we don't intent to pay back their two techs, and see we are hostile by breaking the pact, they would be idiots not to increase their defences.

For that reason I think that - until we have Impact Guns or a better weapon - we should forget about waging a war of conquest, and don't build any laser unit except for a 2-3-8 ship IMHO. Despite our bad offense, we still have the advantages of a superb defence and a very mobile fleet. Having that in mind, I think that instead of a war of conquest we should start a war of knowledge. Meaning building lots of probes. PEACE has many things we can steal: their datalink and map knowledge, and the technologies of Ethical Calculus, Progenitor Psych and in a few years Adaptive Economics. By building a transport equipped with our latest armour, full of probe defences and probe teams, escorted by a 2-1-8 and/or 2-3-8 cruiser, we could make a tour around all their known bases without them being able to do much about it unless they throw all their laser and gun ships on us. IMHO this would be a more profitable strategy than sending our laser troops to a likely death at the hands of synthmetal garrisons.

	13-10-2003 06:38									#11
	Remove this text

I agree, although I think if our infiltration shows that they have not got anything more than a single scout, if that, we should take advantage and pick of a base here and there. Most probes though, IMHO, and defense. The as soon as we get impact, go to war. It's a pity we couldn't choose it, but let us get on with what we have to do.

I propose building a 2-1-6 cruiser for exploration first, as we are in Pi Square. Afterwards Pi Square should switch to a 2-3-6 cruiser, for defense and exploration. When finished with the Rec Commons, Aurora should build a 0-3-6 transport, and AP and LL should build probes to attack with. Once we have Non Math, both Aurora and Pi Square should build 4-1-6 cruisers for assault, and AP and LL should build 4-1-1 and 4-1-2 units to board the transport (probably 2 by then) and attack PEACE.

How does that sound?

	13-10-2003 14:33									#12
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

we might be in luck. they have a change of leaders over at the PEACE. and maybe she forgets to see what is happened. and if she sees it doesnt do anything about it in game...this could give us another turn before they can responed ingame...

	13-10-2003 15:58									#13
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

i just found something out but i dont know if it is tampering so googlie could you please help me....if i go talk to an AI and well dont do anything else then collect information about what it says...is that allowed?

	13-10-2003 16:46									#14
	Full PM-box? Change here!

Googlie ruled somewhere before in the PEACE diplomatic exchanges thread that IIRC contacting the AI on parallel turns was allowed. This is to simulate the tactic of asking tentative questions to another faction, but temporarily withholding whether you agree or not to the deal, a tactic possible with humans.

So, what did you discover? Can we trade technology with an AI?

	13-10-2003 17:47									#15
	Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

not yet but miriam has nonlmath......(i hope you all didnt know that yet)

	13-10-2003 18:05									#16
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

about miriam we could try gifts and then ask for a trade....or we can probe her...as soon as we found a base of here....i propose we try the first part

	13-10-2003 18:17									#17
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

ok i checked AGAIN...and we need 150 Ec for nonlmath right now...i think we should try and getting it with in now and 3 turns...but MCC has priority

	13-10-2003 18:42									#18
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

!!! How did she get nonlinear mathematics!? IIRC, nobody else has it, so she must have researched it herself.

	13-10-2003 18:45									#19
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

Last edited by Googlie on 14-10-2003 at 21:25

	13-10-2003 19:08									#20
	Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

ah tnx for that piece of info googlie

	13-10-2003 20:15									#21
	Browse Apolyton AD-FREE

Lol, Myriam the uber research faction has researched NonLMath on her own... gogo for the Believers

We should try to squeeze it out by one means or another... we reaaaally need those impact guns...

	13-10-2003 22:50									#22
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

I agree. IMHO we have 2 options:
1 - Increase ec, reduce research rate, and rush nothing bu the MCC. If we can get 25ec per turn, with what we have now, we could have Non Math in 4 or 5 turns, much quicker than if
2 - Probe Miriam and steal it.

I think Miriam is our friendly faction, so I would be against stealing it if we can possibly avoid it. 150 is a bit, but not too much IMHO.

There is a slightly risky other option. If Miriam is our friendly AI, then try for decent diplomacy. We know that neither AI will challenge for victory, unless the human factions are very lax, which means we can gift them things without too much worry about the consequences. So we give Miriam a tech or two, she will be our ally, and her being strong is in our best interests. I would say let's gift her a tech, and try to treaty. Then gift her another and try for Pact. Maybe she'll trade with us? Maybe we can pay her in tech to wage war against PEACE. Would be fun

	14-10-2003 00:01									#23
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

Personally I would opt to buy it for 150 credits.

And I really hope Googlie didn't make the Believers our "friendly faction". Since we can't run Fundamentalist, making Miriam friendly (unless we run democratic) and Roze hostile (even if we are democratic) is equivalent to making both AIs hostile to us... That would put us as a relative disadvantage to all other factions, unless they also all have Roze as the hostile faction.

	14-10-2003 00:08									#24
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

That is true, we cannot choose Fundy. If we wish to buy, what should we change our sliders to?

	14-10-2003 00:43									#25
	Remove this text

If we leave them where they are, we'll be able to buy in 4 turns and will get our next tech (according to current numbers) in 11 turns. 60/40/0 seems to be the best 'other' option, which will allow us to buy it in exactly 3 turns, but we'll have to wait 13 turns for our next tech.

Both of these figures exclude the price for rushing the MCC, of course. At the end of this, we'll have 8 ec with option 1, and 0 with option 2.

Last edited by Corellion on 14-10-2003 at 01:07

	14-10-2003 02:43									#26
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

we can always sell a tech to miriam for an extra 25 Ec

	14-10-2003 03:07									#27
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

I'd say go for option 2. That extra turn earlier then switch to having more research, we should still get 12 turns to tech.

	14-10-2003 03:08									#28
	Put an end to popups!

Ugh. I don't like that option so much... but if it comes to it, maybe.

	14-10-2003 21:04									#29
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

IMHO buying NonLMath a turn earlier is much more important than our next research time...

I really like Drogue's idea about becoming friends with the Believers. If we could get them to wage war on the Pirates, that would be superb

Btw never mind about rushing the MCC, doesn't seem like someone will beat us to it and if it's really necessary there's always a crawler available i think.

	14-10-2003 21:13									#30
	Put an end to popups!

Yes. Let us use one, and maybe two crawlers. We don't need to bother with rushing with Ec.

Can I change the slider to 60:0:40 next turn?