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Velociryx
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of Candle'Bre
Apr 1999
time: 05:31
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1) Tools enhance productivity. They enable you to make more stuff with less effort.
2) Tools do not appear magically out of thin air. Someone has to make and invent them. Think them up if they don't already exist.
3) That process is work. Work should be rewarded.
4) There are many ways such compensation could be rewarded, and one of those ways, commonly used in today's economy, is the Licensing Agreement. That means, you use my tool to enhance your productivity, and I get a small chunk of the gain you realize.
5) Since you could not produce as much pre-tool as post, you are gaining, not losing. Since you are freely electing to use the fruits of my brain, MY labor to enhance your productivity, your productivity is no longer a function of YOUR work alone. It is your work, enhanced by my tool. Thus, it is not exploitative nor treating you unfairly in any way.
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Japher
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Ook! Ook! Ack! Ack! Ack!
Jun 2002
time: 05:31
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Specialization.
Henry Ford's real invention, and the reason why I haven't learned to be a tailor, carpenter, or butcher. Without them I would be naked and hungry living on the streets, and they would be without whatever service I provide. Granted if society wasn't the way it is today I would know how to sew, build, and butcher but then we would be so far behind from where we are now, because instead of people spending time learning chemisty, physics, engineering, etc. to create the inventions that make our lives so much easier and or more comnfortable we would all still be busy being selfish greedy communist doing only for ourselves what it is we know how.
Services.
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Kidicious
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Diety of Kidiverse
Mar 2003
time: 21:31
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quote:
Originally posted by Japher
Specialization.
Henry Ford's real invention, and the reason why I haven't learned to be a tailor, carpenter, or butcher. Without them I would be naked and hungry living on the streets, and they would be without whatever service I provide. Granted if society wasn't the way it is today I would know how to sew, build, and butcher but then we would be so far behind from where we are now, because instead of people spending time learning chemisty, physics, engineering, etc. to create the inventions that make our lives so much easier and or more comnfortable we would all still be busy being selfish greedy communist doing only for ourselves what it is we know how.
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True. Point?
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Ned
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of Aptos, CA
Oct 1999
time: 21:31
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I thought the following passage from Mein Kampf illustrates that nothing has changed in the argument with Marxists for nearly 100 years and possibly more. On page 62 in my softback version, in the chapter entitled "Study of the foundation to Marxism," Hitler has the following to say:
"At that time I was still childish enough to try to make the madness of their doctrine cleared of them; in my little circle I talked my tongue sore and my throat horse, thinking I would inevitably succeed convincing and how ruinous to Marxist madness was; but what I accomplished was often the opposite. It seemed as though their increased understanding of the destructive effects of Social Democratic theories and their results only reinforced their determination.
The more I argued with them the better I came to know their dialectic. First they counted on the stupidity of their adversary, and then, when there's no way out, they themselves simply played stupid. If all this didn't help, they pretended not to understand, or, if challenged, they changed the subject in a hurry, quoted platitudes which, if you accepted them, they neatly related to entirely different matters, and then, if again attacked, gave ground and pretended not to know exactly what what you were talking about. When you try to attack one of these apostles, your hand closed down on a jellylike slime which divided up and poured through your fingers, but in the next moment collected again. But if you really struck one of these fellows a telling a below that, observed by the audience, he couldn't help but agree, if you believed that this had taken you at least one step forward, your amazement was great the next day. The Jew had not the slightest recollection of the day before, he rattled off the same old nonsense as though nothing at all had happened, and, if indignantly challenged, effected amazement; he couldn't remember a thing except that he had proved the correctness of his assertions the previous day.
Sometimes I stood there thunderstruck.
I didn't know what to be more amazed at: the agility of their tongues or the virtuosity of their lying.
Gradually I began the hate them."
Just one point here, at that time, as he relates earlier in this chapter, virtually the entire leadership of the Social Democratic newspaper with whom Hitler was having these debates was Jewish. It appears that this passage is key to understanding why Hitler so hated both Jews and Marxism. But if you look back on arguments of Kidicious and others defending Marxism, you'll see the same pattern of argument as Hitler describes.
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29-10-2003 21:47
This is my argument.
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