13-10-2003 22:49									#1
	Is profit different from unfair tax? Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

No.

The US was founded on a revolution against unfair taxation. Anger over unfair taxes is part of our national identity. Working people who know very little about economics and politcs find it so easy to critisize the government because of what they percieve as unfair taxes. It's easy to see how taxes hurt you because they come out of your check or you have to pay them directly. Why can't more working people see that profit, rent and interest comes out of their pay too?

	13-10-2003 22:51									#2
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So you perpose that people not make any profits for the services they perform?

	13-10-2003 22:53									#3
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communists are dum

	13-10-2003 22:56									#4
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quote: Originally posted by Oerdin So you perpose that people not make any profits for the services they perform?

If you perform a service than you are paid a wage or salary. That's not profit.

	13-10-2003 22:57									#5
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Yes, and it's a dumb question.

	13-10-2003 22:58									#6
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I don't get your point, Kid.

Companies who have more profit should pay their employees more not only to be fair, but to attract even more better employees (and as an incentive for the good work they've obviously been doing).

But it's up to them, of course, where the new money is redistributed. It can go to top executives, it can go to the workers, or it can build huge reserves in banks so that it can pull it all out and cause financial meltdown later. ...

	13-10-2003 22:58									#7
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profit is different from an unfair tax.

why? because an unfair tax goes to enrich the government, while profit goes to enrich the person paid.

if anything, it's more like a kickback or bribe--both of which would be endemic in any stalinist/communist system devised thus far.

	13-10-2003 23:00									#8
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quote: If you perform a service than you are paid a wage or salary. That's not profit.

The equation:

Value of service = v
Pay for service = p
Profit = m

p-v=m

If a grocery store pays $40/hour to baggers, then does that mean the baggers aren't at least in everything but terminology earning a "profit"?

	13-10-2003 23:03									#9
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Have to remember, it's a person who is enthusiastic over the antiquated concept of communism that asks such a question.

	13-10-2003 23:07									#11
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mrmitchell you are looking at it from only one side of the ledger.

From the owner of the grocery store the bagger is getting paid for the value of the service as is the checker. Besides, the owner pays the bagger only from it's profit side while for the bagger what he sees it as is earnings.

Unfortunately, everytime money is exchanged there is tax. The grocer is taxed on supplying the service, the buyer taxed on the money they earned plus for par-taking in the service offered, the grocer is again taxed for the buyer partaking in the service, and then taxed again for paying his employees, who are also taxed for making money so that they can be a buyer... It's a vicious loop that has the government seeing money all the time... This is why the buyer can write-off a lot of this as expenses.

	13-10-2003 23:57									#12
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quote: Originally posted by Q Cubed profit is different from an unfair tax. why? because an unfair tax goes to enrich the government, while profit goes to enrich the person paid. if anything, it's more like a kickback or bribe--both of which would be endemic in any stalinist/communist system devised thus far.

Why would you want to enrich the capitalist, but not the govt? I don't want to enrich either one. I want all of what I earn.

	13-10-2003 23:59									#13
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yeah, 'cept that in a socialist/communist government, to prevent yourself from being ratted on by the neighbor, or to ensure that the wheels of justice turn in your favor, you have to pay, er, bribe the lawyer/policeman. it's a profit for them, mostly 'cause they don't have to do much other than look the other way.

	14-10-2003 00:00									#14
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quote: Originally posted by mrmitchell The equation: Value of service = v Pay for service = p Profit = m p-v=m

And the question is that if the value of your service is v, then why aren't you mad because you only get paid p.

	14-10-2003 00:01									#15
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Ok, now we have something that might actually be worthy of discussion.

Which form of government requires the most "GREASE" to be effective?

	14-10-2003 00:02									#16
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quote: Originally posted by Q Cubed yeah, 'cept that in a socialist/communist government, to prevent yourself from being ratted on by the neighbor, or to ensure that the wheels of justice turn in your favor, you have to pay, er, bribe the lawyer/policeman. it's a profit for them, mostly 'cause they don't have to do much other than look the other way.

That's not exclusive to communism. It's more related to culture.

	14-10-2003 00:22									#17
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Read up here all you need to know about profit

http://www.dmwright.com/html/ferengi.htm

	14-10-2003 00:26									#18
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quote: Originally posted by Dissident communists are dum

Yep, some more than others.

	14-10-2003 00:26									#19
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I hope none of you people espousing the evils of turning a profit never try and start a company of any sort.

	14-10-2003 00:31									#20
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quote: Originally posted by DanielXY Read up here all you need to know about profit http://www.dmwright.com/html/ferengi.htm

I like Rule 42: What's mine is mine, and what's yours is mine too.

	14-10-2003 00:36									#21
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seeing "unfair tax" is some obscure qualification of the idea of taxation. and profit is not. I'd say yah they are.

	14-10-2003 00:47									#22
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I spend my money on what I choose.
I have very little choice if the govt. decides i have to pay 70% income tax cos I am earning over a certain amount (something Lefties loved to do in britain in the 60's and 70's)

	14-10-2003 00:50									#23
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anyway, the 'profit' a company makes are the wages of the 'owner' (ie, all the profits a grocery store make are what contribute to the owners well being, his food, mortgage etc), in a big company the profits are a little more complex, but the principle is the same.

	14-10-2003 01:27									#24
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quote: Originally posted by Kidicious If you perform a service than you are paid a wage or salary. That's not profit.

Assuming you work for someone else. I guess your assumption is everyone should work for the state.

And profit has nothing to do with a tax. Or have you never heard of businesses losing money and going out of business?

	14-10-2003 01:29									#25
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quote: Originally posted by Kidicious And the question is that if the value of your service is v, then why aren't you mad because you only get paid p.

1) Because it's a dumbass simplistic equation.

2) Because the "value" of a service is different for different parties in the employer-employee-customer transaction.

	14-10-2003 02:14									#26
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Only once, Kidicious should look into an actual balance sheet of an ordinary grocery and compute the increase in net salary that would result of all the profit being allocated to the employees.

	14-10-2003 03:28									#27
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quote: Originally posted by Kidicious If you perform a service than you are paid a wage or salary. That's not profit.

WTF?

What is profit then? If profit is not, as I have been taught, money which exceeds your overhead, then what is it?

Were you drunk when you posted this thread?

So, if profit is the money that is added on to allow vendors to be renumerated for their services then what is taxation?

Taxation is the monies seized by the state, or the monies paid to the state in order to maintain services that the state provides.

So taxation and profit are alike only if the company who is making the profit is a large monopoly with armed thugs, maintining their monopolistic status with said thugs. Otherwise profit is a system by which vendors and workers maintain their lifestyles. What light does this shed on the sacred government.

	14-10-2003 03:34									#28
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quote: Originally posted by Dissident communists are dum

Capitalists, however, can't spell

	14-10-2003 03:37									#29
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quote: Originally posted by Kidicious And the question is that if the value of your service is v, then why aren't you mad because you only get paid p.

p > v in most cases. When p < v, you just don't sell your service.

Why would you be pissed?

	14-10-2003 20:04									#30
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quote: What is profit then? If profit is not, as I have been taught, money which exceeds your overhead, then what is it?

but those over heads don't include feeding the guys family, or the amount of effort he put in to run a succesfull company