15-10-2003 10:11									#1
	CFC will give us their troop info BUT... Support Apolyton

... we must give them the results of the study as well as give them a list of our own troop numbers. In short, show me yours and I'll show you mine.

I don't see why this is unreasonable since it is sensitive info. Please discuss.

quote: [17:32] [Octavian_X] Let's see... Did we ever give our response on the request for troop lists? [17:35] [MZ[Cooking]] nope [17:35] [Octavian_X] ok, then.... [17:36] [Octavian_X] We'll agree to hand out that list, on the condition that we recieve any and all conclusions that are made with that information, and that we will recieve a similar list from Apolyton. [17:36] [MZ[Cooking]] ok sounds good [17:36] [Octavian_X] ok. [17:37] [Octavian_X] I'll remind my lackies to cimpile that list when we next get the turn... [17:37] [MZ[Cooking]] let me get it by the consuls later tonight but I am quite positive they will agree [17:37] [Octavian_X] *compile

	15-10-2003 10:16									#2
	Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

It sounds good to me if we're trying to get a strong working partnership going with them. They seem to be a little more trusting of us lately, though that could just be Octavian, but if we do want to forget a strong partnership, this will go a long way to doing that.

	15-10-2003 10:19									#3
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

Give it to them. I don't see how information that will soon be outdated will hurt us in the future.

	15-10-2003 10:23									#4
	Increase the size of your Attachments

Another thing it might signal to them is that if we are willing to give them this info then we probably aren't going to be attacking them any time soon...which I don't believe we should anyway, even after we finish off GCA.

	15-10-2003 11:04									#5
	Tired of ads?

Agreed, let's cooperate with CFC on fair basis. I do not see us crossing sabres with them prior to cavalry.

	15-10-2003 13:42									#6
	Full PM-box? Change here!

Combined info from us and CFC will give us both a maximum and a minimum estimate to GCA's army size :-)

	15-10-2003 14:31									#7
	Got spare money?

What if they pass the secret info on to GCA? That wouldn't be nice...?

	15-10-2003 16:07									#8
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

GCA can "see" most of our Armies in their display as they are in their territory.

	15-10-2003 16:40									#9
	Suffering from ads?

Sure it wouldn't be nice if CFC passed info to GCA, but knowing just how big our armies are isn't gonna help them much.
Besides, CFC knows that if we find out that they leaked our info, then we can return the favor. If I were CFC, I wouldn't trust GCA to keep their mouths shut.

	15-10-2003 18:48									#10
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

What about the possibility that CFC will see how far behind they are in military terms and spend the entire war preparing for a defence against us.

	15-10-2003 19:07									#11
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

Then, they will fall behind economically and/or culturally. By the time they have an adequate defense, we'll have a tech lead, more cities, a bigger economy, etc.

	15-10-2003 19:35									#12
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

I don't see a problem with it. Personally, I think if we are going to have a shot at winning this game and not just our continent, we will have to work with CFC for at least a little while.

	15-10-2003 23:40									#13
	Tired of ads?

Donegeal, they'll be a lot more paranoid if we decline to share our numbers.
In the PTWDG, secrecy never helped my team. In fact, it screwed us up badly a number of times.

	16-10-2003 01:26									#14
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

I agree with the decision to share the information with CFC. Of course, this would be a "one time" disclosure.

--Togas

	16-10-2003 02:28									#15
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

Given that in about ten turns, the numbers we have now will be WILDLY inaccurate and CFC's will probably be only relatively inaccurate, I think it is laughably obvious that we should give that info to them. It does also build trust, and since we know our number-crunching is the best, maybe we can also develop that info into a general idea of CFC's military strength for a long time to come.....

whereas ours will be most unpredictable with builds and losses to come, yet.

	16-10-2003 03:25									#16
	Got spare money?

Given the points raised by those above, I agree that this one-time tactical sharing of classified information is the right way to go.

	16-10-2003 03:52									#17
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

Actually, I think it is a good idea just because it will help tremendously on the trust issue (which should be paramount). I was only trying to make sure we cover all the possible arguements about it.

	16-10-2003 06:02									#20
	Got spare money?

Things that don't matter in the calculation of civ streigth, like Catapults shouldn't be given.

E_T

	16-10-2003 12:07									#21
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

quote: Originally posted by E_T Things that don't matter in the calculation of civ streigth, like Catapults shouldn't be given.

Actually, Catapults are taken into account in the Army Strength Formula.

If we're going to request info, please specify the exact in-game date, to be able to run a good comparison with our info.

	16-10-2003 14:15									#22
	Tired of ads?

We need it for THIS upcoming turn. Since we have just decimated GCA's army, it is critical to determine how much GCA has left overall.

The reason is that I believe we should push on to Catchopolis IMMEDIATELY since we just killed their army and SEVEN spearmen that could have become pikemen. The whole of their offensive force is at minimal health after assaulting our troops last turn. It will take them time to retreat, heal, and strike again (if they're dumb enough to stay in Algalord, we rejoice and kill them, removing their threat permanently!).

If we push on to Catchopolis immediately, they will only have time for one more hit-and-run attack with their offensive units before we are at the gates of Catchopolis and ready to crash them in. Furthermore, I believe the bulk of their ENTIRE armed forces was/is contained within Algalord and they will have little beyond that. Their production capacity is not enough to build too many pikemen between now and us reaching Catchopolis to replace their losses. If we wait for more reinforcements, they will have time to lick their wonds, strike us hit-and-run more than once, and build more pikemen.

We have more to be gained by striking NOW with the current odds than by waiting. We'll actually lose more waiting than we'll gain in reinforcements.

BigFree disagrees with me, however, and believse that GCA probably has not only some additional force of considerable size behind this main one, but that they will build a large number of pikemen before we are able to reach Catchopolis even at best speed. As such, we should wait for our reinforcements and lay siege to the city as well as trying to split their forces between multiple cities by threatening both Catchopolis and Balance of Power (cutting roads in between to prevent mutual support).

Getting the unit info from CFC and their military strength relative to GCA could help to answer this question.

	17-10-2003 07:39									#23
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

What has happened with this? Have we gone ahead and swapped such info? Are we waiting for something...?

Sorry if these questiona re answered elsewhere, but I have been away and am trying to catch up on the recent... significant developments.

	17-10-2003 12:32									#24
	Remove this text

Trip, as the MoW, I authorize you to share our troop information with CFC, including Catapults. Just make sure you get CFC's troop info and relative military strength with every other Civ.

	17-10-2003 22:13									#26
	Remove this text

Have we done this yet? Let's do it already... timing is critical.

	20-10-2003 18:52									#27
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Bump!

What's CFC's Army?

	20-10-2003 20:24									#28
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They said they'd give us the info once they got their turn.

	22-10-2003 02:12									#29
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quote: [Bootstoots] 2 Workers, 1 Archer, 1 Spearman, 1 Swordsman, 1 Horseman, 13 Pikemen, 1 Catapult, 4 Medieval Infantries [Bootstoots] and we are currently strong against GCA...you must have really given them a beating last turn

Keep in mind most of GCA's offensive units are at very low HP right now, which affects the F3 rating.

	22-10-2003 02:19									#30
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Hmm, they are not in a very good shape. No wonder they are not eager to attack GCA (with what?).

Btw, 2 workers ?!?!