17-10-2003 02:24									#31
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I have a simple question. If this is "vintage" Mahatir, why is it that is prior outrages have not been reported on Nation Media in the United States? Why is this vile address to the Muslim conference not reported by the likes of CBS, NBC and ABC? Why? And why, in contrast, is the very modest question by Rush Limbaugh trumpeted by the same media as the hallmark example of racism in politics.

	17-10-2003 02:26									#32
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quote: Originally posted by Sikander Yea, and the almost complete lack of democracy in the muslim world (thanks to scum like Mattahir) has nothing to do with the fact that they are the only group in the world which has managed to slide backwards since the end of WW2.

Ever heard about a place called Africa?

	17-10-2003 02:28									#33
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The Jews rule the world.

I KNEW IT!!!!!!!!

	17-10-2003 02:32									#34
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quote: Originally posted by Ned I have a simple question. If this is "vintage" Mahatir, why is it that is prior outrages have not been reported on Nation Media in the United States? Why is this vile address to the Muslim conference not reported by the likes of CBS, NBC and ABC? Why? And why, in contrast, is the very modest question by Rush Limbaugh trumpeted by the same media as the hallmark example of racism in politics.

American news does not rate places like Malaysia very highly. They know that the local weather and traffic brings a lot higher ratings than the statements of a "President" from a country half a world away. Australians are much more familiar with Mahathir than most Americans. Let them tell you more.

	17-10-2003 02:38									#35
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pchang, no, the right answer is something called PC - where the only racism that is condemned is racism by the conservative right and by the Israeli hawks. Everyone else getss a pass, especially if they are Muslim or blacks or the like.

	17-10-2003 02:50									#36
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quote: Originally posted by Ned pchang, no, the right answer is something called PC -

Actually, pchang had it right. Foreign events get almost no attention in our media. For example, how much news coverage has there been about Uzbekistan's ferociously repressive government? How much coverage is there on the farce of an election in Chechnya? When was that last time you heard about the genocide in Burma?

PC's got nothin' to do with it.

	17-10-2003 03:06									#37
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There is no doubt the bad behaviour of Israel is feeding global hatred of Jews.

	17-10-2003 03:10									#38
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In a historical perspective, the popularity of the jewish people is at a lowpoint in the muslim world, that's for sure.

Btw, AH, I'm reading a book with you (your avatar) on the cover!!!

	17-10-2003 03:17									#39
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I expect those rascally French are behind this.

	17-10-2003 03:28									#40
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quote: Originally posted by Alexander's Horse There is no doubt the bad behaviour of Israel is feeding global hatred of Jews.

Is it that or is it that Israel's bad behavior serves as an excuse for people to indulge in their suppressed antiSemitism?

	17-10-2003 03:31									#41
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The fact that they think they're right doesn't mean they're right.

	17-10-2003 03:40									#42
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I think Anti-Semitism is way too overrated these days...its like the usual answer to all critisism when theres nothing else anyone can come up with anymore. Same thing with anti-americanism, why isnt there anti-europeans, anti-theothersemitesyouknowussamabenladenandpals, anti-china, why arent neo-nazis called anti-blacks or anti-africans etc

	17-10-2003 03:42									#43
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Because 'neo-nazi' sounds so much more positive and progressive!

	17-10-2003 04:21									#44
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quote: Originally posted by chegitz guevara Is it that or is it that Israel's bad behavior serves as an excuse for people to indulge in their suppressed antiSemitism?

A bit of both probably - but in South East Asia there are no Jews, and most ordinary people wouldn't know what a Jew was, so its really all about Israel's behaviour.

	17-10-2003 17:54									#45
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quote: Originally posted by Kropotkin Ever heard about a place called Africa?

All you know about Africa is what your state controlled media service tells you about it to make you feel lucky to be American. Good news is no news, Africa isn't all famine and war, there are nations that have come along way forward since colonialism and the creation of arbituary rescource-gathering demarcations for borders.

	17-10-2003 17:56									#46
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quote: Originally posted by Ned pchang, no, the right answer is something called PC - where the only racism that is condemned is racism by the conservative right and by the Israeli hawks. Everyone else getss a pass, especially if they are Muslim or blacks or the like.

Blacks n Muslims an the like? That's like saying Eurasians n Catholics an the like... demonstrates a profoundly ignorant understanding of human identity, culture and religion. Are you some kind of alien?

	17-10-2003 18:37									#47
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quote: Originally posted by Alexander's Horse A bit of both probably - but in South East Asia there are no Jews, and most ordinary people wouldn't know what a Jew was, so its really all about Israel's behaviour.

when merchant of venice was written, the jews had been expelled from england for 300 years. So was elizabethan antisemitism also caused by Israeli behavior? Couldnt have had something to do with christian culture, and the New Testament?

And antisemitism in say Indonesia couldnt have something to do with the spread of Wahabi islam in that country?

And antisemitism on the part of Mahathir doesnt have something to do with his fight against "gobalization" and for "the asian way" and his blaming Malaysian economic problems on George Soros (who is not a Zionist, AFAIK) It couldnt just be scapegoating, could it?

	17-10-2003 18:42									#48
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quote: Originally posted by Alexander's Horse A bit of both probably - but in South East Asia there are no Jews, and most ordinary people wouldn't know what a Jew was, so its really all about Israel's behaviour.

you mean they dont read the koran? in the absence of any local jews, wouldnt they form their views of Jews from the Koran and later muslim literature, just as christians who've never seen a Jew get theirs from the NT and later christian lit.

Note to horsey - when i was eight years old, my family went on vacation in Vermont. We went swimming in a local municipal pool. I started talking to another little 8 year old boy. Somehow i told him I was jewish ( i suppose he asked what church i went to) He told me that his mom had told him that the Jews hate god, that the Jews had murdered god. (being a very pious little attendee at a Reform Jewish sunday school I didnt have the foggiest idea what he was talking about - I certainly do now though ) Doesnt seem like he knew any Jews. Do you suppose his sentiment was based on Israeli behavior?

	17-10-2003 18:50									#49
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quote: Originally posted by laurentius I think Anti-Semitism is way too overrated these days...its like the usual answer to all critisism when theres nothing else anyone can come up with anymore. Same thing with anti-americanism, why isnt there anti-europeans, anti-theothersemitesyouknowussamabenladenandpals, anti-china, why arent neo-nazis called anti-blacks or anti-africans etc

Uh lets see - there are amreicans who are anti-europeans, but the folks who dont like them tend to call them unilateralist, imperialists, or fascists instead. Anti-muslims - yup. Anti-China - cant really think of anyone I consider "anti-china" . Why arent neo-nazis anti-black - well cause theyre anti a lot of people besides blacks.

historically antisemite was a name adopted BY antisemites (back when it was still fashionable) Its a perfectly useful word.

I would agree that antisemitism is "overrated" Its a terrible thing. Thats why its too bad its reemerging. Like here in a thread about a speech that obviously antisemitic, by a head of state, all some people can think of to say is to question why this troubles anyone.

	17-10-2003 18:50									#50
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Its really about Israel.

In muslim South East Asia, its the Chinese who are treated like Jews.

	17-10-2003 18:53									#51
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quote: Originally posted by problem_child All you know about Africa is what your state controlled media service tells you about it to make you feel lucky to be American. Good news is no news, Africa isn't all famine and war, there are nations that have come along way forward since colonialism and the creation of arbituary rescource-gathering demarcations for borders.

yeah although given that one of the countries that had come the farther forward - Ivory Coast - has had a devastating civil war, its easy to feel despair. There are some success stories - Namibia, Mozambique, Uganda - but its not all that wrong to see the continent overall as failing to move forward, when the major states, like Nigeria and Congo are in such bad shape.

	17-10-2003 18:54									#52
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quote: Originally posted by Alexander's Horse Its really about Israel. .

Its not.

	17-10-2003 18:59									#53
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It is, I've lived there.

	17-10-2003 19:04									#54
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In Israel?

	17-10-2003 19:08									#55
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quote: Originally posted by Alexander's Horse It is, I've lived there.

makes you an expert on the views of every southeast asian muslim I guess, from Penang to Kuala Lampur to Aceh to Java to Borneo. And that you can tell for sure whether even the muslims you knew there were genuinely moved by israeli behavior, or whether they was israeli behavior through the lens of preexisting views of the Jews.

Nice that youve lived there, and if you ever care to share your actual experiences i'll be interested. But i see no need to accept broad assertions unbacked by evidence, especially when you ignored my points.

	17-10-2003 19:08									#56
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no, Indonesia. Could speak the lingo too. Lived next to one of the biggest mosques. They banged on about Israel constantly. The intifada was on at that time.

	17-10-2003 19:10									#57
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quote: Originally posted by Alexander's Horse no, Indonesia. Could speak the lingo too. Lived next to one of the biggest mosques. They banged on about Israel constantly. The intifada was on at that time.

dont need to go to Java to know that they talk about Israel constantly. I could have told you that, without without going any closer to indonesia than San diego. I can also tell you that lots of Neonazis and holocaust deniers go on about Israel alot. Doesnt prove that its all about Israel.

	17-10-2003 19:12									#58
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you basically have no idea what you are talking about, do you.

	17-10-2003 19:19									#59
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quote: Originally posted by lord of the mark Note to horsey - when i was eight years old, my family went on vacation in Vermont. We went swimming in a local municipal pool. I started talking to another little 8 year old boy. Somehow i told him I was jewish ( i suppose he asked what church i went to) He told me that his mom had told him that the Jews hate god, that the Jews had murdered god. (being a very pious little attendee at a Reform Jewish sunday school I didnt have the foggiest idea what he was talking about - I certainly do now though ) Doesnt seem like he knew any Jews. Do you suppose his sentiment was based on Israeli behavior?

That's a very sad story. My sympathies.

	17-10-2003 19:21									#60
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AP


"At their own summit in Brussels, Belgium, European Union leaders had drafted a harshly worded statement condemning Mahathir's remarks, but French President Jacques Chirac blocked the wording from becoming a part of a final declaration.

The text had said Mahathir's "unacceptable comments hinder all our efforts to further interethnic and religious harmony, and have no place in a decent world. Such false and anti-Semitic remarks are as offensive to Muslims as they are to others."

Chirac, however, said there was no place in an EU declaration for such a text. EU leaders compromised by having Italian Premier Silvio Berlusconi criticize Mahathir at his closing news conference. Officials said the draft text also would be issued as a separate statement and would be posted on the EU presidency Web site.

Australian Prime Minister John Howard called Mahathir's comments offensive and repugnant. "

Howard

Chirac: