18-10-2003 23:31									#91
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quote: Originally posted by Sandman Marx wasn't Jewish. His dad was a Jew who converted to Protestantism, if I remember rightly.

Hebrew then, or half Hebrew if you prefer.
It is just that most of the times this two terms are used interchangeably though the one declares religious beliefs and the other racial/national hypostasis.

I guess that was what that Malaysian prime minister meant...

	18-10-2003 23:41									#92
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quote: Originally posted by Keygen I guess that was what that Malaysian prime minister meant...

Or he didn't know what he was talking about. Lots of bigots have a tendancy to do that.

	18-10-2003 23:47									#93
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That socialism and communism should have been a 'jewish invention' is not something that has been based on Marx' father alone. There has been a lot of other prominent jewish communists. But, and this is really the important part, this 'connection' has been more or less fabricated by people that have something against both jews and communists. Many of these 'jews' was about as jewish as Karl Marx, they had some parent or grandparent that was jewish. Lenin's grandfather is claimed to have been jewish. You have to be quite biased to think that's of importance, but some people do.

	18-10-2003 23:57									#94
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quote: Originally posted by Sandman Apart from in True Lies. And Back to the Future part I.

Since 9/11.

	18-10-2003 23:58									#95
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Well, it's really hard to tell when back to the future was made. It's going back and forth all the time.

	18-10-2003 23:59									#96
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The part with the Libyan non-terrorists was clearly set in 1985.

	19-10-2003 00:01									#97
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quote: Originally posted by Ned I have been watching for a report of this on ABC Evening News. Nada. Nothing. Censorship. Anyone surprised?

And, just to drive the point home, the day the Mahathir story broke, ABC News lead item was the story on the General who made anti-Islam remarks.

It is not hard to detected ABC's bias.

	19-10-2003 00:02									#98
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quote: Originally posted by Ned ... the hatred of George Bush by Hollywood and by the national news media other than FOX is profound and corrupting. There is no doubt that racist Muslim leaders have long recieved a pass from Hollywood and the national media.

Oh, joy. Another informed and enlightened citizen speaks out. How about you pull your head out of your buttocks and expand your reading and viewing list beyond Fox? You accuse the "national" media of hating Bush while give racist Muslims a free pass, yet you yourself apparently can't be bothered to examine issues beyond what's spoon-fed to you by Fox.

You want to really understand what goes on around you, Ned? Then make a point of having more than one source that provides you with information. Diversification, in this case, is a very good thing to have.

Gatekeeper

	19-10-2003 00:28									#99
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quote: Originally posted by Keygen What does this guy mean by that: "invented socialism, communism, human rights and democracy"? OK, Marx was a jewish. Not sure about Hengels. But human rights and democracy?!? Does he claims that Solon and Kleisthenes were jewish? I suspect he meant a more modern democracy but which one? And what is this hysteria about jewish controlling the world?

Muslim nations are often criticized for human rights abuses, so naturally human rights are a Zionist plot to keep them oppressed.

	19-10-2003 00:48									#100
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quote: Originally posted by Alexander's Horse There is no doubt the bad behaviour of Israel is feeding global hatred of Jews.

why isnt the bad behvaior of all those muslims feeding global hatred of muslims? why do muslims always get a free pass? why do they get to hate jews for the behavior of israel but no1 gets to hate muslims? seems awfully close to talking out ur ass.

	19-10-2003 01:01									#101
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Oh yeah, muslims are so damn popular in the western world! Furthermore, you're mixing up things here. It's hardly the case that it's OK to hate jews but not muslims. AH is only pointing to a reason for this, not that it's OK to hate jews.

	19-10-2003 01:12									#102
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quote: Originally posted by Gatekeeper Oh, joy. Another informed and enlightened citizen speaks out. How about you pull your head out of your buttocks and expand your reading and viewing list beyond Fox? You accuse the "national" media of hating Bush while give racist Muslims a free pass, yet you yourself apparently can't be bothered to examine issues beyond what's spoon-fed to you by Fox. You want to really understand what goes on around you, Ned? Then make a point of having more than one source that provides you with information. Diversification, in this case, is a very good thing to have. Gatekeeper

True, not all of Hollywood and the national media hate Bush. But most do, Gatekeeper. Defend the press and Hollywood as best you are able, but the bias is deep and apparent.

Look at the travesty of the LA Times and the Schwarzenegger campaign for one recent example. The anti-Republican bias was blatant.

The president of ABC news recently lambasted his people for being way too negative on their reporting of Iraq. I have tried to demonstrate their bias here from time to time by showing what stories they cover and what they ignore. But their anti-Bush bias is overwhelming and obvious. They also have this PC thing going by only reporting racist comments from the right and giving a pass to everyone else - especially Muslims.

Peter Jennings even today said that the national media has declared war on Bush. Does that sound "even-handed?"

	19-10-2003 01:19									#103
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And, have you guys heard of the racist remarks of one Warren Sapp of the Tampa Bay Bucs? No? I heard about them on the HBO program Inside the NFL. But I could not find his actual remarks on any website or story on Sapp this week. Perhaps others can find the remarks. But generally, the media simply did not report what Sapp said.

Why?

And this is right after the firestorm of Rush Limbaugh.

	19-10-2003 01:57									#104
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quote: Originally posted by Ned (...)the national media hate Bush.(...)

Ned, I tell you this as a fellow Apolytoner: you really, really need to read Al Franken's "Lies and the Lying Liars Who Tell Them."

	19-10-2003 02:30									#105
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mindseye, give me a little more incentive than that. Give me a synopsis of the book.

	19-10-2003 05:07									#106
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quote: Originally posted by Ned Since 9/11.

What, two years? That's just a handful of films. Apart from the Sum of all Fears, what other films have 'failed' to have Islamic terrorists as the enemy?

	19-10-2003 05:14									#107
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quote: Originally posted by Keygen I suspect he meant a more modern democracy but which one?

With the case of the US, there were not many Jews around when the US Constitution was created, you can argue they played a role, but saying they "created US democracy is rather silly."

	19-10-2003 06:04									#108
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Presuming that in fact the Jews did control the world, then why would they do the following.

1)Have people working around the clock to dig up new cases against German industry, in order that they recompense them for slave labour.

2) Have various agencies like the Simon Wiesenthal institute hunting down nazi war criminals or exposing people with neo-nazi sympathies.

3)Constantly lobbying for socalled Holocaust institutes in various countries, for creation of holocaust memorials, for museums and so on.

4)Have movie directors such as Roman Polanski and Steven Spielberg making movies about the tragic experience of the jews. Often in a sentimentalist tone that placates the modern corrupt anglo-saxonized culture.

(All these points above have been made by the Jewish Scholar Norman Finkeslteinwhois the author of the book 'The Holocaust Industry'.)

5)Have a man with quite questionable credentials, Sharon, promising to bring down fire and brimstone on anyone anywhere who are threatening the interests of the state of Israel. What threatening behavior is is of course up to the conscience of the individual

6)Have Mossad agenst conducting assasinations in countires as far as way as Norway, and infiltrating Universities undercover in order to expose anti-semitist behaviour there.

7)Spend millions of dollars on influencing the American government into supporting the state of Israel. As if the United States made the decision on supporting Israel, not on moral grounds, but rather as a result of Machevellian policy (!)

8)Having crazy people, quite possibly from the Jewish Defense League, making death threats against Amerian University professors who speak on the behalf of the Palestinians.

In fact all these things point toward the fact that the Jews have absolutely no power over the world. If they had any power whatsoever I would think it would work in slightly more secret or clever fashion. However it doesn't.

But then some people say that: 'Look at the neo-conservatives in Washington, like Perle, Wolfowitz and so on. they are all jews!'. Maybe, but do they have any power? No, they are finished. The whole Iraq business is a total mess, a loser issue. The self-admiring 'tough guys', personified by Schwarzenegger, an Austrian, are moving in now. Some senators are even calling for an amendement that should allow non-naturals to become president.

To cut a long storty short if the Jews had any power over the world, which they never had, they are losing it. In fact I think that to be quite tragic, since (never mind Sharon and the neo-cons) they are on average a force of moderation. Now is Bush, Cheney and Rumsfeld?
In fact this Mahatnir person should be attacking the Anglo-Saxons, if he found the world an unfair place.

	19-10-2003 07:01									#109
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On the question of anti-semitism:

I view there as being two forms; number one is really not ant-semitism by itself, it is only normal human xenophobia aimed at a jew. All human societies are xenophobic, though at different intensities. Strangers, people who look different, speak differently and have dfferent norms are not rusted equally.

The there is proper anti-semitism, which is a product of history. To hate the Jews, you must think the Jew matter or are "special" in some way. For some Hindu or Chinese peasant a jew is nothing more or less than anyone else who is funny looking speak differently and so forth. Only in MOnotheistic societies is this form of Anti-semitism exhibited, and the reaosn is simple: both of the universalist Monotheistic movements, Christianity and Islam, spring by varying degrees from the particualristic Monotheistic tradition of the Jews. As such, both of these movements were born in relation to the Jews, and thus the question of the Jews exists. Now, and I have said this before, history shows that Christianity as a whole had a much more vivid history with the Jews, and why not? Christianity was begun by a jew, it's first followers were jews, and it spread into a society (Roman) were Jews were not particularly popular (damn them and their rebellions). Islam being more separated by space and time paid less attention to the jews, which is why the record of anti-semitism is much lower. Certainly first class anti-semitism existed forever (jews were not muslims, acted differenty, how could they be treated equally?), but the second type was far weaker in islam for mst of its history. The hisotry of the last 100 years changed that. I do think Israel and its creation and actions play an important role in the growth of second-type antisemitism in Islamic lands (including lands with almost no jews like SE Asia). BUt rapid demographic change, repressive regime and political stagnation, and the throes of modern technology and ideas all contribute as well.

	19-10-2003 12:57									#110
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Ned:

I defend the media from the perspective that I've had as an official member of it for more than five years now. Whenever I see someone going on about how "liberal" or "right-wing" the media is, I generally just let out a long sigh because at my place of employment (a trans-national media company), we've been accused of both (and more than once). In news biz, that's a good thing — if we're pissing off the folks with agendas, then we're doing something right and doing our readers a service.

Gatekeeper

	20-10-2003 04:08									#111
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quote: Originally posted by yavoon why isnt the bad behvaior of all those muslims feeding global hatred of muslims?

obviously it does, it cuts both ways.

But when was the last time you saw a Jew portrayed as a villain in a movie?

	20-10-2003 04:13									#112
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My favorite part:

quote: They invented socialism, communism, human rights and democracy so that persecuting them would appear to be wrong, so that they can enjoy equal rights with others.

Ah, so it only appears to be wrong.

Also, I wasn't aware that we invented any of the four things listed.

	20-10-2003 05:54									#113
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quote: Originally posted by Alexander's Horse But when was the last time you saw a Jew portrayed as a villain in a movie?

Given the small percentage of the overall population that is Jewish you actually wouldn't expect this to occur that often. One example that comes fairly close is in "Star Wars: The Phantom Menace", Senator Palpatine may not be actually described as Jewish, but as a Jewish actor plays the part, he looks very Jewish and the camera even plays up the prominence of his nose in one scene in an attempt to make him seem more sinister.

A clear example of Jews being portrayed as villians would be in "The Passion" by Mel Gibson.

Why he might not have portrayed as really being a villian, the movie "Casino" featured Rothstein as a Jewish gangster who did do some nasty things during the course of movie.

	20-10-2003 06:09									#114
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quote: But when was the last time you saw a Jew portrayed as a villain in a movie?

Well, actually, that happens a lot. In Egyptian movies, that is.

	20-10-2003 12:32									#115
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What about the owner of Anikin Skywalker's mother?

	20-10-2003 13:39									#116
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quote: Originally posted by Mordoch Given the small percentage of the overall population that is Jewish you actually wouldn't expect this to occur that often. One example that comes fairly close is in "Star Wars: The Phantom Menace", Senator Palpatine may not be actually described as Jewish, but as a Jewish actor plays the part, he looks very Jewish and the camera even plays up the prominence of his nose in one scene in an attempt to make him seem more sinister. A clear example of Jews being portrayed as villians would be in "The Passion" by Mel Gibson. Why he might not have portrayed as really being a villian, the movie "Casino" featured Rothstein as a Jewish gangster who did do some nasty things during the course of movie.

Right and the dark side of the force is Judaism and the good side is Christianity.

Jabba the Hut is clearly a rabbi.

The death Star is the arc of the covenant.

Darth Vader is obviously Noah.

	20-10-2003 14:06									#118
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That film is filled with stereotypes. Haven't thought about Palpatine as a jew though. More on Azazels line there.

	20-10-2003 14:20									#119
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Of course its filled with steryotypes, its about the battle between good and evil.

	20-10-2003 14:46									#120
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Ok then, national stereotypes.