17-10-2003 02:25									#1
	Who's the bigger bastard, Castro or Pinochet? Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

Two Latin American dictators. Both have many opponents and some defenders, even today. So... oh, why do these poll threads even need any explanation? Vote, damn you!

	17-10-2003 02:28									#2
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I think it'd have to be Pinochet. While Castro has been an authoritarian repressor of human rights and deserves to be condemned by that, he wasn't in to the whole mass death thing like Pinochet was.

	17-10-2003 04:05									#3
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As Shi said, Castro oppresses people, Pinochet kills people. Moreover, Castro believes he is doing something good. He is misguided, IMHO. Pinochet knows that killing people is not a 'good' thing to do.

	17-10-2003 04:13									#4
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Pinochet was evil. Castro is just misguided.

	17-10-2003 04:13									#5
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Pinochet pulled off the world's biggest magic trick: thousands disappeared without a trace!

Castro is just Batista with universal health care/education and a few less ass whippings ...

	17-10-2003 04:14									#6
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Castro is God, Pino is Devil

	17-10-2003 04:15									#7
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quote: Originally posted by The Templar Castro is just Batista with universal health care/education and a few less ass whippings ...

. . . and less corruption and no torture and no disappearances and no extrajudicial killings (since the fall of the previous government) and no homelessness . . .

	17-10-2003 04:16									#8
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quote: Castro is just Batista with universal health care/education and a few less ass whippings ...

Well, that just takes all of the fun out of it, doesn't it?

	17-10-2003 04:22									#9
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What Shi said

	17-10-2003 04:24									#10
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quote: Originally posted by chegitz guevara . . . and less corruption and no torture and no disappearances and no extrajudicial killings (since the fall of the previous government) and no homelessness . . .

Huh, didn't know anyone disappeared under Batista. Learn something new every day.

	17-10-2003 04:24									#11
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quote: Originally posted by Shi Huangdi I think it'd have to be Pinochet. While Castro has been an authoritarian repressor of human rights and deserves to be condemned by that, he wasn't in to the whole mass death thing like Pinochet was.

You're a traitor to the republic party and the american people, and should be executed immideately.


I agree with Shi.

	17-10-2003 04:27									#12
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Pinochet gets my vote for the torture and murder of thousands of young people. Like in Argentina, most of the victiims were idealistic young kids, teenagers, university students.

Such a tragedy, the flower of a generation cut down before they could even make a contribution to their society.

Castro is no angel either but the tragedy there is the US turned on him too early.

	17-10-2003 04:34									#13
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quote: Originally posted by The Templar Huh, didn't know anyone disappeared under Batista. Learn something new every day.

Not alot, but some.

	17-10-2003 04:37									#14
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Well, the Castro regime isn't all that peachy that way, either. But of course, comparing to Pinochet, he's a ****ing angel.

He just held an Israeli writer for a couple of years, thinking he was a Mossad spy.

	17-10-2003 04:38									#15
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which he probably was

	17-10-2003 04:40									#16
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Why, of course.

	17-10-2003 04:44									#17
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It's not like Mossad never messes around in Latin America. Hell, the IDF trained Guatemalan officers when the U.S. was forbidden to do so by Congress (at a time when the leaders of Guatemala believed there was a world wide Jewish conspiracy to destroy capitalism).

	17-10-2003 04:46									#18
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So why did they release him?

quote: at a time when the leaders of Guatemala believed there was a world wide Jewish conspiracy to destroy capitalism

This makes sense.

	17-10-2003 04:47									#19
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The usual procedure is to expel spies if they have a foreign citizenship.

Anyways, Castro is bad, but Pinochet was extremely bad. Any government that does not give people a say is obviously reprehensible and neither of the two regimes did or does.

	17-10-2003 04:59									#20
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quote: Originally posted by Azazel quote: at a time when the leaders of Guatemala believed there was a world wide Jewish conspiracy to destroy capitalism This makes sense.

When the U.S. can't get involved directly, Israel will sometimes do our dirty work. Remember, this was when you were selling weapons to Iran, a sworn enemy, on our behalf.

	17-10-2003 05:00									#21
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I misvoted. Subtract a pinochet vote

	17-10-2003 05:01									#22
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quote: When the U.S. can't get involved directly, Israel will sometimes do our dirty work. Remember, this was when you were selling weapons to Iran, a sworn enemy, on our behalf.

Erm, what time was that, again?

	17-10-2003 05:06									#23
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quote: Originally posted by St Leo Any government that does not give people a say is obviously reprehensible and neither of the two regimes did or does.

The Cuban people have quite a bit of say in their government. They may not be able to choose between parties, but they don't have to vote for Communists at the lower levels and theycan choose among them at higher levels. Granted, that's not what we call free government, but it is a say.

On top of that, Castro personally goes around and holds meetings with large bodies of people in Cuba, listening to their problems and then directing resources to take care of them. In this sense, he is very much in line with the old Latin American caudillos, or strong men.

This is one of the secrets to Castro's popularity. People blame the government for problems, but know that when Castro hears about them, he'll fix things right up. Of course, since resources are limited, as Castro goes from place to place, eventually resources promised to one place must be pulled away to fix some new promise Castro has made, and the government, not Castro, gets the blame.

So the Cuban people actually do have input, considerably more than most people imagine.

	17-10-2003 05:08									#24
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quote: Originally posted by Azazel quote: When the U.S. can't get involved directly, Israel will sometimes do our dirty work. Remember, this was when you were selling weapons to Iran, a sworn enemy, on our behalf. Erm, what time was that, again?

That would be the whole Iran-Contra scandal back in the early 1980s. We sold weapons to Israel, who then turned around and sold them to Iran, because we couldn't directly sell to Iran.

	17-10-2003 05:10									#25
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Yes, I remembered it just as I hit the 'send' button. What was the reason the US wanted to sell weapons to Iran? I didn't understand this.

	17-10-2003 05:11									#26
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quote: Originally posted by Azazel Yes, I remembered it just as I hit the 'send' button. What was the reason the US wanted to sell weapons to Iran? I didn't understand this.

Trying to get back the hostages that the Bekaa valley terrorists had captured.

	17-10-2003 05:13									#27
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Ahh, I am reading the report as we speak.



what a moronic plan...

	17-10-2003 05:15									#28
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quote: Originally posted by TCO Trying to get back the hostages that the Bekaa valley terrorists had captured.

There were three reasons. This was the first reason.

2) to try and ensure a stalemate between Iran and Iraq. The U.S. aided both sides so that neither side would win.

3) To generate some unaccounted revenue that could then be shunted illegally to the Contras, without the Treasury or Congress knowing about it. This is why people went to jail (though they were ultimately pardoned).

	17-10-2003 05:16									#29
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quote: Originally posted by Azazel what a moronic plan...

It did get some hostages released. But then more would just be taken.

	17-10-2003 05:21									#30
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I just read a report. It seems that not all of them were released.

In any case, I think the president should be impeached for such a thing.

Stupid stupid stupid. As to the involvement of our leadership, it seems as if, this wasn't something that could actually threaten Israel's security, yet is very idiotic, too.