10-12-2003 16:33									#91
	Inflate your Upload Space

Who ever did it, now it's too late. We'll have to hope the Hive hasn't got some secret alliance with Peace (not very likely )

	10-12-2003 16:41									#92
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quote: Originally posted by Maniac Who told the Hive we were going to war in MY 2150??

IIRC, I do remember that Corellion did seem to have...eh, loose lips?

	10-12-2003 17:23									#93
	Put an end to popups!

It couldn't have been Correlion, he hasent even logged on in 2 weeks. We only made the desision to accelerate the war to 2150 after we got the info from the Hive. Prior to that it was 2152 as far as I know (Manic do you know if 2150 was an important date in the past?). It seems to me the leak happened very resently.

Should I just ask HongHu who told her, she may have heard it from someone else in the Hive and might not know who the leak is but I figure its worth a try.

	10-12-2003 17:42									#94
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

Of course, this is not reflective of the moderating staff in any way, however...
It would probably be wise to go to the top

[/Freeadvice]

	11-12-2003 20:59									#95
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PM from HongHu:

quote: Dip matters How is your negotiation with the PUT going? Do you need more time? We need to hear from you before we play our turn. Normally buster plays pretty quick. If you need more time maybe we could try talk buster into taking more time?

What should I respond?

	11-12-2003 21:56									#96
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How about this message proposal? (Sent after approval of Impaler who was on chat)

quote: Hi HongHu, It indeed looks like we will need more time for the negotations, as all members of PUT are quite inactive to say the least. Several days ago they told us they were interested in Applied Physics and asked us what we wanted. Yesterday GeneralTacticus sent me a message saying they're presently discussing our proposal, but that he is quite busy. So I get the feeling it may still take quite a while and that it might be a good idea to ask buster to wait a bit with playing the turn. I'm not really aware of Drogue's diplomatic policy, but AFAIK his latest proposal was to offer AppPhys and 30 credits. I don't know if PUT would accept that though. Personally if I was PUT I wouldn't, but then again they seemed really eager to get AppPhys for some reason. If PUT doesn't respond in the next day, do you want us to increase our offer to PUT? The problem is that we are quite short on cash right now, and that we can't offer PUT anything higher than 50 credits or so. So my question is, if we have to go higher than 50 credits and AppPhys to get EcoEng, would you be willing to make up for the difference and give us the credits we have to pay more than 50 credits? If so, what would be the maximum prize you want us to offer to PUT in order to get EcoEng? When we have more cash, we are of course willing to repay you part of the credits you would give us now. Greetings, Mani Alpha-3 Prime Function of the Cybernetic Consciousness

	12-12-2003 00:22									#97
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HongHu's answer:

quote: I have to talk to the turn player to see if the Hive could spare some ecs for this deal. However, one suggestion is for you to offer both AP and Initiative to uni for trading of Eco Eng and SHB. Make sure to stress that CyCon isn't in great need of SHB but the init-SHB deal was added to balance out the AP-EcoEng imbalance. So kind of indicating you are actually sacrificing to facilitate the trade. What do you think about that? Hong

Should we try that? We get a useless technology: SotHB. I'll ask HongHu if they would want to give us Gene Splicing if we offered them SotHB. Then that tech might still have some indirect value.

***

Edit:

I sent this to HongHu:

quote: Hi HongHu, I have announced this proposal to the Collective. I'll see what others think. Anyway, SotHB is indeed useless for us. Therefore to make the tech more attractive I was wondering, if we got SotHB, would you be willing to trade that against Gene Splicing? IIRC you mentioned that you attached a great value to SotHB, the prerequisite of Neural Grafting. Greetings, Mani Alpha-3

Her response:

quote: RE: Re: Re: Dip matters In the Hive's offer we proposed to offer Gene Splicing for SHB and NG. I can promise you that upon receiving SHB we could immediately transmit Gene Splicing to you without waiting for you to complete NG. I have also mentioned to Function Impaler that I might be able to persude the Hive not to ask you to reseach NG for us. However, since Gene Splicing for SHB were pretty imbalanced I cannot promise you this at this moment before I gain concensus from the Hive leaderships. SHB is not in great need by the Hive also, it is only soughted for because it is a prequisit of NG which is a prequisit of bioengineering. While NG also offers the benefit of enabling the production of two special ability units, the SHB offers trance, which is not utterly needed. The only argument I could use to pursude others to accept Gene Splicing versas SHB deal is that CyCon will appreciate getting Gene Splicing and with long lasting friendship between Hive and CyCon you would do the same thing for the Hive in the future.

She seems to attach a really huge importance to Gene Splicing. Am I perhaps missing something? In our current status the biggest reason to get Gene Splicing would IMHO be that it is a prerequisite to Synthetic Fossil Fuels. It gives research hospitals, but we don't even have network nodes or hologram theatres in our bases, so it will probably be a while before we build the first one of that. Gene Splicing gives the ability to produce more than 3 nutrients in non-bonus squares, but until we have a bunch of sea bases that will hardly make a difference for us. Besides we can always trade with PUT if need be. Also personally I consider EnvEcon (tree farms!) way more important than Gene Splicing, yet that they seem way more willing to trade away for the lower level tech EcoEng.
So am I missing something?

	13-12-2003 23:00									#98
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

How about I offer HongHu a few ec too? Say a tech (SoHB if we get it) and a few ec for Gene Splicing? We want that both for nut restirictions lifting and SFF. Or we could loan them a cruiser for it, so they can reverse engineer and then give it back, as they suggested. One turn for a cruiser is easily worth GS.

	13-12-2003 23:19									#99
	Increase the size of your Attachments

We would first have to move the cruiser to their territory before we can turn over unit control. Then they would have to move it back to our territory before we can use it again.

	14-12-2003 04:50									#100
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I would very much like getting Gene Splicing as we can start farming our rainy tiles and harvesting additonal Nuts. None of the other things it provides are very important ofcorse. SFF would be a sufficient reason to get the tec though. We also need to get Doc Loyalty from them soon, perhaps trading something we take from PEACE in exchange for it, Progenitor Pych perhaps.

	14-12-2003 05:23									#101
	Increase the size of your Attachments

We could build a 1-1-8 cruiser, just to take bases (since the others attack, we need one to take the base) and loan that to the Hive for a turn or two?

	14-12-2003 05:59									#102
	Got spare money?

quote: Originally posted by Maniac Who told the Hive we were going to war in MY 2150??

I did. I am sorry if I overstepped it, but my reasons were thus:
The Hive and PEACE are not friendly. They are pacted for convenience, but like we were in the final days of our pact, are trying to do them over, so to speak. They're pact was temporary, and they do not wish to be allies, as such, with them. They do with us.

Add to that that they were feeling very shaky about our feelings towards them. They knew that the old members were pro-Hive, but did not know about the new ones. They were feeling very trepid about giving us information, because they weren't sure of our feelings for mutual pacting, etc. HongHu asked me about PEACE plans, so either it was tell her, or tell a lie, that will be found out when we attack, and would harm relations a lot. Our best, and possibly only hope for victory is with the Hive and/or Drones. Risking that, which IMHO would have been lost if they felt we were lying to them, is a lot mroe risky to the CyCon than telling them we wanted to attack 2 years earlier than planned.

Imagine how the UK would feel, IRL, if the US had attacked Iraq a couple of months earlier, without even telling them. Pretty peeved I would have thought. It would damage relations no-end, possibly ending their co-operation on that level. We cannot afford to surprise our allies that much. I want to win this game. The triumverate works for RP (a cybernetic society, with telepathy, automatically means everyone knows everything, and so there is no discention), in game terms (the only real chance for a CyCon victory IMHO - we can't fight the Hive and Drones and hope to win) and most importantly in fun terms, that if this game isn't won in a few months, participation will drop, as only two or three factions are left, and it will end up not being finished. The last DG shows what happens if things drag on.

Therefore, IMHO, the best interest of the CyCon, and most logical option, is to ally with people that can give us a few more months of fun, and then we win. It would work on all levels. However if we attacked without them knowing it, taking them by surprise, while they were already very shaky about our trust of them, we would have a lot to recover to get trust for a long term pact and victory. Therefore, having been given the option of lying, which would have been found out when we attacked, or giving them the year we were going to attack, knowing they are not friendly with the person we are going to attack, I did what I thought was in the best interest of the CyCon, and told them. If you disagree, then I am sorry. I had to make a decision and I chose what I thought, and still think, is in our best interests, on every level (RP, game and fun).

I must resurrect the constitution discussion, since we need one. As EAF, without a constitution to bind us, it was my place to make that decision, bearing in mind that I had to choose, and did not have time in a conversation to ask the general consensus. I was, I believe, acting in an emergency, in the field that is my responsibility. Moreover, I felt (and still feel) I had little choice: if I wanted to keep Hive/CyCon relations strong and an alliance possible, which IMHO is the most important diplomatic objective, I had to choose to do that.

quote: Originally posted by Maniac so we do not know where the loyalties of all Hive members lie.

None of them lie with PEACE. Of that I am pretty sure. If I thought there was a credible risk of it being passed on, I wouldn't have acted like I did.

quote: Originally posted by Maniac Therefore the Hive should still be treated as a foreign faction

If we do that, we wreck our only decent chance for victory, and resign this game to a long, drawn out and boring finale, with 2 or 3 factions left, and no-one really bothering about it. I don't want that. I want to win and have fun. If we treat them no as an ally, we wreck the chance to win. I think it's easily worth the risk, IMHO.

I accept I went further than I wanted to, but given the choice of tell them or lie to a very important ally when it would be found out soon, I would choose again exactly what I did. It was an exceptional circumstance, and warrented that action, IMHO. I am sorry if I offended anyone, I could not think of a better action.

This is an explanation of why I said it. I'm sorry it seems as if its overcompensation. I think it was needed to clear it up. Sorry I didn't reply sooner, I didn't see it before, and have been on Oxford University interviews for the past two days.

	14-12-2003 06:48									#103
	Inflate your Upload Space

I understand your decision. But couldn't you in a similar situation - instead of telling them or lying to them - simply say that you are not authorized to reveal such information, or that you first want to talk to the Collective before possibly giving an answer? After all, unless you know more than I, though they were so friendly to provide us part of the PEACE info we requested , it's not like the Hive is answering every question we ask them. IIRC in the past I asked them per PM what their relation with the drones was, who owed what techs to who after all their leapfrogging etc, but they avoided the question. Likewise I don't think we should tell them eg our exact battle plans, even if HongHu directly asks about them as IIRC she did in one of her posts on the VoyForum.

Regarding winning together with the Hive and Drones, unless the situation has changed in the meantime, the Drones still don't want to win with three factions as it is too easy, and the Hive still doesn't want to betray or to win without the Drones. So until one of those two change opinion, it seems rather impossible to me to get a 3-way-victory. As a consequence we should at the moment think of our own interest first, and only then about the Hive.

	14-12-2003 12:20									#104
	Get a bigger avatar today!

Manic is right, silence is always an option.

I was more peved at the fact this information had gotten out without knowing WHO had given it out. If you reveal a significant secret to another faction please inform us of it so that the rest of us dont sound like fools when talking to them or get caught in a contraditon that may reveal us to be lieing (must keep our lies consistent you know).

I agree we realy realy want to avoid a long drawn out game with the all the factions trying to Grind each other up as this would take long time to finish if ever. But I think we should play as if thats a posibility. We want to grow our empire by concquest and expantion untill it rivals the Hive. My personal goal is to achive victory with the Hive and Drones subordinate to us rather then the other way around.

	14-12-2003 19:09									#105
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

quote: Originally posted by Impaler[WrG] I was more peved at the fact this information had gotten out without knowing WHO had given it out. If you reveal a significant secret to another faction please inform us of it so that the rest of us dont sound like fools when talking to them or get caught in a contraditon that may reveal us to be lieing (must keep our lies consistent you know).

Indeed! Drogue, I get the impression you regularly have MSN chats with Hive members such as HongHu or Jamski. Though you are again more active the last few days, you were not the latest month or so. As a consequence we had no clue at all what the Hive possibly learned from you about us during those chats. This can lead to a contradictary foreign policy, when due to your absence others have to fill in for EAF. For example in my communications to other factions I have carefully avoided to reveal that we have HEC and NonlMath. Yet yesterday I reread your chatlog with Jamski where you told him our war plans, and I discovered you already told him back then we had Impact Guns. If I had not pressed you at that time to post that chatlog, none of us except you would have ever known about the Hive knowing about our impact guns. So if you discuss gameplay matters over MSN, could you please post the relevant chatlog here, so the rest of the Consciousness knows what the situation is?

	17-12-2003 04:40									#106
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I sent this PM to HongHu:

quote: Hi HongHu, SotHB is completely useless for us now. It would just mean increasing our research cost. If besides that we would also have to research a second tech Neural Grafting, which in itself seems like sufficient payment for Gene Splicing, such a deal seems rather non-profitable IMHO. May I ask why you ask such a high price for Gene Splicing? Is it because you consider SotHB completely worthless as well, or is it because you attach a very high value to Gene Splicing for some reason? Anyway, I was wondering, would the Hive be willing to accept a deal like follows: MY 2150 or '51: you offer us Gene Splicing pre-accepted, so we can immediately accept it the same turn. MY 2151: we offer you Adaptive Economics back pre-accepted. Due to the turn order, you would get that MY 2152 IIRC. Greetings, Mani Alpha-3 Prime Function of the Cybernetic Consciousness

If everything goes right, we should get AdapEcon from conquering Tripoli in MY 2151, and thus be able to offer it to the Hive. If the Hive would want to trade Gene Splicing for AdapEcon, but only if we trade at the same time, ie without them pre-accepting, what would be your opinion about obtaining AdapEcon instead of EthCalc from PEACE first? As to why we need Gene Splicing so fast: if we have it, we could perhaps select Synthetic Fossil Fuels as our next research target after we obtained EthCalc and thus need to switch research targets.

	17-12-2003 05:25									#107
	Increase the size of your Attachments

I agree completely

	17-12-2003 05:33									#108
	Got spare money?

quote: Originally posted by Maniac I understand your decision. But couldn't you in a similar situation - instead of telling them or lying to them - simply say that you are not authorized to reveal such information, or that you first want to talk to the Collective before possibly giving an answer?

I thought building trust was more important personally. However maybe discretion would have been better While I still do, exact battle plans are a big thing to give. We could ask them why they want them (I have no idea) or we could wait until pacted after the initial strike, and then see PEACE details.

quote: Originally posted by Maniac Regarding winning together with the Hive and Drones, unless the situation has changed in the meantime, the Drones still don't want to win with three factions as it is too easy, and the Hive still doesn't want to betray or to win without the Drones. So until one of those two change opinion, it seems rather impossible to me to get a 3-way-victory. As a consequence we should at the moment think of our own interest first, and only then about the Hive.

I see your point. I still see that as the most likely finish, but I do accept the Drones reluctance. However if they get bored, we may see a different picture coming out.

quote: Originally posted by Impaler[WrG] I was more peved at the fact this information had gotten out without knowing WHO had given it out. If you reveal a significant secret to another faction please inform us of it so that the rest of us dont sound like fools when talking to them or get caught in a contraditon that may reveal us to be lieing (must keep our lies consistent you know).

I agree completely. I have to say it slipped my mind. With Oxford stuff and issues with my girlfriend on my mind, I forgot what I'd said. I am sorry for that.

quote: Originally posted by Impaler[WrG] I agree we realy realy want to avoid a long drawn out game with the all the factions trying to Grind each other up as this would take long time to finish if ever. But I think we should play as if thats a posibility. We want to grow our empire by concquest and expantion untill it rivals the Hive. My personal goal is to achive victory with the Hive and Drones subordinate to us rather then the other way around.

Hmmm, I'd like a co-operative victory personally, as equal partners. Would send a signal that competition was the problem of old earth, with both a socialist economy and a co-operative victory. Would show we can accept peace and co-operate for a better future. A nice symbol, IMHO.

quote: Originally posted by Maniac Indeed! Drogue, I get the impression you regularly have MSN chats with Hive members such as HongHu or Jamski. Though you are again more active the last few days, you were not the latest month or so. As a consequence we had no clue at all what the Hive possibly learned from you about us during those chats.

Actually, I have rare conversations. Indeed, you know about all the ones that have happened. In my absense, I was absent from the game as a whole, not just the forum, and have not spoken to Jamski or HongHu regarding the game.

quote: Originally posted by Maniac So if you discuss gameplay matters over MSN, could you please post the relevant chatlog here, so the rest of the Consciousness knows what the situation is?

That seems sensible. Very rarely is it discussed, so I will reproduce it here if I do from now on. I must apologise again for this debacle

	17-12-2003 12:41									#109
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

Seems like we have to do some comm rerouting in the conciousness mainframe.

* laurentius goes out to buy some optic cable

	17-12-2003 13:36									#110
	Get a bigger avatar today!

One more thing.
If all Hiverians know about our upcoming war, I think we must assume that someone may have hinted the PEACE out too.

	17-12-2003 18:18									#111
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Why? There are few active Hiverians, and they are not friendly with PEACE. Moreover, PEACE haven't acted on it. Personally, I would be very surprised if PEACE know anything.

I don't think they would, since they have been pushing for a Pact with us, and theyhave much ton gain from our war. They know they won't get help against PUT, even if it's just protection of the seas, unless we beat PEACE. They have an interest in us winning the war. I don't think they would jeapodise that for anything that PEACE can offer them.

	17-12-2003 18:43									#112
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The latest from HongHu:

quote: Dear Function Maniac, Yes you are right about SotHB. The Hive does not value it very high. The only reason we proposed it in the trade is because we did not know what other techs you have that can be traded with Gene Splicing. The only tech we know that you have for trade was initiative, which the Hive does not want. However we know that you wanted Gene Splicing, and that you may be able to get SotHB, thus the proposal. Now I'm glad to hear that we have other choices. I will for sure to convey this message back to the Hive. I still haven't heard back from you regarding the other part of the proposal. I do not know what is your long term strategy in terms of other factions. However the Hive has strived to be open toward the CyCons. My feeling is if we could achieve a higher level of trust it will definitely facilitate many transactions between us. For example I have asked about CC's current research but have not got an answer. If I'd known that you have adaptive economics before we would certainly have given it a thorough discussion and perhaps we could reach a trade sooner. Please be assured that I'm not pushing you for anything you are not ready for. I'm simply expressing again the Hive's willingness of furthering our relationship and I'm sure we will work out the best. HongHu

Does anyone know what "the other part of the proposal" is that HongHu is referring to? And when did she ask about our current research? Anyway, I'd propose that we tell them we are currently researching EthCalc, but then immediately ask exactly who owes what techs to who in the Hive-Drone relationship. Should we also propose a pact in MY 2150?

	17-12-2003 21:17									#113
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

Kody says in the VoyForum that PEACE has Gene Splicing. In that case it's a waste to trade the tech with the Hive if we can get it free from PEACE.

	17-12-2003 21:35									#114
	Inflate your Upload Space

I just noticed the latest HIVE offer


Gene splicing for adaptive economics, as you've recently suggested. However, if the hive managed to build the planetary energy grid, we'll be willing to immediately trade you the second tech in exchange for a impact weapon prototype (the 2nd tech payed in advance).

I think a impact infantry is only 2 rows, and the hive will be willing to wait a few years for it. One of the hive players saw the AI already has impact and I'm sure you can trade it from them fairly easily. Anyway the hive needs better than 2-1-1 troops if you're going to use us to keep the university off your back.


Hive also said that PEACE has Gene Splicing, yet another tec we will be taking from them.
Thus we dont want to trade it with UNI anymore.

As we are going to get it anyways, I dont think we should be trading the Hive a tec that will give them a VERY nice Secret Project for a tec we would be able to get soon in any case. We should use our monomoply on Adaptive Economics to full potential and get the PEG as our next SP, we should be firm with the Hive on this, they have a huge industrial Capacity and will goggle up everything if they get a tec advantage over us. The PEG will create a LOT of energy for us and accelerate our building and future war upgrading imensly. If mind-control PEACE crawlers and/or build additional crawlers in the captured bases we can bring these back to our core territory and cash them to get this SP quite quickly.

We should make our next tec goal, SFF or Intilectualy Integrity (Int Int would require getting Loyalty from the Hive though, giving them Progenitor Pych would be an option their).

Also notice that this offer is being proposeed by Kody, HongHu may have been sucessfull in having him re-enter Hive planning. If so the Hive could become a powerhouse once more and we must be more warry that they dont run away with the game.

	18-12-2003 03:37									#115
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True. If we can steal from PEACE, we have no need of trading with the Hive. However we can trade for Env Econ or Eco Eng. Both of those are worthy of Adap Econ IMHO. Or I could politely point out that we want the PEG, and so cannot sign an agreement saying we won't build it.

	18-12-2003 03:41									#116
	Got spare money?

I agree with Impaler we shouldn't trade AdapEcon with the Hive or PUT if we don't need to: if PEACE really has Gene Splicing.

If so, what about the following order to steal techs from PEACE if everything goes according to plan?:
1> MY 2150: Gene Splicing. This gives us the prerequisite for SFF.
2> MY 2151: Ethical Calculus. This finishes our current research. We can now switch to SFF if I correctly understand Minute Mirage's Excel program (screenshot).
3> MY 2152: Adaptive Economics. We can now trade with the Hive.

Oh yeah, PEACE is apparently researching NonlMath. This makes it even more important that we have an fast as possible Blitzkrieg! If possible, we should also try to keep PEACE's energy reserves under 100 credits, so they can't buy NonlMath from the AIs. Similarly we should try to keep PUT as a friend, so they won't buy NonlMath from the AIs in PEACE's place.

	18-12-2003 18:47									#117
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The AI's are very beligerant, I doupt they would sell to anyone else, we arn't even running Democracy and their both Seething at us. Agree we need to keep their Credits low though, no point in taking a chance and it also stops them from stealing our units or Mind Controling bases.

I dont think we should trade Adaptive Economics untill we have the SP in the bag, after that we might just gift the tec to the Hive for reconsiliation. They cant realy complain about that as they never would have had ANY thing without us. I think we can get Eco Eng by prototype trading with them. And I dont belive they have Env Eco yet (likly their next project) so I think its aleast 8 turns before their getting that.

Kody has posted some info on PEACE in the CC/HIVE forum. Points out some flaws in their playing (bad ones too). Their even more incompetent then we suspected. Kody says he is trying to make a map for us, should we tell him we already did that and not to waste his time. If he dose complete this map and give it too us they will likly percive that we are in their dept (and want that dept back in future trades). On the other hand we reveal ourselves to be a bit more cunning then they though we were. I recomend we tell him, I would hate for him to waste all this time on something we have already done. Anyways we will have no more need of Hive information after 2150.

	18-12-2003 21:50									#118
	Kody has mapped the Planet Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

Whial talking with Kody I told him we knew of the Hives was in the North next to the Drones, he asked how and I told him by click in the dark and logical deduction. He responded that he though this was illegal. I responed that Googlie had not made any objections.

He took this to mean that this was legal in the game, BUT he aparently knows of a more advanced tecnique that can give the base name too. He has now used this tecnicque to assemble a list of all the bases on the planet (presumably ours too) and has Posted the Name/Cordinates of all PEACE, UNI, Beliver and Angel base as a "gift" to us on the Hive/CC forum.

I regret having told him about the click in the dark usage, I assumed he was fully aware of it (its Kody after all!) so I didn't feel I was revealing anything vital. But he may now think we are in the Hives Dept. He mentioned the fact that the Hive has given many "gifts" to the Cycon and have not recived anything in return (even a promise). He also sounded very suspicius of us even saying at one point "were not shure your working with another faction" so beware Kody mistrusts us and may be a Paranoid mad man.

But we now have another issue. Should we tell the Hive, "we already knew that, and had a map weeks ago" or "oh good gosh Kody! Thanks so much!". Both options are risky. If we reveal we alraedy knew PEACE bases then we show ourselves to be more clever and resorcefull then I think Kody predicts, and we show that we concealed this fact, he may also think we are lieing to get out of our Dept to them (very likly considering his distrust). On the other hand accepting the information will create the perception that we are infact greatly indepted to the Hive and they may feel they deserve some of the spoils of our War.

I have posted a response saying that "I dont know if THAT tecnique is legal, it should have been confirmed with Googlie. I have made no comment conserning "thanks" for the data or hinting that we already knew it. Again let me say I am sorry for even getting him started on this whole line of inquiry as Kody has a mind like a steel trap. I will also send Googlie a PM about the issue. If Googlie says the tecnique is illegal then we may be let off the hook.

	18-12-2003 22:37									#119
	Browse Apolyton AD-FREE

I would tell them we already have a PEACE map and all base coordinates, but then say, if they are interested, that we could compare maps to check if their data matches with ours. That way it sounds like we're doing them a favour instead of the other way around.

Anyway, weird how he got all those base coordinates AND their names. This, together by his questional ability to effect B-drones, strengthens my intention never to play a PBEM game with Kody in it.

Edit:

From HongHu in the Voyforum, an official proposal:

quote: 1) Gene Splicing trade for Adaptive Economics 2) Eco Eng trade for design of an impact marine and a cruiser, the units will be returned only the design will be retained. 3) CC gives Hive list of techs that it obtained and is obtaining 4) Hive gives CC PEACE infiltration data 5) Hive open to any other trade / coorperation proposals by CC

1) If PEACE has Gene Splicing, we'd better ask EcoEng in return. Or not trade it at all if along with Impaler a majority of cyborgs is in favour of going for the PEG. We'd have to poll such a decision.

2) Such a deal would be relatively uneven IMHO. We will get one tech - EcoEng - the normal way. By lending them those two units they will practically speaking obtain two techs: NonlMath and Doc:Ini. Other benefit for the Hive is that their tech costs will be two techs lower than it should be. And they won't have to miss part of their army for quite a few turns.

3) IMHO we should in return ask for clarity on their tech trading relation with the Drones. Will we propose a pact to the Hive btw in our turn MY 2150? Then this point will become meaningless as we'll have access to each other's F2 screen anyway.

4) This point has become meaningless as well in the meanwhile.

	19-12-2003 08:03									#120
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Have PMed HongHu, telling her of plans, and my opinion on events after, as well as about tech trades:

quote: Greetings Ambassador HongHu, I am sorry for the delay in this information. CyCon burocracy and debate about the war has stopped me telling you this sooner, but I am finally authorised to give you this information You have asked about our plans re PEACE: We are to attack earlier than expected, as we have brought it forward two years to 2150. We will hit Alexandria first, closely followed by Tripoli. This is to stop them probing Non Math from us, as they are building/have built probes in those bases. We expect to have both bases by the end of 2151, IIRC. I have no idea where from there, how far the war goes depends on if PEACE want peace after we take their techs and a couple of bases. We intend to destroy them eventually, but if they offer a good deal, we may let them live a little longer We have a tech advantage re PEACE at the moment, so I don't see winning as a problem. We shouldn't have much difficultly IMHO. Therefore matters turn to what to do once PEACE has been neutralised. Overall, we wish to help you against PUT, in a joint attack, once we are both ready. We would like a few years of peace, if possible, between the two wars, to build up infrastructure again, but our overall plan is to join you against PEACE after that, if you wish to pursue that. Or we could take out the AIs. Either way, the faction is strongly for a victory, co-operative with the Hive, and if necessary, the Drones. However the big problem for that is that you said before that the Drones were not big on that idea. May I inquire as to what they feel, with regards to a 3 way victory? And if they are not for it, where does the Hive stand? Another piece of good news is that I look like being the next Prime Function With that I can assure you of a pro-Hive policy, regarding foreign affairs. I am very strongly for a co-operative victory. I intend to carry out the ideas we have talked about with Jamski a while ago, as far as possible. I hope this helps ease your trust of us. I can understand your problems, with us seemingly unwilling to give you tech details or sign a pact. However we have now sorted out our war fears, which has been the only source of these hesitations. And thus I can offer a strong pact in 2150, the year we attack PEACE. We can then discuss what to do with regards to getting a perma-pact, and a co-operative victory, depending on the Drones position. The CyCon is strongly for a co-op victory with the Hive, however we can do it As for tech trades, we are aiming for Fusion Power, as a long-term goal. Other than that we are looking at any trades for techs that we can't steal from PEACE. Adapt Econ is up for trade, but at the moment, we would not be able to agree not to build the PEG, since we have had plans for that for quite a while. We are hoping to take advantage of the rich sea energy to help us out-tech PUT, and we need all the help we can get for that. We are of course willing to trade techs, whether for other techs, ec, or units, with the Hive. However IIRC we have designs on the PEG, and so would not be able to agree not to build it. If there is anything more you wish to know, please do not hesitate to contact myself. Yours, - Drogue, External Affairs Function of the Cybernetic Conciousness

We have also found out that the Hive has not infiltrated PUT, and that PEACE are not in a position to mount a counter-attack. They have crawlers in bases, and are researching Non Math, as we will find out next turn, when we Pact with Hive. This is subject to a poll (which I am about to post) but has been agreed by Impaler and Maniac so far, so will almost certainly get a majority.

Any comments? HongHu knows the last bit, about the future, is my personal opinion, and is not binding. If the war changes things, we will change this, as I have said to her before. We can't plan anything in depth for after the war, but overall proposals are good to discuss.