26-01-2004 13:03									#211
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Humm lets say I can Tolerate that deal, but I still think it benifits the Hive a lot.

Lets ask Uni for a counter offer, or perhaps get Evn Econ for Adaptive Econ for full restricion lifting. With our low level of Crawlers Eco Eng is only moderatly valuable (we should begin to make more crawlers ofcorse). Our upcoming switch to FM will make engery restricion lifting most important.

Remember that Hive must agree to non-proliferation and we cant trade it to them for a few more turns just to make shure they cant steal the project.

If they were given Env Econ by the Drones then we should counter offer Adaptive Econ <> Env Econ as thats a fairier trade in my opinion because we are alowing them to skip Pro Pych thus that the equivilent of 2 tecs we are giving them vs 1 for us.

	26-01-2004 15:40									#212
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Maniac: Have sent a PM. I'm not sure, sicne if we take out PEACE, they need to research a lot to get it. It would annoy them intensely, but they would lose out. However we need restriction lifting techs, and we need boreholes (and more formers!)

Impaler: They won't agree to that. Without the PEG, it's a lot less valuble. However they will get Env Econ from the Drones.

	27-01-2004 01:01									#213
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Is this tech exchange before or after we finish the PEG?

If they agree not to build it before we're finished, there is not such a need to force build it. It saves some crawlers and/or energy

	27-01-2004 02:13									#214
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It's without PEG, although I'd go for quick build still. Unless we want to slow build it and go for the CBA, before the Hive get it?

	27-01-2004 04:59									#215
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quote: Originally posted by Drogue It's without PEG, although I'd go for quick build still. Unless we want to slow build it and go for the CBA, before the Hive get it?

No, the PEG we need most now, CBA comes later. But I didn't want to imply just build it long and slowly, only not to build it in one turn then. But I guess it's still the best to build it directly in case the Hive is about to break diplomacy just like that.

	27-01-2004 21:10									#216
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ok then lets send the unaccepted offer of Adaptive Econ, they will counter offer and we accept in the same year we get the project so they cant steal.

	27-01-2004 21:32									#217
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Not yet, PUT have said they will trade Eco Eng and Env Econ, meaning no need to trade with the Hive. Or we can get something else for it

	28-01-2004 05:43									#218
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I send this:

Hi Chairman Voltaire and Ambassadors HongHu and Jamski,

(I don't know anymore who is supposed to be the official contact person, so I'll just send it to all three of you )

I've just heard the recent news that Enigma_Nova has been expelled from the Hive. Can I ask why or is it a purely internal matter?
Also, recently Enigma_Nova offered to buy Adaptive Economics from us with as clause that we could keep the Planetary Energy Grid. I am wondering, is his proposal still supported by the current Hive leadership? Due to a beeline of our own that could be interrupted, we can't trade yet this year, but from next year on it should be possible to trade for AdapEcon.

Friendly greetings,

Maniac

---

Jamski's reply already in:

quote: Part of the trouble leading to his expulsion is him offering you this deal, without informing anyone till afterwards. We actually haven't discussed it yet. Please can you hold for an official response.

Last edited by Maniac on 28-01-2004 at 05:53

	29-01-2004 02:28									#219
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Well, sounds as the majority in the Hive didn't know anything anymore. Or that only now the Hive members are taking a real look at the game. Might mean trouble in the future.

	29-01-2004 17:03									#220
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Hive has gone All stockpiling Energy and returned their bases to Mass Librarians.

This is all quite odd, atfirst the theory on the tec pause was that the Drones were going to give them EvnEcon but this did not happen and they will now reserch it for themselves next turn (unless perhaps the Drones send it preaccepted this turn).

The reason for their huge Credit Production is still a mystery as they dont seem to be in a position to get the PEG anymore.

That inteligence department would be helpfull for figuring these things out, the Hive is a mystery in a Puzzle wrapped in Enigma_Nova's Ego!

	31-01-2004 04:46									#221
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quote: Greetings Ambassadors Jamski and HongHu, I have a question for the Hive. If former PEACE members asked to join the Hive after their faction is destroyed, would you accept them in your faction? I hope to hear from you soon! Mani Alpha-3 External Affairs Function of the Cybernetic Consciousness

From Jamski:

quote: We would discuss it on a person by person basis. What did you have in mind? BTW, it would be nice if you left the PEACE 1 base. -Jam

Why would he want us to leave PEACE one base? So PEACE can give them AdapEcon?

	31-01-2004 04:52									#222
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quote: Originally posted by Maniac From Jamski: Why would he want us to leave PEACE one base? So PEACE can give them AdapEcon?

I think negotitations aren't going fast between them...
They're trying to stall things.

It also sounds as the PEACE members are not interested at all for joining us.

My recommendation: keep up the pressure on PEACE, perhaps splitting the task groups (Impaler's idea) isn't so bad after all. It will take perhaps more turns to take individual bases, but troops will be in position for final strike sooner.

	31-01-2004 06:43									#223
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Btw, something else: I just noticed Kody back on the Hive member list. And he has posted in the private forum, so I noticed on the general forum list.

	31-01-2004 07:10									#224
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quote: Originally posted by Maniac Btw, something else: I just noticed Kody back on the Hive member list. And he has posted in the private forum, so I noticed on the general forum list.

And is that good or bad news?

I suppose he couldn't (re)join another faction.
Or perhaps with Enigma gone, he was willing to come back?

	31-01-2004 17:44									#225
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The End Game is coming...

	31-01-2004 23:03									#226
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quote: Originally posted by Maniac Btw, something else: I just noticed Kody back on the Hive member list. And he has posted in the private forum, so I noticed on the general forum list.

WHAT?
He might have access or had aaccess to classified information - how can this be? He was removed from ACDG - how can he join the Hive again?

	01-02-2004 03:28									#227
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He cannot.

	03-02-2004 03:55									#228
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Hi Ambassador Jamski,

As we have officially announced, the Consciousness and PUT have unified and merged into one faction. As Archaic has no time anymore to be involved in the ACDG, this effectively means the Consciousness will play with PUT as well. This also means that if a personal vendetta against Archaic was a reason in the past to attack PUT, this in no longer the case.

We have noticed this year that besides stealing Environmental Economics a while back, Foreman buster of the Drones has attacked a PUT base and stolen Secrets of the Human Brain and Neural Grafting. If buster doesn't stop immediately with his offensive actions, we will sadly be forced to throw all the combined CPU resources into a war against him. In this hopefully avoidable scenario of a full-scale war, we were wondering about the Hive reaction. In the past, HongHu has said to Drogue that the Hive would remain neutral in a Drone-Consciousness war. Is that still the case? Would you remain neutral, or choose sides in favour of one party?

A few other points: I as PUT turnplayer have offered a pre-accepted pact to the Hive btw. Hopefully you will accept it for the many benefits it gives to both of us. And as our labs production has about quadrupled, we are now able to research techs relatively fast, making us a better trading partner than before. Therefore I ask: are you again interested in tech trading?

I hope to hear from you soon!

Mani Alpha-3
Prime Function of the Cybernetic Consciousness
Fatherboard of the Central Processing Unit

	03-02-2004 06:25									#229
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Looks good

	03-02-2004 07:20									#230
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Looks indeed good. But, I thought that diplomacy was your cup of tea now, Drogue?

Aren't you EAF now?

	03-02-2004 07:29									#231
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I am. I should be back properly now, so I can do the diplomacy and military orders. However Maniac is free to send that if he wishes. Some important communiques come best from the Prime Function directly, IMHO.

	03-02-2004 07:43									#232
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Off course, I have no objections at all. No need to strictly separate the different Functions.

	04-02-2004 02:58									#233
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quote: ***COMPLETELY OFF THE RECORD*** If you attack the Drones we will definitely help you. Then we can get our revenge. Don't even ask -Jam

An "unofficial" message of Jamski. Last time he told me something "unofficial and confidential" he urged me to send an ultimatum to the Hive, and that story didn't end really well. So I wish it were true, but I'm quite reluctant to believe what he's telling here. I get the feeling, which is supported by his recent hostile behaviour in the 3D and Pravda threads, that he supports a CC-Hive war, instead of supposedly having the best interest of a Hive-CC relationship in mind...

Anyway, what should I reply? Asking if there currently is discussion on our message within the Hive, and when we can expect an answer? I could also tell "off the record" that I hope for some positive signs of cooperation of the Hive soon, as as a consequence of the recent anti-CC Hive actions, some cyborgs are arguing for taking anti-Hive actions, and I don't want that group of cyborgs to grow in influence. Or too risky to send that?

Another option is to send a message to Voltaire and ask if it's true what Jamski is saying. Then if he is lying to us (again), he can be finally unmasked.

	04-02-2004 04:08									#234
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Jamski is the ambassador, so it is an offical, but off the record, PM. IMHO, don't tell Voltaire. However check something: have the Drones built any SPs recently? Before Enigma left, we discussed the Hive/Drones relationship, and specifically his comment to buster, because buster was trying to steal all the good SPs. If he's succeeded, then that could be a revenge worthy move. Or for the governorship?

Either way, take it with a pinch of salt, but don't discount it, IMHO.

	04-02-2004 04:12									#235
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The Drones are not building any SPs.

If not mention it to Voltaire, what should I send back to Jamski?

	04-02-2004 05:01									#236
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quote: Originally posted by Maniac The Drones are not building any SPs. If not mention it to Voltaire, what should I send back to Jamski?

You can always ask how much support there is among Hive members for this 'revenge' thing. And if a positive answer, let's continue to ask if an official statement of the 'chairman' can be made, iow a PM from Voltaire.

	04-02-2004 14:29									#237
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Jamski is definetly lying. Or perhaps he is pretending hostility to misguide Drones. But I doubt it. They want us in war against Drones - they won`t probably even intervene in it - they will just laugh and grow stronger.

	04-02-2004 23:25									#238
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At the current speed of official Hive reactions we would have died of old age before getting any answer. So I decided to go a little further with Jamski. My previous PM to him is at the bottom. First his reply:

Let me just say that we were discussing the possibility of a perma-pact with the CyCon.

However, now the debate is getting a bit crazy. Some people are pro-CyUni, but others say we should pact with the Drones and Peace and come and whip your arse. Major hive split.... BUT the chairman is in favour of doing nothing and just staying neutral.

Doc:Int was a trade with the Drones, who got it by giving NonLinMath to the PEACE, I think. I'm not sure.

Its possible the Drones and PEACE are permapacted. I don't know.

Keep safe.

-Jam

quote: Hi Jamski, quote: ***COMPLETELY OFF THE RECORD*** If you attack the Drones we will definitely help you. Then we can get our revenge. Don't even ask How much support is there for revenge within the Hive? quote: That wasn't an official message of any sort. Just a comment. Yeah, but there are quite a few of such negative Hivean comments. ***OFF THE RECORD*** Jamski, do you think it would be possible to get an official answer on my message within the next 24 hours? The longer the Hive waits, the more cyborgs become convinced of a Hive-Drone permapact. And last month you told me the Hive would help PEACE. Could I please ask to what degree the Hive and PEACE are currently cooperating and trading? How did you get Doc:Ini? And how did PEACE get NonlMath? I can assure you it's crucial for the Hive-CC relationship we know the honest truth about this soon. Greetings, Maniac

---

Jamski is just talking major bullshit: the Drones don't even have Doc:Ini & NonlMath. Drogue, if you don't even believe now Jamski (and probably the Hive) is just trying to fool us for as long as possible, I don't know what it will take. A planet buster on Apolyton Prime?
I'll forward Jamski's PMs to Voltaire and HongHu and ask for a reaction in the next few hours, before we have to send our turn to PEACE. If nothing happens, I'll send the messages to PEACE and the Drones that are currently in the dip exchanges thread.

	05-02-2004 01:20									#239
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I second that. We definitely need some word out. For the very least the other factions now then that we don't want an all out fight.

	05-02-2004 01:20									#240
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HongHu speaking:

Dear Function Maniac,

Thanks for your messages. First I want to assure you that your official message has been received by the Hive timely. Since I am not the CC ambassador any more, I have tried to refrain from communicating with the CCs. However, comrade Jamski has been constantly informing us the communications between you. I am not aware of the last PM he sent but that may just be because he didn't have time to do it yet.

As for whether what he said is the truth, I would like to comment that some of his statements may be his own beliefs and conjectures. For example, the Hive does not have the knowlege of tech trade and relationship between Drones and PEACE. (I personally do not think that peace and Drones are perm pacted.) What I can assure you is that your proposal has received great attentions from the Hivers and we are experiencing great participations again from the team members. An official response to you was already formulated but it will have to wait until it at least gets the clearance from the Chairman. At the current stage I do not believe we will be able to give you a definitely yes or no before we see the next turn because people wants to assess the situation carefully.

Comrade HongHu

---

So what should I respond? Something like this:
Hi HongHu,

Thanks for your swift response. I hope to hear the official Hive response soon. Btw, you say that for example Jamski assuming a PEACE-Drone permapact is his personal belief, but is it true what Jamski says about Doc:Ini? Did you trade that with the Drones, and are you not cooperating with PEACE?

Greetings,

Maniac

Last edited by Maniac on 05-02-2004 at 02:43