05-02-2004 01:35									#241
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quote: Originally posted by Maniac So what should I respond? Something like this: Hi HongHu, Thanks for your swift response yadde yadde Hope to hear officially from you soon some more blah, and then Is it true what Jamski says about Doc:Ini? Did you trade that with the Drones, and are you not cooperating in any way with PEACE? Greetings, Maniac

That was quick indeed, 59 seconds after my approval.

And about your response proposal:

DEFINITELY NOT!!! Do you want HongHu think that we have a nerve-stapled ambassador !!

Anyway, when the 'yadde' and 'blah' are smooth out, you can try that response, but I think we won't hear more from her then 'hear from us AFTER the CyCon turn'.

	05-02-2004 01:44									#242
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You know the Drones must have a lot of trust in the Hive to send them the most powerfull military tecnology in the game. If we see on our next turn that the Hive respircated and sent the Drones MMI and the Drones have taken the CBF then we will know who the Hive has sided with.

Inwhich case I think we should begin making plans for a military strike agains them and I have cooked up just such a plan.

Basicaly we should position one or more of our amphibius forces in Atlantis and then sail switfly north and hook around the Hives land mass in 3-4 turns. We then assault the Coastal city their capture it and then use Rovers to move inland and capture Voltograd on that same turn. We then Obliterate the Base destroying the Human Genome Project, the Cloud Base Acadamy and the Planetary Transit System. This will effectivly cripple the Hive and send all their bases into Drone Riots.

Its a incredibly risky plan ofcorse and if the Hive builds its military up much in the near future we likly couldnt even try it. But if the need arises it might just be bold enough to work.

	05-02-2004 01:52									#243
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quote: Originally posted by GeoModder That was quick indeed, 59 seconds after my approval.

We only have a few hours left, so I decided to send it anyway after no one had responded some 45 minutes after my post.

And about your response proposal:

quote: DEFINITELY NOT!!! Do you want HongHu think that we have a nerve-stapled ambassador !!

Did you think I would send the message with the yadde and blah in it?

***
Impaler, do you have a Hive map to make it somewhat more visible?

	05-02-2004 02:42									#244
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Hi HongHu,

Thanks for your swift response. I hope to hear the official Hive response soon. Btw, you say that for example Jamski assuming a PEACE-Drone permapact is his personal belief, but is it true what Jamski says about Doc:Ini? Did you trade that with the Drones, and are you not cooperating with PEACE?

Greetings,

Maniac

	05-02-2004 03:19									#245
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quote: Sigh. You got me. (Why do you have to be this sharp everytime?) I was trying not to accuse Jamski of lying. No we didn't trade that off Drones. But we didnt' trade that with the PEACE either. There are many ways we can obtain a tech. In fact there is a possibility that we didn't even want that tech. (But you may already know that. Plus I have probably already told you too much again. ) Jamski has not opened the game for many turns now. Some times I fear that he doesn't know what he is talking. Hong

How about this response:

Hi HongHu,

Hmm, I'll have to think about other ways to acquire Doc:Ini. I guess you could have obtained it from the Angels as well.

quote: Jamski has not opened the game for many turns now. Some times I fear that he doesn't know what he is talking.

Err, an informal question, is it wise to have Jamski as ambassador then?
Btw, if you aren't trading with PEACE, why is the Hive no longer interested in AdapEcon? We could trade that in exchange for techs you have such as DAP and MMI which we'll get soon anyway.

Greetings,

Maniac

	05-02-2004 04:00									#246
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quote: The main reason is that I have been unsuccessfully trying to fade away from ACDG since I am very time pressed. You may have noticed that I had to cancel one of my favorite Pbem (gufnork rumble) also. I will have to look at the tech trade again. IIRC we didn't want to trade with you because of the no PEG condition. But things may have changed. I have not had time to look at all the other things such as infiltration and tradings and such other than finishing the turn last turn. There are always so much non game related issues at the Hive. But anyway I'll take a look and let you know.

And recently received:

quote: Dear Functions of the CyCons, Your messages have been warmly welcomed in the Hive. The Hive has always considered the CCs to be their best friends in this planet. Although the PUT has been long regarded as our potential enemy, the CC-PUT alliance has opened an entirely new door to the future structure of the world. The implications of this event and your proposals regarding the Hive pacting with uni and further cooperations between us have been heatedly discussed inside the Hive. Although we cannot give you any promise at this time before we are able to take a look at the situations when the turn comes to our hands, we would like to assure you that the Hive has maintained its prior promise to you, that it is staying neutral in the CC-PEACE war. It should be easy for the functions to see that the Hive has not given NonlMath to the PEACE because the Hive does not possess that technology itself. Chairman Voltaire Ambassador Jamski Comrade HongHu

	10-02-2004 01:04									#247
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Could someone please inquire if renouncing the pact is the so called "mistake" and will they correct it? Or are they trying to hide sth from us by denying infiltration?

	10-02-2004 01:26									#248
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quote: Originally posted by obstructor Could someone please inquire if renouncing the pact is the so called "mistake" and will they correct it? Or are they trying to hide sth from us by denying infiltration?

Let them, our general plans for this turn were obvious anyway. They (Hive/Drones) will expect a military build-up now.

	10-02-2004 04:38									#249
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Some more diplomatic blah from HongHu. Personally I don't believe a word of it. Should I bother replying anything?

quote: Treaty with CyCons Dear Functions: It is a hard chore for me to do here today to bring you the news that the Hive is lowering the pact between us to a nonaggressive treaty. The Hive has obtained information that the CC-PEACE war has been gradually approaching the Hive land. This plus the size of your military force, the fact that your have formed a permanent ally with the Hive's potential enemy PUT and become the most powerful force in the planet, and that you will get DAP the next turn, has inspired great uneasiness inside the Human Hive. The public opinion is very much diversified inside the Hive. Some people believe that as a consequence of the Hive being a peaceful builder we are vulnerable to any aggressiveness. Others believe that the Hive will benefit greatly from an alliance with the most powerful faction in the planet. Yet others still holds the belief that the Hive and CCs are made for each other. Discussions are wild and situations are in chaos, which resulted in premature orders being sent out. As the turn player I would like to repeat the Hive's promise to the CCs that we do not intend to become your enemy as long as you do not turn hostile against us. I'm sure we would be able to renew our pact soon when the people in the Hive is convinced that you do not have any intention of aggressiveness against us. Comrade HongHu

	10-02-2004 05:45									#250
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I believe it. They have a point, and in their situation, I'd do the same thing. We know HongHu has gone out of her way, even hurting her faction, to be honest. I suspect the Hive of plotting against us, as I would in their situation. I do not suspect HongHu of lying to us.

	10-02-2004 22:28									#251
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They don't have a point IMO.

quote: This plus the size of your military force

Currently some impact marines and cruisers. If that's an argument, the Drones with DAP and MMI are a much greater treat to them. Why don't they break that pact?

quote: the fact that your have formed a permanent ally with the Hive's potential enemy PUT

We haven't formed a permanent alliance. We have unified and are basically one faction, as the Hive perfectly knows: "from an alliance with the most powerful faction in the planet". So PUT is only a potential enemy of the Hive if the Hive considers PUT and CC an enemy.

quote: and that you will get DAP the next turn

Again, Drones too, plus MMI. And they are much closer to them.

And in general, the best way to ensure we do not turn hostile against them, is to stay pacted and friendly, not to reduce to treaty. That way they get a clear advance warning of our intentions when we break the pact. Now we can attack them whenever we want.
So unless a majority of Hiveans have limited diplomatic skills, IMO the reason the Hive broke the pact is so that we no longer have infiltration information on them, and thus they can start a military build-up to conquer us, without us noticing.

	10-02-2004 22:36									#252
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quote: Originally posted by Maniac Currently some impact marines and cruisers. If that's an argument, the Drones with DAP and MMI are a much greater treat to them. Why don't they break that pact?

We have a bigger standing army. They could see a Drones build up, but we have already built up.

quote: Originally posted by Maniac We haven't formed a permanent alliance. We have unified and are basically one faction, as the Hive perfectly knows: "from an alliance with the most powerful faction in the planet". So PUT is only a potential enemy of the Hive if the Hive considers PUT and CC an enemy.

Exactly, they saw PUT as an enemy, and now see us partly as that since we are one.

quote: Originally posted by Maniac Again, Drones too, plus MMI. And they are much closer to them.

Yes, but Drones are very friendly with them. We have signed a unification with a faction they don't like, without forewarning. They trust the Drones, they don't trust us anymore.

quote: Originally posted by Maniac So unless a majority of Hiveans have limited diplomatic skills, IMO the reason the Hive broke the pact is so that we no longer have infiltration information on them, and thus they can start a military build-up to conquer us, without us noticing.

Or because they don't want us to see where they have no defenders, in case we want to attack, since we have a standing army that is quite close to them. Also because they probably want to trade with PEACE without us knowing.

They don't trust us, and feel spurned, because we signed a unification with a faction they didn't like. I can see why they'd feel like that. Now, if they want to be like that, we could attack them. They have little standing army, and we could easily do some damage to them, maybe take a base or two, even an SP,and slow them down. I don't think they're necessarily planning to invade us, but they may do. Just like we're not necessarily planning to invade them, but we may do.

	11-02-2004 00:11									#253
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So IOW, infiltrate them to have mutual info? They still have info on us by their pact with the Drones.

Besides, since we have infiltration with the pirates, we know when they receive new tech. And we can compare those with the 'slip' message from Buster.

	13-02-2004 23:42									#254
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I am suspicius of the Hive, we saw that they started construction of a Gun Copter inorder to Protoype the chassie, thats a normal and Prudent thing to do at this point.

I think we want to send our Probe Foils at them ASAP to infiltrate. Their nearest base is New Moscow but its got strong probe defences. We could move further north along the coast to say Jamski's Prison Cell to try for a less defended target or we could use out Impact Marines to clear the base out for us before infiltrating.

This would initiate a war though witch we should perhaps avoid untill we have more information on the Drones.

If the Hive begins an all out Defensive buildup at this point they can easily become a fortress before our forces come close to them (and we cant even do that as we must finish off PEACE first).

I hope an all out 2 on 2 war can be avoided but if it becomes nessary we should rely heavily on our Probes to keep ourselves even tecnologicaly and use our navy and Airforce to blunt their offensives as we build up internaly to rival them. Then switch to heavy reserch and go on the offensive with superior tec.

	13-02-2004 23:53									#255
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quote: Originally posted by Impaler[WrG] I think we want to send our Probe Foils at them ASAP to infiltrate. Their nearest base is New Moscow but its got strong probe defences. We could move further north along the coast to say Jamski's Prison Cell to try for a less defended target or we could use out Impact Marines to clear the base out for us before infiltrating.

I currently don't have a sav where we still have Hive info, but on what you say it looks like infiltration will be a costly affair, but I'm against using marines to infiltrate successfully. Infiltration on itself will probably not start a war, but an attack... Do I understand it well you have prepared a map of the northern territories?

quote: Originally posted by Impaler[WrG] I hope an all out 2 on 2 war can be avoided but if it becomes nessary we should rely heavily on our Probes to keep ourselves even tecnologicaly and use our navy and Airforce to blunt their offensives as we build up internaly to rival them. Then switch to heavy reserch and go on the offensive with superior tec.

Don't forget to ensure WE have sufficient probe defenses. What we do can give them ideas...
Perhaps we should start a screening plan for the seas south of Hive/Drone territories once we have Deep Radar ability.

	14-02-2004 00:14									#256
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quote: Originally posted by Impaler[WrG] I think we want to send our Probe Foils at them ASAP to infiltrate. Their nearest base is New Moscow but its got strong probe defences. We could move further north along the coast to say Jamski's Prison Cell to try for a less defended target or we could use out Impact Marines to clear the base out for us before infiltrating.

I agree with GeoModder attacking with marines is a bit extreme, unless absolutely necessary.
Btw, what about waiting until we have built two probe teams in Triplex, and built a transport in Athena Anchorage? Then first move the new transport with the two probe defences and the two new probe teams to that northern Angel sea base, infiltrate with the probe defences, and next turn move to New Moscow, together with the probe foil. We'll then have three units able to infiltrate, so if the Hive probe defences are only one unit and if they don't have air units patrolling and shooting down any unit in sight, we should be able to infiltrate.

	14-02-2004 00:33									#257
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quote: Originally posted by Maniac Btw, what about waiting until we have built two probe teams in Triplex, and built a transport in Athena Anchorage? Then first move the new transport with the two probe defences and the two new probe teams to that northern Angel sea base, infiltrate with the probe defences, and next turn move to New Moscow, together with the probe foil. We'll then have three units able to infiltrate, so if the Hive probe defences are only one unit and if they don't have air units patrolling and shooting down any unit in sight, we should be able to infiltrate.

Mmm, I suppose a transport won't be a legitimate target for destroying, even if it is spotted. Probes in it won't be visible I guess. If this line of action is followed I propose to split the probe foil and the transport. More chance that one of them comes through unspotted.

	14-02-2004 03:23									#258
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Does anyone know how active Sheep is inside the Hive? It might explain some of their animosity towards the PUT.

I find it odd that they've made a Gun Copter though. There's better models that can be made for the same price, even with only fission, assuming everything's prototyped. Perhaps their prototyping is lagging?

	14-02-2004 03:54									#259
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quote: Originally posted by Archaic Does anyone know how active Sheep is inside the Hive? It might explain some of their animosity towards the PUT.

Why? Has this Hive member has anything against PUT members? I would find it odd that 1 member can cause much animosity against another faction.

quote: Originally posted by Archaic I find it odd that they've made a Gun Copter though. There's better models that can be made for the same price, even with only fission, assuming everything's prototyped. Perhaps their prototyping is lagging?

Can be checked. But you're right, even a laser chopper would be better. I don't know out of my head if they have impactor, but if not, it's explains it more or less. Their last tech exchanges with Drones must have given them Synt Fossil Fuels, so a missile chopper would be too expensive (prototyping missile launcher and chopper at the same time).

	14-02-2004 15:32									#260
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Trust me. If we're talking about Sheep, who had a very long history regarding both myself and GT in Nationstates and (for GT) various NES's, he could easily have that sort of influence, especially when many of those Hivers didn't exactly like me to begin with.

Better check it then. If they really haven't got Laser already prototyped, then perhaps we should try and figure out what else they don't have prototypes of. It's hard to believe they'd be lax in that department, but if they have been.....well then, they'd be ripe pickings, even if they do share pretty much a direct border with the Drones.

	14-02-2004 15:43									#261
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Well, before we get there with anything, they will have missile units.

	14-02-2004 19:53									#262
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In MY 2152 the Drones transferred control over a plasma garrison to the Hive thereby breaking the HEC non-proliferation treaty we had signed with the Drones. So they certainly have plasma armour prototyped. They also have a few foils with laser weapon and synthmetal armour IIRC, to defend against the Angels. Last turn they started on a chopper and cruiser prototype. So the only weapons we aren't sure whether they have prototyped is are impact gun (they don't have the tech yet) and missile launcher.

As for Sheep, personally I don't think he's active in the Hive at all. At least I've never seen on the general forum list his name as "Last Post". Probably, just like other communist/Hive fans such as Ali Cov or chegitz, he just joined the Hive for the civicon or being around likeminded people or so, posted a few times and then never came back.
However IIRC the Hive already decided right from the start of the game that PUT would be their enemy, because of the heated discussions in the first ACDG. One would think that the emotions of a year back would have calmed down by now, but apparently not so for some Hiveans.


GM:

quote: If this line of action is followed I propose to split the probe foil and the transport.

	16-02-2004 02:02									#263
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quote: Originally posted by Maniac Some more diplomatic blah from HongHu. Personally I don't believe a word of it. Should I bother replying anything?

Any communications with the Hive so far?

If not, I would propose making a statement that we want to stay equal in important military tech (D:AP, MMI) and that there is no reason for them to fear us military (pointing out that by the time we could reach them their air attack/defense will be ready anyway).

Also, indicating that they are the ones breaking a pact so seem not trustworthy to us anymore.

And as the finishing touch some blablah about how we like a continuous 'good neighbour' relation with the Mighty Hive.

All the above is just to keem them diplomatically in check. Personally I don't think we should start a war at all, perhaps instead of infiltrating them, infiltrating the Drones.

	16-02-2004 02:06									#264
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Ok with such a message.

quote: Personally I don't think we should start a war at all, perhaps instead of infiltrating them, infiltrating the Drones.

It's much easier and closer to infiltrate the Hive though. And infiltration isn't war (though they of course may think otherwise).

	16-02-2004 02:37									#265
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quote: Originally posted by Maniac Ok with such a message.

And will I find out the tone of Drogue's diplomatic language now?

quote: Originally posted by Maniac It's much easier and closer to infiltrate the Hive though.

That's true

quote: Originally posted by Maniac And infiltration isn't war (though they of course may think otherwise).

GeoModder looks a bit

	16-02-2004 02:42									#266
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Yeah.....I'm pretty sure no faction would be too happy about being infiltrated The Hive possibly least of all.

	16-02-2004 03:16									#267
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If we succeed and they protest, I'd just say the Drones (and thus they) have unwanted infiltration on us ; we're just equaling our knowledge about each other. If they didn't break pact, we wouldn't have to infiltrate them in the first place.

Edit: Also, if they have nothing to hide, they shouldn't fear infiltration. Personally I expect to see a military build-up though.

Last edited by Maniac on 16-02-2004 at 03:21

	16-02-2004 04:35									#268
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Or we see (surprise, surprise) that a whole lot of SP is being slow builded.

	17-02-2004 21:43									#269
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I'm in *bump* mode today. Does the EAF care to comment on this?

	26-02-2004 00:10									#270
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IMPORTANT NEWS !!!

The probe skimship moving west on its mission to infiltrate the Angels discovered a Hiveans 1-3-6 cutter. As the ship was discovered on the probe's last movement point, there's no opportunity to flee away. If the Hive is in an aggressive mood, who knows the Great War could start already. But we should of course attempt to prevent it if possible.

How about sending the following PM to HongHu, Jamski and Voltaire? We should only send it after PEACE and Drones have played their turn, so that:
1> the Hive can't alert PEACE of our presence, and let PEACE send a ship to attack the probe.
2> the Drones won't switch to full war production this year.

quote: Hello again most honoured Hiveans, This turn a CPU probe skimship has spotted a Hivean cutter entering the Atlantic Ocean. The probe skimship is now floating on the square South East of the Hivean cutter, and has contacted the cutter's captain to transfer the greetings of the Consciousness. We would like to inform you that the mission of that probe skimship is to infiltrate the Data Angel datalinks, and thus that we have no intention to sail into Hivean seas. Now we will more or less become neighbours this year after our army and fleet assimilates Atlantis, we hope the Hive will respect our borders as well. Friendly greetings, Mani Alpha-3 Prime Function of the Cybernetic Consciousness Member of the Central Processing Unit