18-03-2004 08:54									#391
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Got it. Thanks.

	18-03-2004 10:40									#392
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Well I've told Maniac about it I think. Thank god I was able to hold this long. Hopefully this has not spoiled anybody's fun. I was kind of feeling bad for their bad feelings.

Last edited by Snowflake on 14-06-2004 at 03:20

	18-03-2004 10:41									#393
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My reply:

quote: Sigh, Maniac, I would like to apologize to you if my words really made you feel worse. I guess you don't understand me as Drogue did. Remember the PMs I sent you? Not the ones I sent as official messages or posts in the forum. Remember I said that read my post, think of my behavior then you would understand my love to you? You really didn't understand what I was truly saying to you. When Hive was changing its mind about the Hive CC relation long ago, I went out of my way to talk to you and Drogue about it, even risking being accused of leaking information. I am not able to do it again this time. If you think about how I have been pro CC and how I have always tried to be truthful and honarable, you should really question why I suddently turn against you and advocate war. The Hive's path's set a long time ago. In fact you know it from back the time we were still in pact. I am one that does not like to pretend one thing while secretly preparing for another. I believe that Voltaire and many other Hivers have the same feeling. However, from what you said, maybe I was wrong. Perhaps if we avoid the roleplaying part then people's feeling will be less hurt even when war does happen in the game. If this is the case, then I really need to apologize. To you, and to many others. People were wrong when they say I'm good at interpersonal skills. I try hard to make every one happy. However, I guess it is a fact that every one can not be happy in the same time. And the result of my effort is almost always every one is not happy. I made you mad. I also failed PEACE because of my inexperience in gaming skills. And I'm sure by talking to you I am making my teamates and tass not happy again. But one thing I would like to say is that I truly meant what I meant in my message to you. I think you are a very valuable player, not only to the CCs, but to the entire game. It may not mean much to you. But again you are wrong to think that I wanted you to stay because I want to "beat the crap out" for my "personal amusement". Perhaps I have a different mindset from many of you. While fighting a strong apponent is one thing that I would actually like, even if I'm the weaker side, I won't feel fun and amused in the kind of things like beating the PEACE to death. If you really have to leave, I'm truly sorry about it. But if you think that I try to talk you into stay for that reason, please, you are insulting both me and yourself. One thing I can promise, is that I will try to refrain from my "roleplaying", and I will also try to influence my teamate not to overdo it, if this is what you desire. Hong

	18-03-2004 10:58									#394
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I read both Maniac’s PM to you, and your responses HongHu, and I must say I am surprised. I thought it was clear that our RP was just that; yes, we started walking down the path to war with the CyCon long ago, and I think it was sealed when the University and CyCon merged, we just decided to try and have a bit of fun along the way in terms of the roleplaying, perhaps that was the wrong approach, I do not know, but it did not seem harmful at the time. I would hate for feelings to be hurt and relationships to be ruined because of a game (though it can happen). I think this is all in part because of misunderstandings between the Hive and the CyCon, they really do not know that we did not initially have hostile intentions toward them, in fact that we were rather friendly; we were not playing them at the start, nor do I think we ever tried to play them.

I will take your lead and refrain from extensive RPing since it seems to be having such a negative effect. I must admit I may have gone overboard with the RP attacks on the CyCon lately, I thought them good fun and games, and I thought them to be understood as such, but I guess I was mistaken. I will keep an objectively cool head about this from now on and not speak for the Hive, officially or otherwise, if I do speak it will be with calm and objectivity to ensure that nothing is misperceived (though this also does not always work).

*sigh*

	18-03-2004 11:04									#395
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Psh,

It looks like he's just upset that now the tables have turned. I'm sure he was having a ball when the CyCon were taking over PEACE, but now he see's that it's his turn to lose.

While I do feel sorry if he misinterpreted us into "roleplaying", I don't have sympathy for him if he see's the hopelessness in his situation and is mad that he's going to get his just desserts. How did PEACE feel when they were attacked?

As I see it, weren't they "beating the crap out" of PEACE for their own "personal amusement"? Rather hypocritical if you ask me. I'm just angry that he's getting upset at YOU when YOU are being honest and fruitful. If that's the way he feels about it, then there's nothing we can do about it. I believe you did EVERYTHING you could do....helping PEACE out, negotiating with CyCon, the works!

But he, as well as the rest of us ACDG'ers, have to realize that this is a GAME. And in this GAME, people lose. It sucks but that's how it is.

As for his "roleplaying" comments, I say you did everything you can do HONESTLY. I will personally vouch for your character. Again, that stuff about PEACE was HONEST. We were trying to save them so they could remain in the game.

	18-03-2004 11:06									#396
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Maniac's been suspicious of the Hive from the very beginning. In fact if it is not for him, we may be able to get a few more trades going and strengthen the relationship and perhaps we wouldn't even end at this place at all. I thought of telling him this, but thought better not to add insult to injury.

	18-03-2004 11:57									#397
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Psh (again),

Look, we were RP'ing and we didn't SAY anything. Sure, we might have HINTED to be contradictory, but didn't flat out say one thing and do another.

You know what, even though I respect Maniac as a player and as a fellow Apolytoner, he just has to lighten up. Again, we are playing a game.

And again, if anyone (and I mean ANYONE) tries to discredit your character, I will personally vouch on your behalf HongHu cause through all of this, you have repeatedly shown everyone here that you are a person of integrity.

(This is the kind of accusations on ppl's characters that get me angry...but hey, like I said, this is a game so no biggie).

	18-03-2004 13:12									#398
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Thanks comrade Franky. I wasn't really concerned about myself. But I would rather Maniac do not feel as bad as he described. Frankly you are right that it surely feels different when one is on the beating side (with PEACE) from when one is on the beated side (with us and drones). And he really shouldn't expect that he is always on top of the world and get pissed off if he has to go down. However, again, I want to try as hard as I can to just message his wound a little so that he does not get too hurt even if his feeling may not be justified.

	18-03-2004 22:53									#399
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PM from Impaler:

quote: Greatings Jamski, I am wondering if the Hive has any position on what apears to be a claim by the Drones that a combined Hive/Drone force has desided to attack CPU. Once again Buster has made a feeble atempt to role play when he posts a turn involving a declaration of vendetta. We will ofcorse know soon enough when we recive the turn from you but it always helps to make any position on resent events known ASAP, if you have not yet formulated a position can you atleast give us your general impression of what you feel the Hive will do. UPDATE - I see Jamski posted a very rousing plea for all of us to Unite against the Drones, that sounds quite fun, Cycon will likly agree to such a thing as we seem to be the main target at this point. On a lighter note a decisive majority of Cycon has chossen in resent polling to alow the Pirates to remain independent so long as they leave YardLong Island and migrate north. If they have indeed started production of a Colony Pod this turn as we requested then we will consider them to be in compliance. And ofcorse no Hive units may be stationed in PEACE bases for the forseeable future for this CeaseFire to remain in effect. At some point in the near future we hope to have the reperations ishue resolved and for transactions to be conducted, this will help accelerate to migration of PEACE to its new home and help them rebuild once they reach it. Is this proposal acceptable to the Hive?

	18-03-2004 22:57									#400
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I would like to respond and confirm our war against them and saying that the war is only intended toward Uni, not CCs. And that it is possible for us to settle without us advancing toward the CCs. We can still leave our options open can we? By doing this perhaps we can mitigate some of the hard feelings.

I realize that this is Arnelos right to do that though. I will only respond with an acknowledge of receipt then.

	18-03-2004 23:03									#401
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My response:

quote: Function Impaler, I have received your message and posted in the Hive forum. Note that since Arnelos is the current Hive Ambassador I cannot directly give you a response. On a personal note I wonder if you could ask Maniac to share the personal communications between him and me with you. It is not directly about the game rather it's about the roleplay aspect of the game. I hope that might shed some lights to the current situation. Comrade HongHu

	19-03-2004 08:59									#402
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PM from Impaler[WrG]:

quote: Greatings Arnelos, I am wondering if the Hive has any position on what apears to be a claim by the Drones that a combined Hive/Drone force has desided to attack CPU. Once again Buster has made a feeble atempt to role play when he posts a turn involving a declaration of vendetta. We will ofcorse know soon enough when we recive the turn from you but it always helps to make any position on resent events known ASAP, if you have not yet formulated a position can you atleast give us your general impression of what you feel the Hive will do. UPDATE - I see Jamski posted a very rousing plea for all of us to Unite against the Drones, that sounds quite fun, Cycon will likly agree to such a thing as we seem to be the main target at this point. On a lighter note a decisive majority of Cycon has chossen in resent polling to alow the Pirates to remain independent so long as they leave YardLong Island and migrate north. If they have indeed started production of a Colony Pod this turn as we requested then we will consider them to be in compliance. And ofcorse no Hive units may be stationed in PEACE bases for the forseeable future for this CeaseFire to remain in effect. At some point in the near future we hope to have the reperations ishue resolved and for transactions to be conducted, this will help accelerate the migration of PEACE to its new home and help them rebuild once they reach it.

My response:

quote: Impaler, Well, unfortunately you might say, a clear majority of the Human Hive is strongly in favor of war and has been for some time. A number of people have wished peace with all parties, but Jamski is entirely ALONE in wishing to backstab the Drones now that the Drones have committed to the attack. So, I'm sorry to tell you that yes, it is the intention of the Human Hive to join with the Drones' assault on CPU. Mead has already started playing our turn and we have already joined in the assault. This has the backing of pretty much the entire upper leadership (Voltaire, HongHu, Mead) and most of the team beyond that. The issue has been polled and passed overwhelmingly (yeah, we actually had a poll in the Human Hive!). Jamski's proposal to ally with the CyCon and backstab the Drones received one vote in favor (his) and the rest of the team unanimously against it. Even those who wish peace with CyCon do not wish to go as far as to backstab the Drones. So Jamski is quite alone on that issue. The only reason I can see that he continues to harp on it is that doing so increases his postcount. He's started no less than 3 polls on the issue, all of which he has lost. I think he's now started 2 public threads as well - they won't go anywhere. The team has made its decision and even those which were mildly uncomfortable with that decision have agreed that with both the leadership and the majority of the team united on the issue, this is the team's policy and that's that. For my part, I was asked to write the RP war declaration, which I was just cleared to post in the public forum. We are now quite beyond the point at which I do not believe there is any turning back. For what it's worth, I obviously have no animosity toward you guys, since there would be no basis for such animosity in my short time on the team. My statement to MrWIA (which Tassadar seemed to think was a "leak"...) that I thought the Planetary Council motion was "stupid" was true. It did nothing to help our team's position, probably only served to warn CPU of our impending attack, and just uselessly upset people when it was not made CLEAR that it was entirely RP. This is why I have insisted that the war declaration I wrote must be clearly labelled as RP and bears no relevance to what people may truly think of one another. To be honest, I think a good portion of CPU was already aware of our liklihood to strike. It's even questionable whether those such as you that we chatted with were at all deceived in the slightest or merely pretended to be. The last chat I held with you was especially difficult, seeing as that I could not say "we will not attack you" or "we want peace", but merely things like "I'll take it back to the team". If I was frustratingly coy, this is why. I had been instructed not to reveal the war until the Drones had played their turn... so my only recourse was to skirt the issue as much as possible. I'm reasonably sure that if logs of the various chats were posted to your forum, there are some on your team who quite certainly realized this. To the extent that you, MrWIA, and others put out sincere efforts to avert a war that you did not realize was already decided upon, I thank you for your efforts even though there's nothing I could do. I was saddened at the time that I was barred by the instructions I had from just telling you we would be at war the next turn and saving you from going to the trouble of trying to avert it. If it helps, I've been in that position before myself. You can get the details from UnOrthOdOx on your team. Once upon a time in another DG, I was in your shoes and he was in mine. I have no idea where this war is going to go. It seems that everyone expects that it will go well for the Hive and Drones, but one can never be entirely certain. So good luck. - Arnelos

	19-03-2004 09:05									#403
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Nicely done Arnelos.

Very kind, diplomatic, and gentle of you.


Mead

	19-03-2004 10:36									#404
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I am again very glad that you joined us Arnelos.

	19-03-2004 11:43									#405
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He certainly has a way with words

	19-03-2004 17:36									#406
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Excellent work Comrade!

	20-03-2004 08:45									#407
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Impaler[WrG]'s response:

quote: Thanks for the Reply Arnelos, now that it seems all the cards are on the table I might as well elaborate further on Cycons stance. From about the point when we learned both the Hive and Drones were located on the same continent and that your had shared several tecnologies (which we knew from Pact with Pirates) we calculated a very high probability of an Aliance between your two factions. The Hives long standing policy of remaining secretive about its relations with the Drones also raised suspicion. When we finaly became Pacted to the Hive we had our suspicions raised further when we saw the Hive had nothing but Scout patrols for defence. Coperation with the Drones in stealing Nural Grafting and tec switching to MMI along with Un-Pacting us basicaly convinced us that you were going to go for a Co-op with them and our only real chance was to break up that relationship and get the Hive to side with us. Unfortunatly due to consistent failure on our part to apoint an Embasador who logs on more then once a month we never realy succeded in persuading you to do that. I have no problem telling you at this point that your going to win the war easily, infact you could probly do it with one hand tied behind your back at this point. We havent prepared militarily for this kind of thing as we have been trying to fix our poor Economy for some time now but we were simply too far behind Economicaly to catch up with you and Drones. We were trying to prepare in Uni territory but we were still atleast 5 turns away from being secure and as the games tecnologies heavily favor the attacker at this point when weapons are 6 and defence is 3 we expect the Drones Choped Droped Half of Uni on their turn and will Blitzkrige south at lightning speed. The Hive will likly have a much more difficult time attacking us as the Core Cycon terriotory is seperated by the Captured PEACE territory and a good deal of water to boot. Thankfully we managed to deny you PEACE base from which to attack us (this has been our driving purpose behind our attacks on them latly). We knew that diplomatic efforts could only go so far. Cycon was willing to accept just about any kind of peace deal and took a wait and see aproatch, we knew if the Hive didn't attack us then we would be safe atleast for the meantime. We also knew that an unambigus full scale attack was a very probable thing. Most of use have suspected that the Hives assertions that it felt threatened by Cycon was mearly a bluff intended to delay us from preparing our defences or from eliminating PEACE (which we will ofcorse be forced to do now) though the Drone attack did suprise us a bit, we had expected Buster to wait untill he had Fusion power. Purhaps he percived our defences growing to strong. Politicaly within the Conciousness their is a good sized "fight to the last Cyborg" camp and I would have to count myself in with them. PEACE didn't quit when they were down to once base, we must show that we can take it in addition to dish it out. Besides I would like to gain some experience fighting a defensive war (something that rarely happens in these games). Lastly we wouldn't want to cheat yall out of your war, you have been building all game and finaly crushing your helpless economicaly inferior oponents under your heel is the pay off for us Build oriented folks. If the Hive has any kinds of plans to Back stab the Drones after the war against Cycon is won then some of us would be happy to assimilate into the Hive and come along for the ride even as low level members. On the other hand I am certain that a number of Cyborgs will chosse to activate their Self Delete Codes and drop this Democracy game, Maniac has already done so as he felt the burden of the games time consumtion wasn't justified if we are going to loss. I think as a whole though we will remain a workable faction even after this step down in partispation. If the Hive and Drones wanted us too we might simply capitulate at this point and we could all then move onto the next Democracy Game. As before the ball is in your court, we have had a very fun game and think we did quite well considering the what we were up againsts. No hard feelings on anyones part, though I do wish you had done as Jamski sugjests as it would have been a realy interesting war unlike the borring one you will have now.

	20-03-2004 08:46									#408
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My response to Impaler[WrG]:

quote: quote: Politicaly within the Conciousness their is a good sized "fight to the last Cyborg" camp and I would have to count myself in with them. PEACE didn't quit when they were down to once base, we must show that we can take it in addition to dish it out. Besides I would like to gain some experience fighting a defensive war (something that rarely happens in these games). Lastly we wouldn't want to cheat yall out of your war, you have been building all game and finaly crushing your helpless economicaly inferior oponents under your heel is the pay off for us Build oriented folks. If the Hive has any kinds of plans to Back stab the Drones after the war against Cycon is won then some of us would be happy to assimilate into the Hive and come along for the ride even as low level members. I'm glad to hear that. I've been in your shoes on this matter before, as I said. In the PTWDG, it was my team (of which I was the chief diplomat and VP figure) being gangbanged by two other teams with superior units and an economic advantage. We were helped by the team that was in the lead in the game at that point, but the help just wasn't enough against the odds (and both we and our allies made some stupid blunders in the campaign... useful learning experiences). I'd say that a lot of running that campaign was interesting, though obviously watching each of your cities/bases be taken by your enemy is never a pleasant experience. In the end, we just holed up our entire army in the capital and forced our allied enemies to wait around building up enough troops that they could take us out in our one remaining city. We ended up losing the city and thus our last holding on our home continent when one of our turnplayers made (in my opinion) a rather MAJOR blunder moving forces out of the city (against orders from both the team leader and myself, the VP-equiv. at the time ... if only we hadn't both been out of town), exposing them to attack, and leaving our last city with a weaker defense... a blunder that made the city far easier to take when our enemies finally moved to assault it. This said, we did learn a lot, especially from the mistakes we and our allies made. It's been months since we lost that war and our team is currently in a somewhat similar situation to PEACE in this game, though because of the way Civ3 works we can't actually be wiped out until someone gets amphibious attack units to invade our shores. Facing such overwhelming odds, though, we never really expected to win in the first place. So I can't entirely blame our war strategy for our loss. We knew we were going to lose, it was only a matter of how long it would take and how much we were going to make our enemies pay for it. So I'll definately tell you good luck with this. I don't know what strategy you will opt for to make the price of any Hive/Drone victory to be as high as possible (assuming we even make it so far with the game), but you guys definately win points for standing to defend like PEACE did before you. Another bit of my experience from that game though... the jobs of diplomats like us when these armageddon wars start become EXCEEDINGLY boring. The generals are doing all of the meaningful inter-team discussion anyhow. What time I spent doing diplomacy was spent in futile attempts at breaking up the opposing alliance. So, with all of that said, good luck. - Arnelos

	20-03-2004 15:35									#409
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Great, they have rehabilitated their reputation with this decision. In fact, I think if we had pacted with all others against drones, we´d have won too easily. Even Buster couldn´t stand such an assault, especially since we´d have shared all technology with our allies...

Plus, I believe taking out the CyCon will be a *very* difficult enterprise. We´ll probably need a decent marine force when they start building AA in their bases. But well, let the future tell us

That said, let me add a big THANK YOU for our diplomats

	21-03-2004 00:39									#410
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I personally think we made the right decision, we were in it with the Drones from the start, it is good that we finish it together.

And once again, excellent work to Comrade Arnelos. Though there are still a few other things to be done. For one we should try to keep PEACE on our side, they won’t be exceptionally helpful to the cause, but it will lend legitimacy to our war.

	22-03-2004 23:40									#411
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PEACE should definitely be on our good side....while they may be small, a thorn in the foot is a nuisance no matter how you look at it.

With this said, are we looking for Co-op victory or an eventual Hive-only win in the end?

	28-03-2004 10:55									#412
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To tell you the truth, what I was thinking was only to attack PUT and then make peace with CCs. I still remember earlier in this game we talked about that the Hive will stay neutral when Drones's fight with the CCs and we will be fighting the Roze. However things do change. So I don't know what's going to happen any more.

	30-03-2004 01:00									#413
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quote: Hi HongHu, From the "What is the status of the game??" thread: quote: Originally posted by HongHu The misdelievered PM threatening Hive declaring vendetta against PEACE or face vendetta from the CyCons was the last straw that breaks the camel's back. Could you please send that PM to me if you still have a copy of it? Who was it sent to? Who read it? Who posted it in the Hive forum? Who first claimed that this supposedly was CyCon's true intent, and how did that person(s) claim to have acquired such "information"? Friendly greetings, Maniac

	30-03-2004 01:16									#414
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quote: Jamski told Kody and Voltaire that you send this PM to him I think. I was added to that conversation although I wasn't there at the time. But I should still have the chat transcript. I'll have to go home and find it for you. Upon being asked for forwarding of that PM, Jamski did not do it because he has deleted it I think. I do not remember who posted it in the Hive forum but I will look for it after I send this. Voltaire later contacted the CCs and Drogue PMed us back saying that it was not the CCs intent. You may remember that I posted in our embassy complaining about this. That was the reason of the second Jamski trial and some of the team members were discussing that perhaps Jamski really wants to be in the CC team. I told them that I believe that Jamski loves the Hive and I trust that he wouldn't do anything that would harm the Hive and that we should not send him out of the team. I later tried to ask Jamski for an explanation for I believed it could be a genuine misunderstanding since he had been away from Hive for some time. But he refused to explain and said that he has to protect his friend. I thought he meant you. But I couldn't understand why you would want to do it. I would appreciate if you could provide anything that would eliviate me from my confusion. I'm going to post our communications on the Hive forum. I will also forward you the posts about this incident when I locate them. Hong

	30-03-2004 01:59									#415
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quote: Here are some posts in the one thread about this. There are other posts around other threads too. We've had quite some discussions since many believed that Hive was at a crossroad. I have not included some of the posts that contains more detailed recommendations regarding what Hive should do. Thread title: CyCon Ultimatum started by Voltaire quote: ~The following is a public service announcement by the Central Continuing Committee~ Earlier today the Cybernetic Consciousness allegedly issued an ultimatum to the Human Hive. The ultimatum read as follows: unless the Hive joins the war on PEACE on the site of the CyCon then the CyCon will consider the Hive as an enemy and will have to declare vendetta. No confirmation has been received in regards to the truth of this ultimatum, the government has attempted to contact the CyCon on several occasions, but the answers received (when they were finally received) were ambiguous and did not tell us anything, merely that the CyCon representative would have to report back to his government on this issue. The question before the people of the Hive is as follows: how should the Hive respond to this ultimatum? Express your opinions before the whole People of the Human Hive so that they may be heard and taken into account in the governments decision making. Present a clear case for the position and action you advocate. The government will keep you informed as we receive more information about this ultimatum, stay tuned. -Central Containing Committee quote: Originally posted by Jamski Firstly, some info, so as not to make it all secret. An unnamed senior CyCon official sent this info in a PM to me. We later got the turn, and we are at Vendetta with the CyCon. They are offering a pact. The CyCon know somehow of our pact with their enemies, the Pirates. This seems to be thier main problem with us. Either we have a leak, or they have infilteration. If we do not accept the pact with the CyCon, then we ill continue in a state of Vendetta. PMs with a different CyCon member revealed some confusion o the issue and a passing of blame. The CyCon have asked for more time to discuss. This suggests either the CyCon are divided on the issue, the annoucment was fake, the announcement was unauthorised, or they have changed thier minds. So... that's what we know. I'm respecting the CyCon's wishes to remain unnamed. -Jam This one represented some of the Hive reactions: quote: Comrade Chairman, my thoughts: We, the People of the Human Hive, are our own separate faction with our own agenda on Planet. If the CyCon faction think they can bully us into taking a side in their vendetta, then I believe they are sorely mistaken. The principle fact is that if we show weakness now, then other factions may very well expect us to roll over the next time. Jamski quote: Originally posted by Jamski They say the Hive has no chance against the "most advanced millitary on Chiron" or something (too lazy to look up the exact quote) -Jam quote: Originally posted by Jamski quote: How the hell could the Hive succesfully attack us? We have the most advanced army of all human factions on Chiron. Also, normally PEACE should no longer exist in 15 years. There you are, word for word as he said it -Jam This also represents some reactions: quote: I don't know, but I want to get to the bottom of this. Who is this 'unnamed CyCon official?' It's now rather obvious there's a rat somewhere. quote: Originally posted by Jamski Well, probably its not Drogue, as he is asking who it was. However this would be classic denial trick. Of course PMs are called PMs for a reason. -Jam quote: Originally posted by HongHu Sorry I didn't have time to contribute more input earlier. Now I will attempt to write out my understanding of the situation, see if it will help anybody. As the Hive's CC ambassador, I have discussed with Function Drogue and Maniac regarding their upcoming PEACE war and the Hive-CC relationship in a talk recently. I have restated the Hive's position. I told the CC that the Hive is very willing to further the Hive CC relationship, with the cavert that CC must understand that at this time there are not enough support for us to go into a joint victory report with the CC. The CC informed me that by this turn (2150) the CC is ready to accept the Hive's pact offer. Also the CC will start its PEACE war that it has been planning for some time. We have also talked about this following detail. Since the Hive is currently pacted with the PEACE, after the CC declares vendetta against the PEACE, the computer will automatically change the Hive CC relationship to vendetta. It was agreed that the CC will immediately offer a pact back to us. And I have agreed that the Hive will accept it. In that talk as well as other previous communications through the Embassy, the CC understood and accepted the Hive's stance toward the PEACE: that we are not prepared to go into war with the PEACE at this moment, because we would like to keep our integrity of the pact, and also because we don't have any military force to spare. We have discussed in the case if the university will declare vendetta against CC, we may want to offer our spiritual help to the CC by declaring vendetta against the university, but again we have made sure that the CC understands that due to our limited military ability, this would mainly be a gesture, instead of an actual war. Based on the above information, I have seriously conservation about the aforementioned "CyCon Ultimatum". It appeared to be a drastic departure from the CC's stance toward us, so drastic that I doubt its truthfulness. I am not accusing Comrade Jamski was lying here. Rather, I believe in the spirit of helping the CC Hive relationship, Comrade Jamski had taken initiatives to contact the CC. However because he had not been involved in the game and was not very clear about the current situation, there might be some misunderstanding and thus led to this PM perhaps from one CC function. Since now it has been officially denied by the CyCons, I believe we should not taken this as the CC's official stance. quote: Originally posted by Jamski To add to what HongHu said, I got a PM today from xxxx, which said I should not have told anyone about his/her PMs, especially with Tass's witch-hunt thread in action. quote: Since now it has been officially denied by the CyCons, I believe we should not taken this as the CC's official stance. I agree, although there is still the possibilty that this could be thier unofficial stance... -Jam Since my understanding is that senior CC officials are you, Drogue and Impaler and the other two has publically denied their knowledge of this, so I have thought that it was you who had sent this PM. I would really appreciate if you could tell me what was going on and if it was you or not. Hong

	31-03-2004 09:12									#416
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I've obtained Maniac's permission to post this in our forum:

quote: Jamski Affair http://apolyton.net/upload/view.php...amskiAffair.

	31-03-2004 09:18									#417
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Well looks like he deleted it. I will forward the copy to Chairman and if he decides that I should post it out then I will.

	31-03-2004 09:21									#418
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More PMs to Maniac:

quote: quote: Btw may I ask, do you know what happened that made Kody, Voltaire ad AFAIK other Hiveans apparently pissed off at laurentius? A couple of months back he's had many chats with Hiveans we didn't know about, and apparently he made many people angry for some reason. I don't know too much about him. Tass actually accused me of leaking info to him when I didn't even know him. But I think he had claimed that he has infiltrated all ACDG teams other than the Drones. And that may have pissed some people off.

	31-03-2004 16:45									#419
	Remove this text

Comrade HongHu,

I remember him saying that he had all the factions infiltrated. I, for one, did not have contact with him as per the command for all Hive citizens to cease talks with every other faction except for diplomats.

	05-04-2004 17:39									#420
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That time period was very complicated.... and in my opinion none of the things are really resolved....

At least I know that Maniac doesn't have it in for me, since he hasn't reserved that kind of PM just for me.