16-03-2004 02:00									#361
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

Actually, on re-reading that PM, its totally irrelavent "humourous materials"

-Jam

	16-03-2004 02:37									#362
	Full PM-box? Change here!

You are such a lier.

	16-03-2004 03:26									#363
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

Ok, it was a detailed plan of the location of all our units and those of the Drones, that's why I can't post it.

No really, I just made some jokes about planet busters again.

-Jam

	16-03-2004 05:03									#364
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

Um... why is more than one person sending diplomatic PMs on behalf of the team???

The team needs an official spokesperson empowered by the team to make statements to other teams as an ambassador. Other members of the team will probably chat wih members of other teams online and that's unavoidable (and on some level even desirable, though team members should not divulge any information or plans, of course), but ultimately ONE PERSON needs to be tasked as our liaison. Everyone else agrees to stay out of their way unless that person isn't doing their job.

	16-03-2004 05:15									#365
	Remove this text

I'm sending conflicting signals still. I'm like a light - keep on shining till someone switches me off.

-Jam

	16-03-2004 06:07									#366
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

I agree with Comrade Arnelos. One person should be the official spokesperson, with the rest of us chiming in.

As for the CPU, I say to hell with them. It sounds more like they are bragging and trying to intimidate us with their credit reserves and potential industrial might. They might as well be saying that "Stay in line or we'll squash you like we did with PEACE" and "You and the Drones don't stand a chance against us".

I say we tell them that the future belongs to humanity...or to put it in terms they can understand:

Chiron + Human factions - Cyborgs = Future

	16-03-2004 12:32									#367
	Full PM-box? Change here!

Impaler came into #Apolyton and proceeded to attempt to grill me about ACDG issues. OctavianX and Frankychan were both there for a bit as well.

Just so it's clear, we have now passed the critical period in which the genie had to stay in the bottle on operational security, but until I'm told otherwise, I'm not going to spill that we're about to attack them with everything we've got.

If you guys want to give me clearance to let them know that we regret to notify them that we are now at war, I can do that. But I'm not going to do until I get clearance from above and the first notification should come with the formal declaration and no sooner.

We should probably wait the agonizing ~48 hours through PEACE's turn to the Drones' turn before posting.

Anyhow, here's the chatlog:

quote: * Impaler[WrG] has joined #apolyton Impaler[WrG]> hello Impaler[WrG]> Can Octavian or Arnelos discuss Hive/Cycon relations with me? Octavian_X> I would, but I'm way to outta the loop to be of any use at all right now. Arnelos> lemme check the Hive forum. I'm definately *rather* busy with the Civ3 ISDG at the moment, but I can at least check if I've been approved and, if so, answer any questions. Impaler[WrG]> oh too bad Impaler[WrG]> ok Impaler[WrG]> Our turn has been played already Impaler[WrG]> we havent attacked any Hive units * Arnelos doesn't see your turn on the turn tracking thread Impaler[WrG]> but yall seem to consider PEACE to be some kind of protectorate/vassel state now Arnelos> heh Impaler[WrG]> as you seem to be willing to go to war to protect them Impaler[WrG]> this is most illogical Impaler[WrG]> I belive Maniac has posted the turn Arnelos> w00t... Voltaire approved my appointment Octavian_X> hehe Impaler[WrG]> yes Maniac has sent the turn to PEACE Arnelos> well, we just had a poll/discussion thread about whether it was WORTH saving PEACE Impaler[WrG]> ok cool Impaler[WrG]> I dont realy see what yall gain? Arnelos> the team was somewhat divided on that issue Arnelos> that was the objecion brought up by Jamski Impaler[WrG]> likwise I am oposed to us finishing them off at this point because we gain nothing Impaler[WrG]> we already took all their good bases Impaler[WrG]> and a bunch of crappy ones too Impaler[WrG]> the main argument now for eliminating them is that the Hive will use the bases as a staging area to attack us Impaler[WrG]> but if the relations with the Hive improve we would no longer have that motivation Impaler[WrG]> what do you think? * settler2 has joined #apolyton * settler2 has quit IRC (Quit: settler2) Impaler[WrG]> humm it seems the destruction of the Peace ship is starting a big thread on the forum Impaler[WrG]> seems PEACE feels we broke the CeaseFire Arnelos> I saw that Arnelos> :shrug: Arnelos> sorry, was posting in the Hive forum since Voltaire is back and posted a bunch of stuff * WIA has joined #apolyton Impaler[WrG]> ok well I wish to defuse this situation * Arnelos goes to check out the "PEACE survival?" thread... Impaler[WrG]> we have something equivilent to the Cuban Missle Crisis here WIA> Hi Impaler! Impaler[WrG]> hey Impaler[WrG]> good news Arnelos has been oked to act as Diplomat to us WIA> Chatting with Arn about the SMACDG, eh? Impaler[WrG]> you bet WIA> Aha! WIA> In your face Tass! Impaler[WrG]> I see though that the situation is deteriorating Impaler[WrG]> theirs a nasty thread over the destruction of the PEACE ship WIA> Really? Hive feels threatened? WIA> This is all so silly - they take a CP, we take a unit that isn't theirs... everyone gets bloodlust and the Drones win, Arnelos> WIA - no PEACE Arnelos> Maki started the thread Arnelos> (Makahlua) WIA> Oh, so PEACE is worried we killed a ship of theirs? Impaler[WrG]> well I think we need a clarification here Impaler[WrG]> Dose the Hive consider PEACE to be a protectorate, a vassal, an alie? Impaler[WrG]> it just seems that you want them to remain in the game and for us not to attack them Arnelos> To be honest, the Hive has not developed (as yet) such a formal distinction of our relationship with PEACE Impaler[WrG]> ok well a formal policy would realy help Arnelos> I think much of the team just laments their destruction and wants see them survive, even if only with a base Impaler[WrG]> PEACE claims that they know nothing about your destruction of the Pod Arnelos> That's almost certainly true. We did not tell them about it. Impaler[WrG]> so you keep them in the dark about your action? WIA> There is certainly a lot of possibility for negotiations to that end with us. Impaler[WrG]> I wouldn't tell them if I were you either WIA> Well if Hive-PEACE have no formal close relations then I wouldn't be surprised about that. Impaler[WrG]> if you wish them to live for purely emotional reasons then thats agreeable to us Arnelos> OctX - I like the suggested title Impaler[WrG]> atleast to me Impaler[WrG]> Many Cycons are just bloodlusted over eliminating a faction Impaler[WrG]> its a trophy kind of thing I think Arnelos> That's my impression of what the team thinks. HongHu posted as much, actually. Octavian_X> You only get that title if I get a spot somewhere on your committee that doesn't require me to do any work. WIA> It's just a bit of confusion really. REcently Hive officials have been quite openly hostile recently, and that has led to alarm Impaler[WrG]> I think we have goten all the benifits our war can achive though and anything more is getting personal Arnelos> ah, I see the turn posted by Maniac WIA> If we can get some real discussion and trust going with the Hive things will get better Impaler[WrG]> Our earlier sugjestion of a Nutral Zone and Peace resetaling in Fossil Field Ridege didnt seem to generate much interst with the Hive Impaler[WrG]> that would seemingly have adressed all of your conserns Impaler[WrG]> PEACE would be a distant and non threatening minor faction towards us Arnelos> I honestly don't know the geography of the map that well. I'll just have to take that one back to the team for discussion. Impaler[WrG]> Even a Hive Vassel if you wish Impaler[WrG]> can you open up the Saves? Arnelos> yeah, but I'm currently running Civ3 Impaler[WrG]> well the general area would be in the Northern Hemisphere to the East of the Hives lands Impaler[WrG]> its an arcapeligo of Islands * Arnelos goes to look at Makahlua's "what the hell is this" thread..... Impaler[WrG]> PEACE could live their quite nicly but would be limited in power Arnelos> I've seen the map, just don't know the names of the regions... somewhere in the far north would be fine, I think Arnelos> but, as I said, I'd want my team to discuss it, obviously Impaler[WrG]> We would then control the Large Island that CrossBone way is on Impaler[WrG]> and north of that would be PEACE territory * Frankychan has joined #Apolyton Impaler[WrG]> hey Franky Frankychan> is this thing working? Frankychan> What's up! Impaler[WrG]> ummmmmm Impaler[WrG]> YES WIA> Hi Franky Impaler[WrG]> I mean no Frankychan> This chat is finally working....I've been trying to get in this for weeks now Impaler[WrG]> this is all a malfucntion!! Impaler[WrG]> and your just in time too WIA> Welcome... help us thumb our noses at Tass Frankychan> I always get a freakin error message Frankychan> lol * Octavian_X has quit IRC (Quit: Moo.) Impaler[WrG]> ok me and WIA are definatly in the Peace faction of Cycon Frankychan> huh? Frankychan> PEACE? Frankychan> I don't quite follow..... Impaler[WrG]> yes were trying to avert this war Frankychan> ah, i see. I'm getting mixed up between peace and PEACE Frankychan> hmmmm Impaler[WrG]> most of Cycon fell that the Hive is preparing an all out war against us Frankychan> lol Impaler[WrG]> They have plenty of reason to belive it too * Octavian_X has joined #apolyton * Arnelos slaps Octavian_X around with a trade embargo! Impaler[WrG]> first ya canceled the Pact * settler2 has joined #apolyton * settler2 has quit IRC (Quit: settler2) * Octavian_X throws a keyboard at Arnelos WIA> I'm not pro_Peace nevessarily, just anti war with the Hive. Impaler[WrG]> then ya start making rediculus demands in council like returning all our captured bases to PEACE, ya knew that was impossible Frankychan> well....I'm just a citizen of the Hive. I just try to contribute what I can, where I can, when I can * Arnelos throws a copy of Windows ME at Octavian_X! Arnelos> smack! * Octavian_X drives over Arnelos Frankychan> whoa whoa whoa....that's the policies of the 'higher-ups' Impaler[WrG]> most feel that the counsil proposals were mearly to establish Causi Bellum for a war Arnelos> Impaler - noted. That was the part of my chat with MrWIA that Tassadar took such exception to. Arnelos> I mentioned that I thought the council motion was "stupid" Frankychan> hmmm, well I don't want Tassadar to close us down so I'll try not to talk about it too much Impaler[WrG]> Can I ask why you felt canceling Pact was a good idea? WIA> Dammit - stupid flatmate needs phone free for indeterminate amount of time. Back as soon as I can. Impaler[WrG]> k Frankychan> k Arnelos> Impaler - I think the pact cancellation predates my arrival. I honestly do not know. Impaler[WrG]> that move realy soured relations Impaler[WrG]> oh yes I belive it did pre-date Frankychan> Well, we're voting on our resolutions, but the Hive is pretty split right now Arnelos> that would be a fair assessment Arnelos> to put it lightly Impaler[WrG]> split between all out war and peace? Frankychan> In all honesty, from my point of view...the events of CPU vs. PEACE was looking pretty close to our shores Frankychan> rofl, on EVERYTHING Arnelos> Impaler[WrG]> IC Impaler[WrG]> well it seemed to us that you were going to give them ConSelf 57 Impaler[WrG]> we didnt want that to happen Impaler[WrG]> as our goal was total elimination Frankychan> i have to check the forums tho. I have periodic internet connection and can only access at the University Impaler[WrG]> For one thing that would help speed up the game, PEACE takes forever to play its turns Frankychan> lol Impaler[WrG]> If we cant agree to coperate as I sugjested in my message then we can atleast have a stand down of military forces Impaler[WrG]> I fear that if any more units are lost on either side then war will become inevitable Arnelos> that is also likely a fair assessment. This will almost certainly spin out of control if more units die. Impaler[WrG]> shurely you must have realized this when you destroyed the Colony Pod? Arnelos> to the extent that parts of our teams are not already clamoring for war, of course Arnelos> oh yes Frankychan> wait, sorry...gotta help patron at work Impaler[WrG]> I sense the Hives leadership dose not realize the significane of the CP destruction Impaler[WrG]> I hear things like "it was only a Mind Controled Unit" Impaler[WrG]> or "it was just civilians" Impaler[WrG]> as if its destruction were of no real consicuence Impaler[WrG]> admitedly in game terms it wasn't significant Frankychan> where the does it say that? Can you direct me? * settler2 has joined #apolyton * settler2 has quit IRC (Quit: settler2) Impaler[WrG]> but coming at a time of stressed relations and mistrust it has realy beed bad Impaler[WrG]> "it was just Civilians" came from a PM Jamski sent me Frankychan> wtf? Impaler[WrG]> ? Arnelos> Jamski posted that he'd PMed you... for which he has been admonished... not that that has much impact. Impaler[WrG]> In response to that Olive Branch message I sent Frankychan> i'm not sure of that in all honesty Impaler[WrG]> well I quickly realized from his PM's that we was not a good contact Impaler[WrG]> I have desided to ignore him for the most part Arnelos> lol Impaler[WrG]> ok well my point is that it seems the Colony Pod was destroyed lightly and without much though of long term consiquences by the Hive Arnelos> to be blunt, Jamski likes to troll Impaler[WrG]> yes I think your right Frankychan> lol, heck yes Impaler[WrG]> So as for the Colony Pod Impaler[WrG]> we still havent recived satisfactory reason for its destruction Impaler[WrG]> beyond some asertions that it "threatened" you which most of us find rediculus * WIA has quit IRC (Ping timeout) Impaler[WrG]> can you point out the reasoning behind that desision? Arnelos> Impaler - to be honest, the team really was rather jittery that the colony pod could be used to found a CyCon base of operations a bit uncomfortably close to Hive territory. Arnelos> Having not looked at those saves, I can't really ascertain whether that fear was justified. Impaler[WrG]> well such a base would not be much of a threat now would it Impaler[WrG]> I mean you could easily trash such a base Octavian_X> G'night folks. Arnelos> cya OctX Impaler[WrG]> and we never DID found such a base now did we * Octavian_X has quit IRC (Quit: Error: User has life. Closing connection...) Impaler[WrG]> so your in a position of saying that your attack on us is justified because we MIGHT have done something that COULD have threatened you Impaler[WrG]> you must see how weak that argument is? Arnelos> Impaler - I'll take that to the team. As I said, I haven't seen those saves since I only recently reinstalled SMAX. I recall that the issue was that a number of team members were afraid that the CP would be used to found a base near us and that might SIGNIFICANTLY raise the stakes of the bulk of your military getting rather close while trying to finish off PEACE. Frankychan> night Impaler[WrG]> later Frankychan> argh, sorry another patron Arnelos> cya * settler2 has joined #apolyton * settler2 has quit IRC (Quit: settler2) Impaler[WrG]> ok I will tell them that but I doubt it will be accepted Arnelos> I wouldn't expect it to, really Impaler[WrG]> HAD we actualy done that then it would be a differnt story Arnelos> I think the team understands that if we want peace, there will have to be compensation for the CP Impaler[WrG]> we had planned to remove the Pod and merge it with a base or found some new base in richer territory Arnelos> ah Frankychan> i see. Impaler[WrG]> we would not have made such a provacative move as to found a base within air range of the Hive Impaler[WrG]> The Pod was simply ware it was because that ware we Mind Controled it Impaler[WrG]> and we had no transports in range withwitch to get it Impaler[WrG]> I think a modest 60 Credits or offering a Treaty will be a good measure at this point Frankychan> we should talk about how we can repay you guys then. Arnelos> Personally, I think the problem was a lack of communication between the teams. Much of this was admittedly caused by the lack of an active Hive representative. Impaler[WrG]> mind you that we spend 171 Credits to mind control it Impaler[WrG]> yes I agree, more comunication is needed Frankychan> Gotta talk with the higher ups, but I think 60 is ok. Impaler[WrG]> thats 20 Credits per row so its basicly the build cost of the Pod Arnelos> ok, I gotta take off Impaler[WrG]> seems a fair standard to use Frankychan> see ya Arnelos Impaler[WrG]> when can we talk again? Arnelos> before I take off... lemme see if I remember all of the issues to forward to my team Arnelos> (though I'll post a log) * Arnelos is saving a log Impaler[WrG]> 1 - PEACE can survive if they leave our sphere of influence and travel North to atleast to Fossil Field Ridge Frankychan> tthat doesn't sound too bad to me Impaler[WrG]> 2 - If Hive dose not attack our units and either sends 60 Credits or signs a Treaty we will return our forces to Atlantis Frankychan> ? Impaler[WrG]> So 60 Credits and Truce Impaler[WrG]> Or signing a Treaty Frankychan> You mean you've launched a punitive expedition already? Frankychan> wth is that? Impaler[WrG]> no Frankychan> ah, ok Impaler[WrG]> we havent attacke any Hive units Impaler[WrG]> though we easily could have Impaler[WrG]> If the Hive simply moves its units North * settler2 has joined #apolyton * settler2 has quit IRC (Quit: settler2) Impaler[WrG]> we will move ours South Impaler[WrG]> but if the units that are within range of Hive attacks are attacked then we will likly make retaliatory strikes Frankychan> ok, i see. thanks for clarifying that. Impaler[WrG]> ok Frankychan> that sounds fairly reasonable to me * Arnelos has saved the log Arnelos> ok, taking off... will post in the Hive forum

	16-03-2004 13:08									#368
	Support Apolyton

If you really want the summary of the above chat... this private chat essentially breaks it down for you.

Here is my little private chat with OctavianX during the early/mid stages of the chat discussed above:

quote: OctavianX> hey OctavianX>I'm going to stay out of this... I'm not very lying if that becomes necessary. Arnelos> hey Arnelos> I haven't lied to them... that's what I'm trying to avoid... which means skirting the issues Octavian_X> Admittedly, another thing I'm not good at - Generally, myself, I prefer going straight for the issue at hand. Octavian_X> I probably would have declared war right out on them by now... Arnelos> the only reason we have not is the Drones Arnelos> it has been necessary to maintain operational security/secrecy until the operation actually begins... Octavian_X> true, true. Arnelos> there's no question that keeping this genie in the bottle has not been easy Octavian_X> I do sometimes get the feeling they already know as well... Arnelos> many of them do Arnelos> people like these guys may be part of hte disbelievers Arnelos> much of the team will attack these guys for being naive when we strike Arnelos> I feel sorta bad for that Arnelos> they'll tell these guys that they should have listened to those who knew what was really going on... that we were poised to strike Octavian_X> This is why I love my spot as admin at the MZO game - the way the teams interact like this is fascinating. Octavian_X> Well, best of luck. I'm off to sleep. Arnelos> cya

	16-03-2004 13:18									#369
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

Continued from Comrade Arnelos' departure from the chatroom. I stayed, hoping that Function Impaler would see me as a "joe-shmoe". I hope I didn't overstep my bounds as a loyal Hive citizen. I'm not exactly sure on how well Function Impaler believes where I'm coming from. Anyway, here's the rest of the chat:

quote: Impaler-If Hive doesn't attack our units and either sends 60credits or signs a treaty we will return our forces to Atlantis Me-? Impaler-so 60creds and truce Or signing a treaty Me-you mean you've launched a punitive expedition already? wth is that? Imp-No Me-ah, ok Imp-we haven't attacked any Hive units, though we easily could have. If the hive simply moves its units North, we will move ours S. But if the units that are within range of Hive attacks are attacked, then we will liekly make retaliatory strikes. Me-ok, I see. Thanks for clarifying that. Imp-Ok Me-that sounds fairly resonable to me Arnelos-ok, taking off...will post in the Hive forum me-k Imp-Would it also be aggreeable to make those 2 islands and angel territory a neutral zone Me-So angel territory and te other island becomes a neutral zone. Impaler-hopefully at some future point we can cooperate to jointly conquer the Angels and divide their territory between us. This would boost the power of both factions quite a bit me-I know. The angels have been pestering us for too long. Hmmm, that sounds pretty freaking good if you ask me. Impaler-Our forces are specialized for amphibious attack and would be quite effective vs. the angels with Hive Air power support Me-This is sounding better and better. CYcon and Hive vs. the Angels. Imp-a roughly 50/50 split of the territory along a N/S running line would give us each some monsoon jungle too. of course, the resulting border could be a flashpoint if relations remain weak Me-This invasion, for a public apology on and compensation for the CP Disaster? Imp-If we are going for a Coop Victory then this becomes a more likely scenario. I don't think CyCon would be able to commit to the Joint Angel war unless we were in a pact with the Hive. that would give us sufficient reassurances to commit all our military to the effort and allow us to focus on Econ. Improvement in our core territory. Likewise the Hive could end the angel nuisance with a much smaller military committment. and cement good relations with CYCon Me- what I'm worried about is that some of your faction, if they had to choose, would pick to invade us rather than the Angels. Imp-we have never at any time entertained that notion. its utterly illogical consdering you vastly superior production capacity, our extended supply lines and your SP's. not to mention we have too many bureacracy drones as is. Me-Ok. Imp-do many in the Hive believe we actually intend to attack you. Have you forgotten you have perimeter defenses on all your base? me-well, we've been watching the Peace/Cycon war closely and some of us didn't like that it was getting closer and closer to our shores Imp-and an airforce that could sinke anything that gets close to your mainland. as we said that's cause peace has bases there. what do you expect if you didn't want to war moving towards you then why are you helping the pirates to take conself57? Me-sorry, I honestly don't care. so long as we can do our own thing, then cycon can do whatever you guys want imp-we are fine with the Hive doing its thing, we just wish we knew what that was. me-not about the conshelf57 stuff...the war coming to our lands. imp-seriously look at the make up of our forces. 1/2 of its is cruisers that cant touch hive bases. It's completely specialized at taking out the pirates. surely you must realize that a CyCon attack on Hive lands would be suicidal for us. me-hmmm....never thought about it like that. I don't know if the rest of the Hvie knows about this. imp-you have plasma armor and Perim. Def. that's Def. of 6. Me. Ok here's what I'll do. I like your plan about compensation for the CP disaster so I'll try and convince Comrade Arnelos to support it Imp-better than the attack rating of any cycon unit. Ok. I will move to have all cycon units retreated s.ward. Imp-I think i have a good chance of having that done if we aren't attacked any further and we see a reparation or treaty sent to us me-hopefully we can avoid this whole mess, pay you guys back for messing up, and hopefully kill off the angels Imp-treaty commerce would be an acceptable substitute for the 60creds, I believe. both wouldbe even better. If I had both, I'm sure I can get the rest of cycon to back down. Me-I agree. Both of our economies would benefit from that one. Imp=and pact would be ideal. Planetary governorship elections are in 10yrs. me-Ah! I get it. Imp-if we cooperate we can get the Hive as new gov. Me-In return, the CyCon would get...? Imp-if the hive were friendly with us we could help you out there as we did in the last election. Perhaps a technology, or intelligence agreement. Me-I like the sound of this....but I have to talk with the rest of the hive first. Imp-Intellectual integrity for us to buidl the CDF? You sound as if you haven't heard it. I mentioned all this in my proposal. Me-I didn't get wind of this, but like I said, I can only access Apolyton on Mon, Wed, and Fri Imp-is the full message I sent posted on the Hive forum? oh you haven't accessed the Hive forum? Me-It might be buried in all the spam, I'll go check. Imp- k, hope we can get some movement on this issue. One last thing... Me-k Imp-we cyborgs have long suspected the drones are just being run by buster as a one man show. do you have any indication as to them being an active team? Me-not too sure. Hong Hu communicates with the Drones Imp-I have only seen 1 drone ever post on the main forum and their quite silent diplomatically. ok and another thing. Me-k Imp-was our unification with the University a major reason for the Hives change in opinion towards us? many suspect that your simply jealous of that unification and our successful war. As those 2 things significantly increased our power.perhaps you felt the game was already in te bag for you with your excellent early game building and these things threw your plans off? Me-well....we WERE concerned. Lots of us in our forum were kind of scared that you wanted to take over planet for yourselves and saw us as the obvious faciton next to get rid of Imp-why the hive next? surely the stupid ai's would be the next logical targets as their closer to us and much stupider even then the drones would be a better target due to not having perimeter def. Me-partly because AI is stupid, you guys could easily defend against their inept attacks. lots of us just want to build and were paranoid when you guys started attacking PEACE Imp-we attacked peace because they were a soft and rich target right next door. they had nothing but single scout patrols in all their bases when we attacked. so the Gains far outweighed the risks Me-lol, that's wha ta lot of hivers think of ourselves. Imp-why Me-we don't see ourselves as a 'powerhouse' or anything like that. Imp=well you obviously are, haven't you looked at the power graph? your only rival is the drones. Me-lol, well...your actions really shocked the heck out of us. Imp-the war on peace you mean. we told you about that before we even started. which is one of the reasons we were particularly offended by you support for them.we thought we had an agreement, votes for infor and you stay neutral me-personally, i was rather surprised in how fast you took 'em over Imp=yes we did do a nice job didn't we. they really set themselves up though. no defenses at all.it was nearly a decade between when we broke pact and we attacked. Me-lol, crap, gotta go to a different work station, k. Imp-in all that time they did nothing. Me-ok, sorry man. I have to go switch workstations. I'll post a message with your proposal and start getting everyone on board. Hopefully i can convince the other Hivers. Nice talking man, I hope we can resolve this.

Sorry that I mentioned you first, Comrade Arnelos, but you were the only one whom I could think of that talked with Function Impaler. I figured since you two spoke, that would make it more believable.

And to Comrade HongHu, I'm sorry if I shifted the burden towards you, but you do speak with the drones rather frequently. His sapping of info didn't work though.

As said before, i apologize if I overstepped my bounds.

	16-03-2004 14:39									#370
	Got spare money?

Looks ok to me... but who cares really now? The CyCon have no chance to act on the information they get untill its too late.

Personally, I'd prefer not to go to war, but from a strategy sense, we really have to, and I'm sure they are expecting it anyway...

-Jam

	17-03-2004 06:50									#371
	Put an end to popups!

What is this (Posted in Ambassador Announcements) Voy forum?

quote: GeoModder [Europe] Prince au Port Jan 2004 time: 02:44 [ACDG Planet University of Technology] [ACDG The Cybernetic Consciousness] [Alpha Centauri Democracy Game] [Alpha Centauri PBEM] 16-03-2004 20:28 | profile | mail | pm | search | buddy | icq edit | quote link | report | ip <http://207.44.245.200/civ2/images/site/blank.gif> Support Apolyton This message to let Hive now that a diplomatic message is posted in the Voy forum. __________________

Mead

	17-03-2004 06:58									#372
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From Impaler of CC:

quote: Greating Arnelos I wished to send you a follow up message to our earlier conversation we had. I was hoping for a bit more insight into the Hives opinion and likly course of actions. I have noticed in the past that the Hive dosen't seem to like letting others know what its thinking. For example say your debating between doing A or B. Cycon sees nothing wrong with telling other factions "We are debating between doing A or B, but if you Do C we will definatly do B, but if you do D we will reciprocate we A". I would like to get a similar kind of take on what your debating now and have debated in the resent past. This kind of information can realy help us avoid messes like the one we are in now. Resent messages from the Hive seem to indicate that our elimination of the Peace ship was seen as a hostile action that would force a war between us. What ever the Hives reasoning for that might be it was not a position anyone made clear to us before said action was taken and thus the Hive missed any oportunity to affect the desision. When Cycon debated the topic we had 4 choices A - attack just the Pirates, B - attack the Hives units and the Pirates, C - attack only the Hive, D - attack no one. Support was 4 for A and 1 for each of the others. As you can see their is no major desire for war with the Hive, yet I am shure that will change if our military forces are attacked. If you could provide a similar view of the Hives opinion towards us it would help significantly as we will be able to avoid actions that the Hive finds intolerable as it seems our atempts to calculate what the Hive would find acceptable have not meet with much success so far. Our position is quite clear, if the Hive attacks our units we will counter attack and begin a miltary build up. By the way if the Drones are supplying you with acurate inteligence you could see that we focused on Economic build up rather then war so I presume they deny you this information to agitate your fears for their own purposes. If the Hive simply retreats its forces we like wise retreat ours and the Vendetta will turn cold. If the Hive sends reperations of 60 Credits and a Truce or an offer of Treaty the Conciousness will forgive the destruction of the Pod and accept the offer provided no attacks were made upon us.

I *really* don't have time to respond at the moment since I'm in the middle of some rather major foreign policy discussions and playing the turn for the Civ3 ISDG Team. I'll get to this later this evening, I hope.

That said, commentary from the team here between now and then on whether it's even WORTH responding to this (or what the response should be) is welcome.

	17-03-2004 13:39									#373
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quote: By the way if the Drones are supplying you with acurate inteligence you could see that we focused on Economic build up rather then war so I presume they deny you this information to agitate your fears for their own purposes.

See! The evil Drones are manipulating us, and still you will not see this. They will wait untill we have our airforce in CyUni territory, and then strike!

We have no chance!

-Jam

	17-03-2004 21:17									#374
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Ambassador Arnelos can respond in due time, we’re in no hurry to improve relations with the CyCon. I will issue a formal reply to the whole demand for reparations, which we will not give.

	17-03-2004 21:20									#375
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Reply to the CyCon:

quote: If the Hive sends reperations of 60 Credits and a Truce or an offer of Treaty the Conciousness will forgive the destruction of the Pod and accept the offer provided no attacks were made upon us.

The Human Hive officially states that we shall not pay any reparations to the CyCon. We are willing to work toward peace but we do not feel obligated to compensate the CyCon for the loss of a colony pod which we do not even recognize as their. If the CyCon wishes to offer a more reasonable compromise, but let this be the end of the reparations discussion.

Voltaire
Chairman of the Central Continuing Committee of the People of the Human Hive

	17-03-2004 21:21									#376
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Someone check that over and see if it is fine to send before I go ahead with it.

Thanks

	17-03-2004 21:42									#377
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Nononono!

Say that we accept it, and they can expect the ecs next turn, but we don't have enough now.

Then they move thier cruiser home as promised, and we smack them when they do not expect it.

If you really HAVE to go to war with the CyCon, then its best to be extra nice to them first.

Please don't waste all my hard work in the general forum.

-Jam

	17-03-2004 23:36									#378
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I think Jamski has a point there. I support his version of the reply, for it lets us strike when they expect it least.

	18-03-2004 00:10									#379
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They may even send 60 ecs to PEACE this way for no expenditure on our part

-Jam

	18-03-2004 01:41									#380
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I agree with Chairman's reply. We are going to attack Uni THIS turn. There is no point to pretend extra nicely. In their turn they will see all that they need to see and they will not send any ecs to PEACE. I would rather we don't add insult to enjury for them. If we do what Jamski said a lot of CCs will feel cheated, not to say they will feel cheated anyway.

	18-03-2004 02:00									#381
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PM between Me and Maniac. Not intended to represent the team or anything. Rather it is kind of a personal communication between two players, but I thought I should post it here for all to see in case there might be any leak of information or things like that.

quote: Maniac, I'm really sorry to hear that. I can understand your frustration about the internal affairs. I'm not Kody or you but I do have the same feeling. When we had the shaddow ministry, Kody and I enjoyed a very short period of relatively being free from having to spend countless hours to explain stuff but as you know that only lasted for two turns I think. As for the Diplomacy stuff, I suppose it in a large degree is my fault. Perhaps I've "roleplayed" it too much. Please understand though, that non of those are anything personal. Even the "inventing fictitious reasons" part. Not sure if it makes you feel better if I say that we actually do not "believe the bullshit and lies" we put out in RL, we are simply play it since we are the Hive. This being a team game would mean there will be teams who win or lose. But I really don't want to see anybody's feeling being hurt by the game. You know me, I certainly don't feel any amusement by "slaughtering" people. You know that I actually tried so hard that we can win this together. And I also tried to make the game fairer to everybody by kind of leaking Hive info to you before your peace war and suggesting you and uni and peace pact together. I was actually happy to see the merge of CPU even thought that might have been the mark when CC and Hive were formally driven apart. Last thing I would like to say is that I am really impressed with the sharp insight and good skills you presented in this game. I really hope that you can stay. There are only these few people who are crucial to the game and make the game a worthy experience to all and you are one of them. I would really really miss you if you really leave us. Please stay. Hong

	18-03-2004 02:01									#382
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quote: Originally posted by Frankychan And to Comrade HongHu, I'm sorry if I shifted the burden towards you, but you do speak with the drones rather frequently. His sapping of info didn't work though.

No problem there Comrade Frankychan. He was obviously trying to get some info about Drones from you and you fend him off well.

	18-03-2004 06:05									#383
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Thank you Comrade HongHu!

quote: 1> I've grown tired of discussing Internal Affairs orders. I guess you could consider me more or less the Kody of CPU, checking what former orders or credit investments are most cost-efficient and give the biggest return etc. Since around MY 2150 I have been increasingly succesful in making my ideas state policy. However unlike Kody who I assume more or less had carte blanche to do whatever he wanted without much discussion, CPU has a democracy, meaning about everything is discussed. This means I had to spend hours each year explaining to other cyborgs why their IAF proposals are not cost-efficient. Without any use of course, because the year after they would again make IAF suggestions that for any moderately experienced SMACer would look inefficient at first sight. This gets really boring after a while.

This is why running Police State is always better.

Furthermore, while Comrade Jamski's idea is interesting, I would have to agree with Comrade Chairman and Comrade HongHu in that we shouldn't even fake into giving them reparations. If they are expecting us to give them 60creds in return for them moving their ships away, they aren't going to move their ships until they get the creds...so that proposal is moot.

Since Function Maniac (assumes) knows that we are going to smash them, why don't we just oblige and eliminate CPU...but watch out for the Drones.

Even though they have proven themselves honorable, there's a first time for everything.

	18-03-2004 06:30									#384
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quote: Originally posted by Frankychan *** I would have to agree with Comrade Chairman and Comrade HongHu in that we shouldn't even fake into giving them reparations. If they are expecting us to give them 60creds in return for them moving their ships away, they aren't going to move their ships until they get the creds...so that proposal is moot. ***

What!?

We would pay CyCon to move their away from us now?

Please say it isn't so.

There is little that renders more fun than destroying ships with airpower.

We need them close to our needlejets and choppers, not further away.


Mead

	18-03-2004 06:46									#385
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Jamski's proposal is to fake them into moving their ships away in exchange for reimbursement of the CP. Since they pretty much know that the Hive hammer is going to fall...we shouldn't even bother with deception now.

	18-03-2004 07:32									#386
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quote: Originally posted by Frankychan Jamski's proposal is to fake them into moving their ships away in exchange for reimbursement of the CP. Since they pretty much know that the Hive hammer is going to fall...we shouldn't even bother with deception now.

I just looked at the new turn.

The cruiser that killed the Peace schooner is within range of our needlejet in New Moscow. I think that should be our opening shot.


Mead

	18-03-2004 07:34									#387
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Hmmm, tempting.

Although we should talk about this with the CMC.

Would that be the opening shot of the Hive/CPU war? Additionally, how does this effect our plans with the Drones....since they obviously have a hunch that war with the Hive means war with the Drones.

	18-03-2004 07:36									#388
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quote: Originally posted by Frankychan Hmmm, tempting. Although we should talk about this with the CMC. Would that be the opening shot of the Hive/CPU war? Additionally, how does this effect our plans with the Drones....since they obviously have a hunch that war with the Hive means war with the Drones.

The invasion of the University has already begun, we're at war with the CPU, there is no going back.

	18-03-2004 08:06									#389
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Yay!

Where are the updates?

	18-03-2004 08:42									#390
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quote: Originally posted by Frankychan Yay! Where are the updates?

Look in Turn 2160 Thread


Mead