03-02-2004 03:07									#241
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Shall we issue a joint declaration of war with the Drones against the CyCon and Uni?

Poll?

-Jam

	03-02-2004 03:45									#242
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I really do not see the necessity of declaring war, I suggest that we let them do it, we end up looking better if we take that approach.

	03-02-2004 03:53									#243
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as allways, the allmighty chairman is right....

	03-02-2004 03:57									#244
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quote: Originally posted by t_ras as allways, the allmighty chairman is right....

Yay!

Things will really be getting interesting since we’re entering the showdown phase of the game. For the time being I think it is in our best interests to keep this war Cold since we are not ready for an invasion of the CyCon nor are our defenses up. Hence cancel the pact, but keep the tone friendly for the time being, or at least attempt to.

	03-02-2004 04:03									#245
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Nah, WE look better if we rush to the aid of the poor poor Pirates.

But cancel the pact for sure, yeah.

-Jam

	03-02-2004 06:12									#246
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Comrades,

I cannot access the Hive-Drone embassy. All I see is the recreation commons......what's up with that?

	03-02-2004 06:34									#247
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quote: Originally posted by Voltaire Yay! Things will really be getting interesting since we?re entering the showdown phase of the game. For the time being I think it is in our best interests to keep this war Cold since we are not ready for an invasion of the CyCon nor are our defenses up. Hence cancel the pact, but keep the tone friendly for the time being, or at least attempt to.

Yes.

Let's tell them that we are worried about their actions so we do not want them to be able to be in Pact right now, but we are willing to work with them.

They will probably see right through it, but it probably give us and the Drones more time to prepare.


Mead

	03-02-2004 09:58									#248
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quote: Originally posted by Frankychan Comrades, I cannot access the Hive-Drone embassy. All I see is the recreation commons......what's up with that?

I will contact buster about this tomorrow.

	03-02-2004 10:00									#249
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These are just in from Maniac:

quote: PUT-CC Unification Hi Voltaire, Jamski and HongHu, As we have officially announced, the Consciousness and PUT have unified and merged into one faction. As Archaic has no time anymore to be involved in the ACDG, this effectively means the Consciousness will play with PUT as well. This also means that if a personal vendetta against Archaic was a reason in the past to attack PUT, this in no longer the case. We have noticed this year that besides stealing Environmental Economics a while back, Foreman buster of the Drones has attacked a PUT base and stolen Secrets of the Human Brain and Neural Grafting. If buster doesn't stop immediately with his offensive actions, we will sadly be forced to throw all the combined CPU resources into a war against him. In this hopefully avoidable scenario of a full-scale war, we were wondering about the Hive reaction. In the past, HongHu has said to Drogue that the Hive would remain neutral in a Drone-Consciousness war. Is that still the case? Would you remain neutral, or choose sides in favour of one party? A few other points: I as PUT turnplayer have offered a pre-accepted pact to the Hive btw. Hopefully you will accept it for the many benefits it gives to both of us. And as our labs production has about quadrupled, we are now able to research techs relatively fast, making us a better trading partner than before (and a better one than the Drones). Therefore I ask: are you again interested in tech trading? I hope to hear from you soon! Mani Alpha-3 Prime Function of the Cybernetic Consciousness Fatherboard of the Central Processing Unit

quote: So far the official message... So far the official message... From Jamski in the 3D thread: quote: Because if CyUni now PWN the PEACE, then the Drones and Hive will be forced into an alliance to END THE WORLD!!!! You have formed a CyUni superpower that is currently eating another faction. Right before the PEACE-CC war, which you helped us start btw, you announce you are not interested at that point in signing a permapact. You are hardly interested in trading with us. Yet we see a strong cooperation between the Hive and Drones. And you're also considering to trade techs (or have traded?) with PEACE instead of us, while we told you we would not appreciate that. What are we supposed to think?? That you have signed a permapact with the Drones and will leave us in the dark. As a consequence and as a defensive measure we seek closer contact to PUT which finally resulted in the current unification. But we have no hostile intentions at all towards you. We have ALWAYS wanted to win this game together with you. So the choice lies with the Hive. Do you want to win this game together with the colourless buster, who Jamski describes as bossy, and the Drone faction who doesn't roleplay at all? Or do you want to win this game with the Consciousness, who together with the Hive has given live to the roleplay of this game, and who right from the beginning of this game expressed their friendship to you? The choice is yours, my friends. I know there have been quite a few troubles and misunderstandings between our two factions the last month, and relations seem to have declined. But I honestly don't have a clue what we have done wrong to you. Could I please ask what is the exact cause of this? If it's about some cyborgs supporting a removal of Kody from the ACDG, in case you didn't know, I've been told by a reliable person that Kody wanted to be banned from the ACDG. He conjured up the story that he supposedly was able to access other fora, so others would demand his removal. He spent way too much time at the ACDG, and therefore needed to leave, but feared that his own willpower wouldn't suffice. Hence he made up the story. This means the Hive would actually do Kody a favour if you stopped asking for his return. If it's about laurentius, I've heard that he apparently pissed off some Hiveans, especially Voltaire. However I or anyone else at the Consciousness have no clue to who laurentius is talking, and what he is talking about. He doesn't tell us these things. So anything he may have said, is just his personal and individual action and opinion. You can hardly hold the Consciousness responsible for something one member does without the rest knowing anything about it. If he insulted you some way, I would like to offer my apology in his place. If it's about the "Jamski Affair", as we call it, Jamski, you of all people should know that I or any other cyborg didn't acquire information in any illegal way, as Tassadar and Voltaire seem to have thought. Instead the only reason we kept silent was to protect you. We had your best interest in mind, even when Hive-CC relations suffered as a consequence. Just like when a while before that we had HongHu's best interest in mind, when she was being investigated by Tassadar. Guys, I really don't want us to end this game in hostility. We started this so promising. Do you really want such misunderstandings come between us? Friendly greetings, Maniac

	03-02-2004 10:08									#250
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My opinion is we should try to maintain a good relationship with the CCs until the last minute. The Drones are supposed to give us the missle prototype the next turn. If in case (although unlikely) they turn their back on us we will have another hand.

So try stall the CCs without committing anything nor tipping them off. Just say we are having some heated discussions. Tell them that the Hive has long viewed CC to be our friends and the uni to be our potential enemies so this CC uni alliance is unsettling to some of us.

If Jamski could draft something up tomorrow would you please share it with us before you send it to them?

	03-02-2004 10:11									#251
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As for whether we should downgrade the pact to a treaty in the next turn I'm still uncertain. The drawback of not doing this would be that they can see our entering the war mode. In fact the CC uni alliance is a perfect excuse for us to do so. So I'm leaning toward of changing the pact to a treaty. But this would need a very carefully worded official message to them so that they won't be tipped off or get unrationally mad against us.

	03-02-2004 10:18									#252
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Thanks for the double-postings.

Anyway, I'll save my comments concerning this until I read up on the Hive-Drone embassy. But it sounds like they're playing to our sympathy...........the CYBORGS are playing to Hive sympathy!

That's irony worthy of the drama.

	03-02-2004 10:25									#253
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Of course we should try and maintain good standing with the CyCon. That's a given. What we can tell them is that the combination of Comrade Kody, laurentius, and Comrade Jamski made us think that they had it "in" for us and decided that we should back off from them.

But since Maniac has given us the reassurance that this is not the case, we will slowly try to warm our relations. Additionally, we should ask the Drones what they are thinking.

	03-02-2004 11:05									#254
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Frankly, with the world pacted away into Drones-Hive-Peace and Cycon-Uni, I'm beginning to think we should just screw all pretenses of being honorable.

We should play CyCon to our advantage, befriend them, warm up to them, stay 'good friends' with them, and dump them in the cold the moment we are ready to destroy them.

Give them hollow insuraces of neutrality with the Drones in a Cycon-Drone war. Lie about our secret talks with PEACE. Then, when we are ready to strike, make a demand for the return of PEACE land. When they refuse, we unleash our hordes of troops...

	03-02-2004 12:08									#255
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While I would also agree with your stance, Comrade Octavian X, we have to remember that we are all on the Apolyton playground where we should at least try to play nice.

But in other circumstances (or if things get out of hand) I would think that it would be an "anything goes" policy.

	03-02-2004 14:04									#256
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We know now that we are perma-pacted with the Drones, and that CyUni will be our opponents.

Anything goes, yep This will end in war, and we should be the ones to start it. Why? Because then we can fight on their soil, not on ours

-Jam

	03-02-2004 19:00									#257
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i'm not in ACDG too much, could some one explain to me why arn't we dropping the drones for CC?

i dont say that should be done, i just want to hear rational reasons for any desition (which does not include "we're very ungry wwith them").

thanks ahead for explnation...

	03-02-2004 21:15									#258
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t-ras, the biggest reason I see that we should stick with the Drones instead of the CCs is that we are located in the same land, the Drones have the best military techs and a higher production ability than the CCs, and that the CCs are pacted with the univ whom we know will be gone in a few turns. We should try to foster their false impression that they are the most powerful faction in the planet with their aggression against the PEACE and alliance with the univ. (I've subtly hinted to them that the Hive is a shattered place and they will not view us as a big threat. ) Let it be a surprise to them when univ bases are spliced by the Hive and the Drones. (This is why I wanted to try to keep the war preparation as secret as we can manage.)

The reason why I think we should try to be honorable is that this will make futher cooperation (in this game and other games) with anybody easier for people won't view you as the unreliable ones.

	03-02-2004 21:55									#259
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quote: Originally posted by Frankychan Thanks for the double-postings.

Multiple you mean.

quote: Anyway, I'll save my comments concerning this until I read up on the Hive-Drone embassy.

I've PMed buster. Will let you know when he responds.

quote: it sounds like they're playing to our sympathy...........the CYBORGS are playing to Hive sympathy! That's irony worthy of the drama.

They sent these PMs after they looked at the PUT's turn. They saw that we've got DAP and MMI and the cloudbase academy. That's why they wanted to stay at the good side of us I reckon. If they've learnt that we are going to war, they didn't show it. In fact they may be trying to smoosh us so that we won't know that they already know what we don't want them to know.

	04-02-2004 03:31									#260
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I PMed Maniac today in answer to his question of who's side we would join if CyUni invaded the Drones.

I said

"We'd help the CyUni, of course, to get our revenge on those back-stabbing Drones!"

Is this sort of deliberate misinformation good, or what ?

-Jam

	04-02-2004 05:32									#261
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I like being honorable.

I like doing what I agree to do.

The Drones have given us no reason to turn our back on them.

I suspect that CyCon is trying the same tactics with the Drones.

CyCon is trying to split the Hive/Drone alliance.

If the Hive Drone alliance stands then CyCon will lose.

The only way CyCon will win this war is if they ally with one of us.

CyCon would like nothing better than to see us and the Drones go to war and then pick up the pieces.

I think we should openly share all communications that we receive and send to CyCon with the Drones. We should ask the Drones to share all the communications that they have had with CyCon.

I am more than prepared to stick with the Drones until the end. I hope they feel the same way.

I will, of course, keep my eyes and ears open to any indication that they may turn on us.

If they did betray us I would give them no quarter and fight until either they or we were dead. I would expect no less than the same from them. Right now, Buster's reputation is that he honors the commitments he makes. He must realize that although it takes a long while to get a good reputation, its takes only an instant to lose it. I do not think he will betray us.


Mead

	04-02-2004 07:20									#262
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I think you got that wrong, mead.

Of course we will honour the permapact with the drones, but right now we have to hide our intensions towards the new CyCon/Uni union.

If we openly discuss helping the drones in the upcoming war, the CyCon won´t wait to invade us, which would be our end right now.

	04-02-2004 08:17									#263
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Though we should when possible be honorable and truthful in our dealings with others, we must not be foolish. The situation in which we find ourselves now does not leave room for idealism, we will have to get our hands dirty and attempt manipulation, for our enemies will do so with us.

Now we should recall that truth can often be just as useful as a lie, but prudence should guide our diplomatic dealings with the non-permipact members.

	04-02-2004 08:30									#264
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quote: Originally posted by Voltaire Though we should when possible be honorable and truthful in our dealings with others, we must not be foolish. The situation in which we find ourselves now does not leave room for idealism, we will have to get our hands dirty and attempt manipulation, for our enemies will do so with us. Now we should recall that truth can often be just as useful as a lie, but prudence should guide our diplomatic dealings with the non-permipact members.

I do not object to misleading our non perma pact members.

I also do not fail to keep a watchful eye over Drone military deployments and posturing.
However, until we get an indication otherwise, I think we should plan on winning this war with the Drones as our allies.

I think we should share the CyCon Communications with the Drones, and vice versa.

Of course, neither us nor the Drones have to tell the CyCon/Uni evil alliance that we are sharing our messages with each other.

Let the Cycon/Uni think that they have a chance of success of splitting the Hive/Drone perma pact. That may give us more time to prepare the end to this game.



Mead

	04-02-2004 08:52									#265
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quote: Originally posted by Mead I like being honorable.

In addition to being a nice guy, and being right thing to do, being a decent player and being known as a decent player is far more valuable in the long term, than the momentary gain of betraying a confidence.

***

quote: I think we should openly share all communications that we receive and send to CyCon with the Drones. We should ask the Drones to share all the communications that they have had with CyCon.

I have to be more careful in what I say and how I say it.

By openly, I mean openly with the Drones. NOT openly with the the CyCon/Uni Axis Of Evil (AOE).

We should be open with our perma-pact ally. We should let the CyCon/Uni AOE guess (or be misled).

I should be more careful in what/how I say things.


Mead

PS

I see no need, at this time, to inform the Pirates of any misinformation program that we may set in place against the AOE. If pressed heavily by the Pirates for an answer (they probably won't) we should tell them, not to worry and that the Hive has assured their safety. the Drones should say the same (that the Drones have assured their safety).

	04-02-2004 09:24									#266
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Believe me, normally I'd support as honorable stance as possible. However, we already know what will happen in the future: War against CyUni, with the Drones fighting by our side.

If the world hadn't divided itself up as it has, I would advocate an honorable diplomacy. However, when the future is as predictible as it is now, being honorable toward the enemy is not possible.

	04-02-2004 09:36									#267
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quote: Originally posted by Octavian X Believe me, normally I'd support as honorable stance as possible. However, we already know what will happen in the future: War against CyUni, with the Drones fighting by our side. If the world hadn't divided itself up as it has, I would advocate an honorable diplomacy. However, when the future is as predictible as it is now, being honorable toward the enemy is not possible.

Be honorable to the Drones.

Be elusive to the AOE (Axis Of Evil)

It looks like the AOE (CyCon and Uni) have made a Perma (super) Pact. We, the Drones and Us, with the Pirates, if they live, helping out resisting this war of aggression, must oppose them.

Mead


PS


Am I sounding little, too, theatrical?

	04-02-2004 17:09									#268
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quote: Am I sounding little, too, theatrical?

No but you are using, commas, oddly

I see no reason why we shouldn't lie to the CyUni though. I sent a PM to Maniac today explaining how the Drones cheated us in a tech deal, and how people in the Hive are talking about war with the Drones. This gives us a cover if we start buildng up troops.

-Jam

	04-02-2004 20:34									#269
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I think everybody is having the same idea here. That we should be open to the Drones and not too open with the CCs.

Mead, we have been pretty open with the Drones. When I was the CC embassador about all communications are posted to the Drones Embassy. If Jamski would post his messages to the CCs in this forum, I wouldn't mind to copy them to the Drones if it is desired.

Jamski, I would appreciate very much if you post all communications you sent to the CCs here, if you don't mind.

	04-02-2004 22:41									#270
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Ok. I will do.

* Jamski opens "sent messages"

-Jam