21-10-2003 04:40									#1
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I don't get why couples have more than 2 children in this age of surging populations, especially in 3rd world countries. We are choking in our own wastes. If we want everyone on earth to have US/European level quality of life we would have to reduce our population to 1 billion. I would like to ge it down to 500 million people.

	21-10-2003 04:42									#2
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In third world countries people have more then 2 children so that the family can have enough working bodies to get by.

	21-10-2003 04:49									#3
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quote: Originally posted by Odin I don't get why couples have more than 2 children in this age of surging populations, especially in 3rd world countries. We are choking in our own wastes. If we want everyone on earth to have US/European level quality of life we would have to reduce our population to 1 billion. I would like to ge it down to 500 million people.

I reccomend you start this yourself and make up for them by sterilizing yourself.

	21-10-2003 04:56									#4
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quote: Originally posted by Shi Huangdi I reccomend you start this yourself and make up for them by sterilizing yourself.

I was never planning to have kids. They are too expensive and I have a lot of genetic problems (obesity, ADHD, risk of Adult Diabetes) that I don't want to pass on.

	21-10-2003 05:05									#5
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Not to mention the waste of energy in producing kids

	21-10-2003 05:09									#6
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Obesity and ADHD?

Man that must be funny...

	21-10-2003 06:02									#7
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well many educated americans need to have more than 2 children. We will soon be overwhelmed by stupid people.

	21-10-2003 07:24									#8
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quote: Originally posted by Odin I don't get why couples have more than 2 children in this age of surging populations, especially in 3rd world countries. We are choking in our own wastes. If we want everyone on earth to have US/European level quality of life we would have to reduce our population to 1 billion. I would like to ge it down to 500 million people.

its all in the third world. infact europe is going to tank itself in pensions because it has no work force left to support its progressive kind hearted welfare state.

the main problem as I see it is we take a population of a 1000 starving ppl and through our immense kindness and aid make it a starving population of 10 000 w/ a ruthless overlord attached on the end.

and of course there's India. something needs to be done about them too.

	21-10-2003 07:56									#9
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quote: well many educated americans need to have more than 2 children. We will soon be overwhelmed by stupid people.

I can see it now, patriotic posters like in the war:

"If you're smart, GET PREGNANT! It's the American Way!"
"Hey, Egghead! Go Screw A Hot Babe Instead of Doing Calculus!"
"STUPID CASHBACKS -- IQ Under 110? Don't Screw, Get a Hefty Check from the Government!"

	21-10-2003 07:59									#10
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Yeah, the US needs some sort of incentive for imigrants or mass child bearing its vastly underpopulated. Heck the whole planet is, people just need do migrate to where the food is.

	21-10-2003 07:59									#11
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quote: Originally posted by mrmitchell I can see it now, patriotic posters like in the war: "If you're smart, GET PREGNANT! It's the American Way!" "Hey, Egghead! Go Screw A Hot Babe Instead of Doing Calculus!" "STUPID CASHBACKS -- IQ Under 110? Don't Screw, Get a Hefty Check from the Government!"

reminds me of darwin. the most selected for trait in humanity is poverty. seems weird.

	21-10-2003 09:51									#12
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quote: I reccomend you start this yourself and make up for them by sterilizing yourself.

Let all the Catholics who don't mind having big families keep doing so.

As for intelligence, who ever said intelligence was inherited?

Or are you just using most excellent sarcasm Mr. Mitchell?

	21-10-2003 09:56									#13
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quote: I reccomend you start this yourself and make up for them by sterilizing yourself.

Why stop there?

	21-10-2003 09:58									#14
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Well, if he wants to start sterilising other people, go ahead.

Although you might want to ask first.

	21-10-2003 10:02									#15
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Retroactive abortion?

	21-10-2003 10:11									#16
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If you can kill 'em inside the womb, why not afterwards?

	21-10-2003 10:32									#17
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Well before this thread devolves, predictably, into a flame-fest I'd like to say this:

One thing people keep messing-up in their minds is what "population control" really is. How things are worded does matter, and in this case, a poor choice of words was used.

Police officers settling a domestic disturbance; Soldiers patrolling the streets of a recently occupied city; Laws written to dictate what people can and cannot do. These are examples of Population Control. Population Growth Control is better terminology for describing efforts to curb rapid, unsustainable increases in population.

PGC doesn't have to be negative. While education into sexual health and family planning can bring many benefits to many people, simple education and "family health clinics" alone can't solve the problems of over-population in areas where the only way to combat starvation and high mortality rates is to have as many children as you can. On the issue of abortions, my feeling is they're totally unnecessary outside of life-threatening situations, rape, or incest (strengthening genetic flaws shared by relatives in their progeny).

I don't have any easy answers...well, actually I do, but let's not roam into idealistic fantasyland...however there are ways out of the mess we're in without resorting to thirtieth-trimester abortions and such...

	21-10-2003 10:40									#18
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quote: curb rapid, unsustainable increases in population.

How would you define unsustainable in terms of % increase in population?

	21-10-2003 10:49									#19
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quote: Originally posted by Ben Kenobi How would you define unsustainable in terms of % increase in population?

If there's a region or country that simply does not have access to sufficient amounts of food to feed its people or medicines to keep them alive, then it's an unsustainable population. Don't know how one would go about converting that into a % increase but by "sustainable" I mean keeping the population alive longer than 30 years without drowning them in a sea of dead babies (starvation and poor medical access raising their heads).

Like I said, no easy answers.

	21-10-2003 12:46									#20
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quote: Originally posted by Odin I don't get why couples have more than 2 children in this age of surging populations, especially in 3rd world countries. We are choking in our own wastes. If we want everyone on earth to have US/European level quality of life we would have to reduce our population to 1 billion. I would like to ge it down to 500 million people.

do you have anything to back this up with?

at all?

Jon Miller

	21-10-2003 13:04									#21
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Estimates regarding how great a Human population Earth can comfortably sustain range anywhere from 2.000.000.000 to 8.000.000.000 on average. I think we could support a large number of people; it's just the distribution and management of our resources that's causing us problems. Some believe smaller numbers are more appropriate. Plenty of people have different ways of determining their ideal population numbers using the same raw data.

At least they're all looking for answers. Only time can tell who's right. Or Plague, Pestulance, War, and Famine...

	21-10-2003 13:30									#22
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quote: Don't know how one would go about converting that into a % increase

So you like parking by the feel method. If it feels like there are too many than they need population control.

There are no countries drowning in a sea of dead babies unless you count the million that die every year in North America.

	21-10-2003 13:32									#23
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No, I parallel park by knowing where the frick my front and back bumpers are in relation to the other guy, thank you very much.

Read further posts, Ben.

	21-10-2003 13:33									#24
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And are you at all familiar with "Infant Mortality" rates?

EDIT: Oh, you're making a jab at abortions. Again I say, "Read further posts, Ben."

	21-10-2003 13:49									#25
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quote: Estimates regarding how great a Human population Earth can comfortably sustain range anywhere from 2.000.000.000 to 8.000.000.000 on average. I think we could support a large number of people; it's just the distribution and management of our resources that's causing us problems.

Well then let's clear the bottlenecks in the distribution of supplies. The amount of space that the earth can sustain assumes current rates of food productivity something that we cannot predict due to technological developments.

	21-10-2003 15:18									#26
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An interesting thing is how Malthus' theory on pop. vs. food production has played out (at least as shown in the graphic diagram in my college-level cultural geography book...maybe later I'll scan a pic and post it). He predicted there would be way more people by now than there really are; his prediction on food production appears dead on; our population is actually a good bit below our food production capactiy.

Management and distribution of resources (food and medicines). That would, coupled with intelligent family planning and education (abortions aren't all they do ), pretty much put an end to the starvation. This much is obvious...

...getting those issues handled effectively, that's the challenge.

	21-10-2003 16:14									#27
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quote: I don't get why couples have more than 2 children in this age of surging populations, especially in 3rd world countries.

With all due respect, you're not a Nigerian peasant woman. They have kids because it's economically rational to do so.

	21-10-2003 16:28									#28
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I actually aim to have 3 kids, if only because I'll need monney when I'm retired, and there aren't gonna remain a retirement system

	21-10-2003 17:01									#29
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quote: well many educated americans need to have more than 2 children. We will soon be overwhelmed by stupid people.

a study from my university says this same thing.

quote: Study: Uneducated Outbreeding Intelligentsia 2-To-1 CHICAGO—In a report with dire implications for the intellectual future of America, a University of Chicago study revealed Monday that the nation's uneducated are breeding twice as soon and twice as often as those with university diplomas. "The average member of the American underclass spawns at age 15, compared to age 30 for the average college-educated professional," study leader Kenneth Stalls said. "America's intellectual elite, as a result, is badly losing the genetic marathon, with two generations of dullards born for every one generation of cultured literates." Added Stalls: "At this rate, by the year 2100 there will be five smart people on Earth, swallowed whole by more than 12 billion mouth-breathers incapable of understanding the binary exponentiation that swamped the Earth with their like."

The University of Chicago News Office

	21-10-2003 17:04									#30
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quote: "The average member of the American underclass spawns at age 15, compared to age 30 for the average college-educated professional,"

I hope this is a joke