22-10-2003 22:43									#61
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All the Universities were I live have required courses that you have to take to get a degree. What are you talking about? The school you went to did not have any required courses??

	22-10-2003 23:18									#62
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I don't think it's possible to have everyone come out of 4 yrs of college without "glaring gaps" in their education.

I was into History, Political Science (heh), Civ and Beer. My girlfriend was into Math & Computers, with occasional forays into History, Civ and Beer.

Even if I had avoided Civ and Beer, I still think I'd be somewhat lacking in areas like Mathematics/Physics, Chemistry (I hate chem, for no apparent reason), etc. I don't really enjoy those topics. My gf's did well in things she wished to do well in, but I doubt that even she could have managed to be well-versed in all subjects in 4 years.

-Arrian

	22-10-2003 23:33									#63
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quote: Originally posted by Pekka No doctor. Masters Degree, yes? We consider Bachelors Degree a shameful failure . Just kidding with the failure thing. Besides after that I'd be like almost maybe 3 years away from that doctor .

didn't you just enroll? how the hell can you go straight to master's without having your batchelor's?

	22-10-2003 23:38									#64
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Azazel, I'll be compliting my BC in.. 3 years at most. Yes I'm studying a lot. And after that some more courses and then I'll do my thesis, and this should be completed in 5 years tops. But I'm already chosen for MD program, so I don't have to worry about the little things.

	22-10-2003 23:57									#65
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I'm not sure what the topic is. If you have no required courses at all, what degree will you get?

	23-10-2003 00:00									#66
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quote: Originally posted by Azazel didn't you just enroll? how the hell can you go straight to master's without having your batchelor's?

I believe Oxford/Cambridge gives its graduates a masters degree rather than a bachelors.

	23-10-2003 00:04									#67
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quote: Originally posted by HershOstropoler I'm not sure what the topic is. If you have no required courses at all, what degree will you get?

This puzzled me, as well.

	23-10-2003 00:07									#68
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I assume some liberal arts bachelor, but isn't that college rather than uni? Always found that US system confusing.

	23-10-2003 00:08									#69
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Yep. Batchelor's majors minors...

We don't have majors and minors in my uni.

	23-10-2003 00:13									#70
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Well we have such combined studies in some areas. Mostly for academic training of teachers - which barely exists in the US, supposedly.

Is Israel's system more along the european university model?

	23-10-2003 00:29									#71
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Yes, Academic training of teachers, and Economics+management, and Chemistry+Material Engineering ( In such a case, the person gets two degrees. ), but those are very rigid, relatively. It's not that you can have a degree in Japanese History and Physics, as the american system would imply.

	23-10-2003 00:32									#72
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quote: Originally posted by HershOstropoler I assume some liberal arts bachelor, but isn't that college rather than uni? Always found that US system confusing.

you have been exposed to americans for a few years now (on apolyton if no where else)

you would think that you would have figured it out by now

Jon Miller

	23-10-2003 00:34									#73
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I always thought that a core curriculum was important, but maybe that's because that's what I went through for my BA. 4 semesters in English, 4 semesters in Religion, 4 in Philosophy, and 4 in math and sciences. You had at least some latitude on the actual courses, however. It didn't seem like too much of a hassle, even if some were slightly wasteful of my time.

There are some classes that I think need to be taught in order to live in the modern world, but perhaps they should be taught in high school. These are classes such as personal finance (beyond home economics that are taught in junior high school).

	23-10-2003 00:35									#74
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What AS means, I think, is a set of courses that everyone would *have* to take, regardless of which undergraduate degree they were pursuing. So I, the History major and my girlfriend, the Math & CompSci double major, would both have to take "Ethics" and "People Skills" (to use Adam Smith's examples).

-Arrian

	23-10-2003 00:36									#75
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Well our law study is about 85 % required courses in the frist 6 semesters (which would be about a bachelor), there's more leeway in the last 2 semesters (about 50-70 %). But that one would be highly "required" in the US too AFAIK; at least bar accreditation requires covering the key subjects IIRC.

	23-10-2003 00:37									#76
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quote: These are classes such as personal finance (beyond home economics that are taught in junior high school).

I couldn't agree more. My highschool, incidently, had gotten rid of Home Ec by the time I got there. What I know about managing my finances is what I picked up from my parents. That's fine and all, but considering the issues this country has with personal debt (it seems), I think teaching high school kids how to budget and the basics of savings & investment would be a good idea.

-Arrian

	23-10-2003 00:39									#77
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The Law degree is 8 simesters? damn.
I get my B.A. after 6.

	23-10-2003 00:41									#78
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quote: Originally posted by Jon Miller you have been exposed to americans for a few years now (on apolyton if no where else) you would think that you would have figured it out by now

Poly!

Well I happen to talk to Americans outside of poly, and even sometimes about tertiary education, but that is in part a source of confusion, as some seem to differentiate between college and uni, some use it synonymously. And from our point of view, it is difficult to understand the purpose and structure of "college" at all.

	23-10-2003 00:43									#79
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quote: Originally posted by Azazel The Law degree is 8 simesters? damn. I get my B.A. after 6.

Yeah, but that's a master degree. We'll start bachelors next year.

Until around 1980, there wasn't even a master's degree in law here, only a doctorate.

	23-10-2003 00:45									#80
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college and university are the same here

the only difference is that a university will also give a PHD (a college won't)

please ask me if you are still confused

Jon Miller

	23-10-2003 00:46									#81
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So they are different and the same. Thanks for clearing that up, Jon.

	23-10-2003 00:48									#82
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the degrees are the same

it is just that a college won't offer a PHD

Jon Miller

	23-10-2003 00:49									#83
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And in the US, even universities are referred to generically as "college". So there is "college football" which consists mostly of university football teams.

	23-10-2003 00:49									#84
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I am pretty sure that there are different degrees offered in europe besides PHDs, if there is than there is reason for colleges

Jon Miller

	23-10-2003 00:49									#85
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quote: Originally posted by HershOstropoler Yeah, but that's a master degree. We'll start bachelors next year. Until around 1980, there wasn't even a master's degree in law here, only a doctorate.

A master's degree in 4 years?

In Israel, it takes 3.5 years ( 7 simesters ) to get an LL.B , 6 simesters to get a B.A, 8 simesters to get a B.Sc. and 5 years to get a B.Arch.

	23-10-2003 00:52									#86
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So college offers law and med degrees? I thought law and med schools were usually part of universities, not colleges - unless you refer to unis as colleges, as Dan says.

Shouldn't be so hard to understand that this can be confusing.

"I am pretty sure that there are different degrees offered in europe besides PHDs, if there is than there is reason for colleges"

Well I can't make any sense of that either.

	23-10-2003 00:52									#87
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It's clear by reading this thread that Americans go to school longer than people in many other countries.

	23-10-2003 00:55									#88
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quote: Originally posted by Azazel A master's degree in 4 years?

Old system, the new master based on the bachelor will be 10 semesters (6+4). Also that's just minimum time; most actually need 10-15 semesters. I did mine in 7, but that was so unusual that the uni, can you beleive it, didn't have a form for that!

	23-10-2003 00:56									#89
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10-15 simesters?!!!!!!!!!!!!!! People get Ph.Ds over here for such a period of time.

	23-10-2003 00:57									#90
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DanS, and how did you come to this conclusion? I'd like to point out, that in many countries we go to school longer before college. For example here it is 12 years. And THEN it's college. The level is naturally about the same, so it's not like we need to learn how to read for 12 years . We just don't call it a college at that point. So if we were straight comparing, I'd be closer to second or third year Uni/college student there. Also, our systems how long you're going to study are also different, because of different credit systems, but it's safe to say the final degrees are comparable and same.