23-10-2003 06:37									#121
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Pekka, It is a MS (Master of Science) or MA (Master of Arts), not MD, that is for medical school students.

I am planning to major in Evolutionary Biology at a very good, but small, college in northern Wisconsin that focuses on science and the humanities.

The main reason I think required courses are needed is to stop ignorance, which fuels such things as creationism, political apathy, racism, religious fundimentalism, etc.

I just wish college was payed for by taxes, high school education has become a fiscal black hole from the dumbing down of the curiculum, so now it like paying for some real education people should of gotten in high school.

	23-10-2003 07:33									#122
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USNA teaches the way people did 100 years ago. We still have recitation and no TAs and required attendance and graded homework and the like. It's just like high school, but at higher courses. I think that is a lot better than what I see in univesities where you have lecture halls full of people. Why should the methodology change because of the material changing. I learn calculus and chemistry, the same way I learn wrestling and gymnastics. With practice.

	23-10-2003 08:39									#123
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I think some people forget that college is for specialized education. SO that you can get more training and knowledge for the field of work you want to go into. Most of this other stuff just comes from living life, from your parents, and other people who have been around longer then you and have lots of wisdom. Looking to a university I think is a big misstake.

I am going to school so that I can go into computer programming, not so that I can learn morals or other things. I look towards my parents and religion for that.

	23-10-2003 08:42									#124
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quote: Originally posted by Odin Pekka, It is a MS (Master of Science) or MA (Master of Arts), not MD, that is for medical school students. I am planning to major in Evolutionary Biology at a very good, but small, college in northern Wisconsin that focuses on science and the humanities. The main reason I think required courses are needed is to stop ignorance, which fuels such things as creationism, political apathy, racism, religious fundimentalism, etc. I just wish college was payed for by taxes, high school education has become a fiscal black hole from the dumbing down of the curiculum, so now it like paying for some real education people should of gotten in high school.

Well here in my state of California, California residents only have to pay a flat fee of about $1200 dollars a semister. THat is for a full time student in the CSU system. Lots of tax money goes into the Public universities and community college system here, but fees have been going up because of the buget problems in here in California.

	23-10-2003 09:48									#125
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I'm for the core classes. I took science as a joke, but now I wish I didn't so much. I'd like to know more about physics (at least). Though I did learn some about Astronomy and the Greenhouse Effect .

It probably was better for me than another Political Science, History, or Economics course (of which I had plenty).

Though I'm happy I didn't have to take more math than I did .

	23-10-2003 11:04									#126
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quote: Originally posted by Azazel I guess I really like our system, then. Of course, students have to organize themselves, but I don't know how it is in Europe, but in Israel, you cannot enroll, if you won't be able to study properly ( class rooms, etc.) I don't know why, but it seems that your systems drag you on through university for eternity.

Well university access varies widely across Europe. The Austrian system of open access is a bit out of line. The politicians established it, but never put up the money to pay for it. We have about 2500 profs for 200-250000 students. Add to that about 8000 "Assistents" which includes everything from associate profs to lab rats, but it still means many institutes are seriously understaffed.

	23-10-2003 12:01									#127
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quote: Originally posted by Odin Pekka, It is a MS (Master of Science) or MA (Master of Arts), not MD, that is for medical school students. I am planning to major in Evolutionary Biology at a very good, but small, college in northern Wisconsin that focuses on science and the humanities. The main reason I think required courses are needed is to stop ignorance, which fuels such things as creationism, political apathy, racism, religious fundimentalism, etc.

You forgot Communism.

	23-10-2003 12:43									#128
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No to required courses. I know some friends that werent motivated in required courses and scored lower GPS than their core classes. Its a little bit unfair to have your GPA lowered just because you ****ed around in some class you didnt want to be in in the first place. Sure the person deserve the low grade that they earned ultimately, but what was the reason that I registered this calss in the first place? given choice that person probably wpuldnt have been in that class to avoid such grade.

Plus What Jack said. If you are interested in learning broad, you should have access to, but if not you shouldnt be forced.

	23-10-2003 13:53									#129
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quote: Originally posted by DanS Add to all of this is the fact that a much higher percentage of Americans go to college/university than in most other countries.

Yeah well, half of the colleges are crappy.

	23-10-2003 13:59									#130
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odin, OOOOOOOOPS you're absolutely correct.

	23-10-2003 14:34									#131
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quote: Originally posted by Urban Ranger That's why I got thousands of books everywhere, from the sciences to engineering to philosophy to how to write scripts. I will soon sleep on books

You too, huh?

I can't stand to see a good book tossed. Probably half of my collection are textbooks and novels someone left out for trash.

	23-10-2003 14:48									#132
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I sold some of my textbooks when I was a poor student. I wish I hadn't.

	23-10-2003 16:54									#133
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quote: Originally posted by SpencerH I believe Oxford/Cambridge gives its graduates a masters degree rather than a bachelors.

Not as such. Everyone who graduates at Oxbridge is a BA or BSc, but they have the option of paying for a master's degree too. This basically means that masters' from Oxbridge are worthless, but that doesn't seem to deter employers. There is no extra study involved for a master's, but you can greatly improve your CV if you ahve the right kind of money.

	23-10-2003 18:40									#134
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quote: Yeah well, half of the colleges are crappy.

Even with half of the attendees, the US would have a much higher percentage attending than most countries.

	23-10-2003 18:54									#135
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quote: In many countries, perhaps even most countries, a college degree is not required prior to entering medical school. Students can matriculate right out of high school.

Like here. You enter for 7 years, and end up being an MD, witha M.Sc, or a B.A in life sciences, as well.

quote: Well university access varies widely across Europe. The Austrian system of open access is a bit out of line. The politicians established it, but never put up the money to pay for it. We have about 2500 profs for 200-250000 students. Add to that about 8000 "Assistents" which includes everything from associate profs to lab rats, but it still means many institutes are seriously understaffed.

This doesn't sound right. They tried to do the same thing here, to let more people enroll, but the academia strongly protested, saying that it will lower the level of education, since no additional money was spent on hiring those lecturers needed, which creates the weird situations in which universities hold relatively low amounts of students, while doing lots of research.

here's a link I found about research rankings of economics departments in Europe. You can see that Israel has got two Unis in the top 10 ( my university is 28th ). In other research, Israel still ranks highly. AND STILL, those two big universities ( HebrewU and TAU ) hold only 22k and 27k students, respectively, while big universities around the world hold 40k or more.
Our institute has only some 12k students...

	23-10-2003 20:11									#136
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and where's the link?

	23-10-2003 20:37									#137
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quote: Originally posted by Azazel This doesn't sound right.

You mean the information is not correct? Or if you mean that's a totally stupid idea, then absolutely yes. But hardly surprising, as it came from politicians.

	23-10-2003 21:08									#138
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quote: Originally posted by DanS Even with half of the attendees, the US would have a much higher percentage attending than most countries.

That just barely counters the high percentage of illiteracy there.

	23-10-2003 21:22									#139
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HHa! 100% here! Beat that! IN your faces! We RRrock!

edit: that would be ability to read and write, not illiteracy

	23-10-2003 21:56									#140
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So Pekka, what is the rate of functional illiteracy in Finland?

	23-10-2003 21:58									#141
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HershOstropoler, I CRUSH!

	23-10-2003 22:20									#142
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That could hurt.

	23-10-2003 22:22									#143
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ah, the link:
http://www.univie.ac.at/Wirtschafts...ranking2001.htm

	23-10-2003 22:27									#144
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Ahh but those were only economic rankings.. that's for sissies! Azazel, we need to get you back on the track, so change your studies to software engineering FAST.

	23-10-2003 22:35									#145
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HELL NO! I AM NOT STUDYING ECONOMICS!
Though sometimes, I wish I was... they have so much less classes, for some reason..

I am studying Chemistry. WTF is Software engineering? I only know Comp. Sci. and it sucks.

	24-10-2003 00:19									#146
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quote: That just barely counters the high percentage of illiteracy there.

Shoot. We're light years ahead of Hong Kong.

We're middle of the pack on functional literacy--we're brought down somewhat by the high number of immigrants.

	24-10-2003 02:35									#147
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quote: Originally posted by Azazel ah, the link: http://www.univie.ac.at/Wirtschafts...ranking2001.htm

Ah, university of Vienna... they love doing all kinds of rankings, usually of limited quality, even for rankings...

But I have little doubt that Israel is doing quite well in science...

	24-10-2003 02:37									#148
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Since when is economics considered "science"? ... puh-lease.

	24-10-2003 02:37									#149
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Azazel, it's something fun you can do when you're at comp.sci.. . It's basically programming.

	24-10-2003 02:47									#150
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quote: Originally posted by Azazel Since when is economics considered "science"? ... puh-lease.

What gives you the strange idea i was talking about economics when I said "science"?