25-10-2003 02:41									#1
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There's death everyday, so I don't mean that kind of death. I mean deaths that are very close to you. By this I don't even mean a relative etc.. I mean you, yourself. How do you feel about that? Yes, we are all going to die, so are you and me.

And another thing, how did you deal with your parents death? I mean, my old man is getting older every time I see him. I know I said I didn't ever want to see him again, but things have changed a lot and I make the time to see him at least once a week. But every week he is older. How do you deal with that? He's in good health and looking for many years to come I hope, but how do you deal with the fact, that they start needing help some day? I mean, you do want to help them naturally, all you can do, but it just brakes my heart even to think about that they can't manage the daily things themselves and become pretty much like small kids again, needing help. They must be frustrated... and seeing they are frustrated, that's the worst I guess.

And sooner or later you get this feeling, that some day it's going to happen you know.. not tomorrow, maybe not next week, maybe not in next 5 years.. but soon. How do you deal with that? I try to think that's what happens to everyone and it's natural, but I usually get angry at nature anyway, because it's mightier than me .. Personally I try not to think about it too much, but lately I haven't been able to get my mind out of it.. I go as far as start seeing the funerals and all in my mind.. that's just depressing

	25-10-2003 02:45									#2
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And how about you oldies, how do you feel about it, since when you get older, there are more funerals to attend all the time.. friends and everyone is starting to go away. I myself threaten my inner organs and heart not to give up on me ever, and I think they're scared of me so they don't even dare to try that one, because I'd start beating on them.

	25-10-2003 02:45									#3
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Meditation and realization.
Realization that you are a small speck in the grand universe, and that nothing you do will probably be even remembered let alone missed.
Realization that most people will probably have forgotten your name in a hundred years.
Realization that you will be either reborn into a new form or become an ascended master.
Realization that this cycle never ends.

	25-10-2003 02:47									#4
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I don't deal with death, death deals with me....

	25-10-2003 02:49									#5
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Tass, Yeah I guess that's what I try to think. That's life.
I'm not so worried about my own behalf, I mean if I go today, it would truly suck and I'd miss many things I'm looking forward to do and see, but I have no pity for myself. But I do feel bad often when I think my old man is starting to finish his journey some day.

	25-10-2003 02:51									#6
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You're correct in the attending more and more funerals, Pekka.
Personally, I don't know how a person of no faith can bear it.

As far as me dying, I'm not worried. At least not for me.
And since I'm a person of faith, I fully expect my daughter to realize and bear it, since she's of faith also.

That said, it was difficult sitting through the night with my dad when he was leaving.
My brother's couldn't deal, and went to the house.
Sooooo, I stayed the night with him.
Next morning during shift change, 6:30 or so, he left.

It's the things that don't get said that cause brain drain.
Knowing that, be sure and say them.

	25-10-2003 02:51									#7
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My daughter was 2 years and 8 months old, and we went to the graveyard to put a flower on my father's grave on Christmas Eve. I told her that "Grandpa is sleeping under this stone" and she replied: But dad, how can someone sleep when he's dead?

	25-10-2003 02:54									#8
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My way to deal with death is very simple: I've decided I'll hadncraft my own death very precisely, to be a master of it. I'm hoping for a good suicide, and I'll prepare a good funeral beforehand.

I couldn't bear failing my death.

	25-10-2003 02:56									#9
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Something like suicide, of a physically healthy person, pisses me off.

	25-10-2003 02:56									#10
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Death is the only thing we can all be sure to expect in our future

	25-10-2003 02:57									#11
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Sloww, Yes I believe that for example he'll go to a better place and I'll get to see him when it's my time, after that.. also for myself, I don't know I don't have my own family, when I do then I might think differently, but as of now I have no real ties so I'm not that worried. I think that my last thoughts would be somewhere between 'well I had a good run' and 'I hope no one gets too depressed about this.

You know, it's constantly in my thoughts that I'm also sitting next to him, and then I take a bathroom brake or something else and he's gone when I come back. And then there is the famous things left unsaid part that comes with it, and it will be the worst. And realizing it, I still can't get my act together and say those things right now. That's just stupid, isn't it?

	25-10-2003 03:00									#12
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quote: Originally posted by SlowwHand Something like suicide, of a physically healthy person, pisses me off.

I consider suicide a state where the spirit realizes that its body has become a trap instead of a tool for itself.

Some christians believe that suicides go to a dark place in hell. I disagree for two reasons:
-God isn't that merciless
-Hell is simply a state of enlightenment compared to the purity of a spirit. Remember several things make a spirit impure, such as being evil or suffering from depression, etc etc....A true pure being experiences enlightenment and ascends, while the rest of us don't. Enlightenment occours at every second however, and if we are impure then we enter a state of hell.

Isn't that INTERESTING?

	25-10-2003 03:00									#13
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Chemical Ollie, that's pretty funny, even if it's.. you know, not funny... I guess she has her facts straight!

It's strange you know.. I just seem to feel that when I bury my old man, it will be the worst moment of my life and I don't know if I can take it very well. I'm emotinally handicapped . I guess they should lock the booze and guns, and take away the car keyes for at least few months! But I have no problems of thinkign that my son will bury me (if have a son that is). That's cool. But when it's my turn and duty? Oh hell...

	25-10-2003 03:01									#14
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It's human, Pekka.
Realization is the first step.
If you know, but don't say, it will make ita ll the worse.

	25-10-2003 03:02									#15
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What a silly question....from the bottom of the deck of course!

	25-10-2003 03:02									#16
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quote: Originally posted by SlowwHand Something like suicide, of a physically healthy person, pisses me off.

Yeah, but what if that person is mentally unhealthy?

I can honestly tell you that if you fvck it up once, you'll have a really hard time trying again. Maybe that's what keeps you alive afterwards.

	25-10-2003 03:04									#17
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Sloww, exactly it'll make it worse.

It also bugs me, that I'm thinking of this so much. I mean, he is in good health. For his age? Like a superman. Little over 60... but physical condition is of a 40 year old who's in shape. Few years ago people took him for a 40 year old.. head full of hair, still has his muscles showing and not fat. But after the divorce some time ago, it seemed like he started ageing faster.. you can see it in the eyes so clearly.. the age thing. So you know, even when there's the excellent physical health.. you never know when something starts to mailfunction.. heart can let down at any moment anyway. So I think about it a lot and that bugs me even more. Am I subconsciously preparing for the moment? You can't really be ready for it anyway.

	25-10-2003 03:04									#18
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quote: Originally posted by SlowwHand Something like suicide, of a physically healthy person, pisses me off.

I'm a commie pondering suicide. How come you don't encourage me ?!

	25-10-2003 03:10									#19
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My father got the message he had an incurable cancer when I was 19. He lived for 3 more years until it eventually spread to the skeleton and ate him from within. I was extremely sad several times during his 3-year struggle, but when he finally died, I had already prepared for it so much that I was not crying except for the actual funeral.

Experiencing the death of your parents is a normal but still painful thing. Still something everone has to go through sooner or later. But the opposite would be even worse. Just image the pain of your children dying before you do. I haven't felt that pain, and I hope I never will.

	25-10-2003 03:10									#20
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Jack of Clubs.

	25-10-2003 03:14									#21
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Chem, Yes that would be worse. That's not natural, or right to see your kids go.
I've been lucky enough to not been forced to watch someone very close to be very sick and go slowly. I can't think of any words to say anything to that, except that it must be bad.

I guess the WORST part for me is knowing, that when he goes, he'll go alone or with me. If he gets some kind of stroke or what ever in home, there will be no one to call the ambulance. Or if he gets to hospital and I'm not there, he'll be completely alone. That bugs me the most.

	25-10-2003 03:14									#22
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quote: Originally posted by st_swithin Yeah, but what if that person is mentally unhealthy?

I think it goes without saying that anyone who commits suicide is having mental health issues.

	25-10-2003 03:15									#23
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Hacksaw and refridgerator.

	25-10-2003 03:16									#24
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quote: Originally posted by Pekka Chemical Ollie, that's pretty funny, even if it's.. you know, not funny... I guess she has her facts straight! It's strange you know.. I just seem to feel that when I bury my old man, it will be the worst moment of my life and I don't know if I can take it very well. I'm emotinally handicapped . I guess they should lock the booze and guns, and take away the car keyes for at least few months! But I have no problems of thinkign that my son will bury me (if have a son that is). That's cool. But when it's my turn and duty? Oh hell...

It was an extremely mature reply coming from a kid. My oldest daughter has always been way ahead in her development.

Burying your old man is one of the goals of your life. If you fail to accomplish that, you have failed your mission. He should not have to bury you. (Also see my post above)

	25-10-2003 03:17									#25
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quote: Originally posted by Chemical Ollie Experiencing the death of your parents is a normal but still painful thing. Still something everone has to go through sooner or later. But the opposite would be even worse. Just image the pain of your children dying before you do. I haven't felt that pain, and I hope I never will.

	25-10-2003 03:18									#26
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quote: Originally posted by SlowwHand I think it goes without saying that anyone who commits suicide is having mental health issues.

I see it as more of a spiritual issue.

quote: I've been lucky enough to not been forced to watch someone very close to be very sick and go slowly. I can't think of any words to say anything to that, except that it must be bad.

The first few times it is, but each time you see someone slowly slipping away you begin to realize the facts, and you no longer weep for them.
Death becomes more like a celebration (no, not because they died ) but because they will live again. And hopefully have a happier, more pure life than before
It's difficult to explain...and I hope i'm explaining it well enough

	25-10-2003 03:19									#27
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Absolutely it is a great duty. That's one of the few things that you won't let someone down, and do it even if you feel sick and miserable, you'll go and do it and try to maintain some level of strength at least for a while.

	25-10-2003 03:24									#28
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Hmm. You pose a very interesting question, Pekka, and one that humanity has thought of since time immemorial.

As for myself, I have faith. My faith is drawn from the newborns who enter this world every day. My faith is drawn from the beauty of a night sky wheeling overhead, millions of stars, planets and galaxies stretching into Eternity. My faith is drawn from the kind acts we do. My faith is renewed by the laughter of children. My faith is found when I exercise outdoors, and become immersed in the ways of nature. All of those things, to me, personify what God, Allah, et al., really are.

So when I die, I want my physical remains cremated. My soul will have other duties to attend to.

Gatekeeper

	25-10-2003 03:28									#29
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That's the other thing I'm a bit worried.. he's a good man and has shown it with his actions. But he had a strict religious home, very strict, and he's drawn away from religion for obvious reasons. And the ex-wife who left him (my mom) is a pastor, and did it with the most cold way. So you I'm worried that he's kind of angry about that, and I know he is so I'm not sure if he wants to accept being saved because he's super stubborn. My hope is with mercifull God that will take him even if he kind of grabbed every stone and door knob in his way . Because he's a good, honest and hardworking man. But I'm still bit worried about that one.

	25-10-2003 03:37									#30
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Anyway, this thread isn't supposed to be this grim. I just wanted to make this, because I think about this too often and get a lump in my throat. But I guess it's just realizing this that makes me think about it and it'll get a lot easier when time goes by and I accept it before it happens. And may there be many many years ahead.

On the positive note, first cover of snow just came here.. it's beautiful .