27-10-2003 19:01									#31
	Browse Apolyton AD-FREE

quote: Originally posted by Jamski Nope, they're just pissed at seeing crosses EVERYWHERE, and people saying "God bless ____" and Xmas, and Easter, and St Patrick's Day. For an athiest its HELLISH having all this Christian stuff hanging around. If you are a Christian, imagine it the other way round - living as a Christian in an Athiest world. People would laugh at you for giving Xmas presents etc... Walk a mile in the other guys shoes... (most atheists were brought up as Christians, so they have already seen the others side) -Jam

Only ass holes whine at everything under the sun. If you dont like Christmas, dont celebrate. I dont. I dont ***** and moan about it.

	27-10-2003 19:02									#32
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

I do live in an athiest world.

	27-10-2003 19:04									#33
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

quote: Originally posted by MikeH I do live in an athiest world.

I thought you lived in a material world?

	27-10-2003 19:05									#34
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

quote: Originally posted by Dr Strangelove I wonder what would happen if someone put up an atheist monument? Something onthe order of: "John, Jane, Billy and Susie Doe and "Spot" Killed here *** **, **** Gone and definitely just gone Not in heaven, nope, not at all Just dead as dead can be You better believe it So wise up dummy, and move on along There's nothing to see here"

I want that on my tombstone

Well Lincoln, it does seem enormous insensitive how these people are carrying on. It is not an issue of religion but an issue of a family mourning the loss of their loved ones. This isn't an issue of religion, just one of plain unnecessary pettiness...

	27-10-2003 19:06									#35
	Increase Your PM Length

Same thing, isn't it?

	27-10-2003 19:06									#36
	Remove this text

quote: Originally posted by Sprayber I thought you lived in a material world?

'cause I am a material girl?

Point.

	27-10-2003 19:11									#37
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

quote: Originally posted by MikeH 'cause I am a material girl? Point.

No point here. Move along now.

	27-10-2003 19:13									#38
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

quote: Originally posted by Jamski How is a road accident an anti-religious attack? WTF? -Jam

Please, don't play stupid -- the accidents were not anti-religious attacks.

The whining and moaning by atheists who are so insecure with themselves that they have to protest personal memorials are doing the anti-religious attaacks.

	27-10-2003 19:24									#39
	Inflate your Upload Space

I am a qure atheist, but I don't think there is anything wrong in erecting religious memorials, as long as they don't damage the landscape and as long as they aren't dangerous for the drivers. Atheist memorials (cause atheists can mourn their dead too) are exactly the same in my book.

We live in Christian societies that are still deeply influenced by their christian history. As a result, it is normal to see tons of Christian symbols here and there. If you lived in a Muslim country, you'd see tons of Muslim symbols too. I don't think it is a reason to complain, as long as you're free n ot to believe, as long as you're not forced to have religion taught to you, as long as the State doesn't condone or condemn any religion in any form.

In the case of our teddy bears, it would be very awkward if the State made memorials speaking about heaven and God. But if they are done by individuals, and if they don't cause problems to the living, I see no problem with these memorials.

BTW, there is a deadly road near Bordeaux that is covered by memorials paid by local authorities. Said 'memorials' are silhouettes shaped from the dead of car accidents. It is very spooky and awkward, despite being completely nonreligious. I'd take a cross or a teddy bear anyday over those

	27-10-2003 19:27									#40
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

quote: Originally posted by MikeH 'cause I am a material girl? Point.

Does that mean that you are like a virgin?

	27-10-2003 19:30									#41
	Get a bigger avatar today!

quote: BTW, there is a deadly road near Bordeaux that is covered by memorials paid by local authorities.

Didn't it occur to them to spend all that money on making the road a little less deadly?

	27-10-2003 19:33									#42
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

They have no case because the point of "Roadkill Shrines," as we call them in my family, is not directly to endorse religion but to remember the person who died at that spot. Religious statements happen to be a definite facet of remembering the dead for many people.

I don't know rhetorical devices too well; I know strawman and ad hominem, but what do you call it when people try to prop up a bad argument with a sound one? A logic-crutch? That seems to be what's going on here. The only sound argument they have is that state troopers are supposed to remove all roadside postings put up without license, and they're using it to ignore the first amendment rights of others while advancing their own.

	27-10-2003 19:33									#43
	Get a bigger avatar today!

Now if local communities are paying for memorials at the expense of making their part of the roads safer, that's a different story.

	27-10-2003 19:40									#44
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

quote: Originally posted by Spiffor BTW, there is a deadly road near Bordeaux that is covered by memorials paid by local authorities. Said 'memorials' are silhouettes shaped from the dead of car accidents. It is very spooky and awkward, despite being completely nonreligious. I'd take a cross or a teddy bear anyday over those

I saw them last time I went to Belfort.

quote: Originally posted by FrustratedPoetDidn't it occur to them to spend all that money on making the road a little less deadly?

It's not the roads that are deadly, it's the people driving on them.
I heard a few days ago that there's like 25% less deaths on the french roads compared to last year.

	27-10-2003 19:40									#45
	Full PM-box? Change here!

what does this have to do with atheism?

	27-10-2003 19:43									#46
	Remove this text

quote: Originally posted by FrustratedPoet Didn't it occur to them to spend all that money on making the road a little less deadly?

I don't think so. But at least, these "memorials" are cheap. No hard stone, no art. Just a plane of wood or carton painted in black and roughly cut like a human silhouette. One like that per dead.

Edit: I forgot to mention, but this road is right between the wineries of Bordeaux. Not that it has anything to do with the death toll

	27-10-2003 19:43									#47
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

They might have a few points, but for the wrong reason.

In Sweden, there's an annual christmas campaign by the clothes-company H&M that includes huge signs with top-models that some people have called traffic-hazards - Anna-Nicole Smith a number of years ago gave the largers roar, not so much when they used Steve Buscemi - as those would lead to men losing control of their cars. Much of the critice comes from feminist groups that doesn't want them there for other reasons but the traffic-hazard point is often made. Maybe the pictures are demeaning to women, but so are the statements about men that can't control themselves just because of a picture of a half-naked woman. Once again, an argument is used for the 'wrong' reason.

	27-10-2003 19:45									#48
	Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

Sorry, I'm trying to give up smoking (after 12 years) and I'm ready to be an argumentative arsehole on ANY subject at the moment.

For "God's" sake someone e-mail me a Marlboro.

-Jam

	27-10-2003 19:47									#49
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

Jamski, check your PMs

	27-10-2003 19:51									#50
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

Thanks Spiff

Although I want one even more now

* Jamski lights up a virtual cig *

No good - I still feel a need to kill the cat.

-Jam

	27-10-2003 19:53									#51
	Support Apolyton

Why not use the patch since cold turkey seems to be going badly for you?

	27-10-2003 19:53									#52
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

there used to be a site which had digital crack. if you could find that...

	27-10-2003 19:54									#53
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

What about chewing gum? Won't that have you stress out?

	27-10-2003 19:56									#54
	Suffering from ads?

Actually, a good troll may do the trick. Explain right from the beginning why you are trolling so hard, and fine someone who msut calm down as well. You'll both stress out hurling insults at each other

(I'm sure it's fine as long as it is mutual consent )

	27-10-2003 20:26									#55
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

some relationships thrive on conflict, after all.

	27-10-2003 20:31									#56
	Suffering from ads?

Let's see, extremeist atheists concerned about road hazards. Move along, nothing to see here.

Y'all a bunch of jackasses.

	27-10-2003 20:35									#57
	Browse Apolyton AD-FREE

Chegitz, personal memorials that are placed OFF the side of the roads are not road hazards in my book.

	27-10-2003 21:17									#58
	Tired of ads?

quote: Originally posted by MrFun Chegitz, personal memorials that are placed OFF the side of the roads are not road hazards in my book.

Anything which distracts the driver from concentrating on the road is a road hazard. Maybe it's not a big deal out in Iowa, where no one lives, but in places like Florida, with a high concentration of idiot drivers, I don't need them having another reason to not pay attention. I live in the 8th worst city in America for car crashes, so excuse me if I have a more life-preserving perpective on this than you.

	27-10-2003 21:24									#59
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

quote: Anything which distracts the driver from concentrating on the road is a road hazard. Maybe it's not a big deal out in Iowa, where no one lives, but in places like Florida, with a high concentration of idiot drivers, I don't need them having another reason to not pay attention. I live in the 8th worst city in America for car crashes, so excuse me if I have a more life-preserving perpective on this than you.

then please, oh please, take down billboards en masse. get rid of cows and horses that you can see from the highway, unless you put up a sound barrier.

	27-10-2003 21:57									#60
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

Yeah, and don't plant pretty flowers along the highway either. We don't want to cause the untimely death of anyone. Paint everything black within 20 miles of every road so all nuts everywhere will be happy. And don't allow sunsets either!