02-11-2003 23:05									#31
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quote: Originally posted by Albert Speer yet the voting base of the GOP has remained the same, being composed of a coalition of the religious right (many of whom were opposed to slavery) and big business (GOP tariffs [the other big issue that started the war] were wanted by northern industry). this coalition has remained constant all through the GOP's history.

No, the Religious Right and Religous Left switched parties in the 1960s.

	02-11-2003 23:06									#32
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quote: Originally posted by Albert Speer yet the voting base of the GOP has remained the same, being composed of a coalition of the religious right (many of whom were opposed to slavery) and big business (GOP tariffs [the other big issue that started the war] were wanted by northern industry). this coalition has remained constant all through the GOP's history.

By the 1890s, many more Republicans were interested in sectional reconciliation in the spirit of white supremacy -- and especially with economic interest in mind, as well.
They were getting increasingly expaserated and frustrated with the "negro" question and a newer generation of Republicans by the 1890s began to change the Republican party's outlook.

	02-11-2003 23:07									#33
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quote: I think Dean just killed his shot at the nomination.

If this sticks, he definently did. But I think he wouldn't have won anyway... his pro-NRA stance will really bite him in the butt. Anyway, this statement will help bury him.

	02-11-2003 23:08									#34
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Dean definately needs to explain himself. I'm sure he meant that poor, Southern, white voters need to stop supporting the party of the Rich, and start supporting the other party of the rich.

	02-11-2003 23:16									#35
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Southerners have a lot of political clout, but they are practically irrelavent in the big picture. Most of today's "southern Democrats" are more like Republicans. It is this reason that most of the dem canidates have been spineless lately, they go for the republican-lites like Clinton, Lieberman, and Clark.

Che,

	02-11-2003 23:42									#36
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If I can't have Dean, I'll just vote LIbertarian.....

	02-11-2003 23:44									#37
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come on republicans! defend yourself!

the lefties just called you all extremely racist!

I want a flame war!

I hate republicans for the most part, so I can't participate.

	02-11-2003 23:45									#38
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quote: It is this reason that most of the dem canidates have been spineless lately, they go for the republican-lites like Clinton, Lieberman, and Clark.

Yeah, because those are the ones that win .

Oh, but I won't mind if Dems decide to be 'ideologically pure' and don't care about wooing moderates .

	02-11-2003 23:48									#39
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quote: Originally posted by NeOmega If I can't have Dean, I'll just vote LIbertarian.....

Oh -- throw away your vote, why don't ya?

	02-11-2003 23:51									#40
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quote: the lefties just called you all extremely racist!

Let 'em call us whatever they want . Dean likes Confederates

[q]throw away your vote, why don't ya?[q]

I'm remembering that Simpsons episode with the two aliens running for president...

	03-11-2003 00:33									#41
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quote: Originally posted by DinoDoc They don't vote in Democratic primaries. You should wait until the general election to slit your own throat with your Southern hating base.

Yeah, but AFAIC, ol' Howie should take himself out sooner, rather than later, so we have a chance at a real alternative to Bush.

	03-11-2003 00:39									#42
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quote: Originally posted by Albert Speer yet the voting base of the GOP has remained the same, being composed of a coalition of the religious right (many of whom were opposed to slavery) and big business (GOP tariffs [the other big issue that started the war] were wanted by northern industry). this coalition has remained constant all through the GOP's history.

So you think the Falwell-Robertson "religious right" of today is the same as the abolitionist movement of the 1820's to 1860's?

Yes, and big business wanted tariffs as protectionist corporate pork to further their goal of imposing an economic stranglehold on the south. So is whoring to protectionist corporate welfare interests something to be proud of?

	03-11-2003 00:42									#43
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quote: Originally posted by chegitz guevara J.C. Watts (former Republican congressman),

Welcome to reality, JC Watts is still a very avid Republican, he only stepped out to start building his campaign for a bigger office.

I'm from Oklahoma, Chez-Its. Watts was my Congressman.

	03-11-2003 01:04									#44
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quote: Originally posted by MrFun By the 1890s, many more Republicans were interested in sectional reconciliation in the spirit of white supremacy -- and especially with economic interest in mind, as well. They were getting increasingly expaserated and frustrated with the "negro" question and a newer generation of Republicans by the 1890s began to change the Republican party's outlook.

Mr. fun what party do you think controlled the south during the 1960's ?

	03-11-2003 01:05									#45
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quote: Originally posted by chegitz guevara Dean definately needs to explain himself. I'm sure he meant that poor, Southern, white voters need to stop supporting the party of the Rich, and start supporting the other party of the rich.

The only sensible post in this whole thread

	03-11-2003 01:06									#46
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Dean is really quite offensive, is he not? I saw Miller on Meet the Press. He said that Dean has no concept of the South and that the National Democrat party today is clueless.

Miller cited JFK as a great Democrat - strong on defense and a tax cutter. JFK carried his share of Southern states despited being a Catholic.

Miller then cited McGovern and Mondale. One was the apostle of appeasement. The other promised to raise taxes. What they had in common was that each won exactly one state in the election, none in the South.

Dean and most of the other candidates share the values of the two greatest losers in Democrat party history.

And as to those who charge that the Republican Party is racist, who is in favor of vouchers and who are against?

	03-11-2003 01:23									#47
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Dean is pandering to try and get more votes - he's been doing that for a while now, to the point where I'm not bothered by what he says because I know he's just trying to get votes, not saying things with any conviction. The question is why make such a strategically stupid move? Dean has next to no chance in carrying states in the south and I am very doubtful that this will help him in the south more than it hurts him elsewhere (in fact, it might not even help him in the south since it's so blatently pandering that it rings false).

quote: JFK carried his share of Southern states despited being a Catholic.

Of course, his choice of VP might have helped

	03-11-2003 01:25									#48
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quote: Originally posted by chegitz guevara No, the Religious Right and Religous Left switched parties in the 1960s.

Wrong again, Chez-Its.

The Republican party still stands on pretty much the same moral and economic positions it was founded on.

They are on the right instead of the Left because the amoeba Democrats switched from being Ultra Right to being Ultra Wrong.

	03-11-2003 01:32									#49
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The democratic party has been around too long. And they seem to outlived their usefulness.

What ever happened to the whigs or the federalists? I'm more of a whig

	03-11-2003 01:44									#50
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I'm kinda fuzzy, but if I remember correctly the Federalists took a losing position on a war and dwindled out of existence.

	03-11-2003 01:50									#51
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quote: Yeah, but AFAIC, ol' Howie should take himself out sooner, rather than later, so we have a chance at a real alternative to Bush.

Yeah.. if you guys vote for Dean, moderate Repukes like myself will be forced to vote for Bush. Don't want that to happen, do you?

(yes, I'm making no bones that I'd prefer Kerry to be our new President over Bush, even though my party affiliation still say Republican).

	03-11-2003 01:51									#52
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Good for Dean.

	03-11-2003 01:52									#53
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quote: Originally posted by Ned And as to those who charge that the Republican Party is racist, who is in favor of vouchers and who are against?

Let's not kid each other. The primary intent of vouchers is to allow public tax money (most of which is not paid by the parents of school age kids, their tax contributions are only a small part of the per-kid cost) to be diverted to private religiously based schools.

The voucher movement sprouted right out of the ashes of the "Committee for Excellence in Education" a religious right group which tried to gain stealth control of public school boards all over the US.

	03-11-2003 01:53									#54
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Dissident, the Whigs became the Republican Party when they merged with the Abolistionists, aka, the religious right - the people who ended slavery and who passed the 13th and 14th amendments.

The Democrats strut and puff that they are the party of equal rights. But it was the Republican Party that passed the civil rights legislation in the 50's and 60's. It was Eisenhower who sent in the troops to support Brown v. Board of education.

The slanders and smears of the Democrats are shamless. It is amazing than any minority supports that party since it is the Republican Party that truly is the party of equal opportunity.

	03-11-2003 01:55									#55
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quote: Originally posted by NeOmega If I can't have Dean, I'll just vote LIbertarian.....

I'm voting Libertarian anyways. But I'm gonna register Dem to vote for Dean in the primary.

I wonder how many Libs are supporting Dean.

	03-11-2003 01:57									#56
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quote: Originally posted by GhengisFarb Wrong again, Chez-Its. The Republican party still stands on pretty much the same moral and economic positions it was founded on.

Using the power of the Federal government to regulate "appropriate" personal morals and corporate welfare whoring? Yes, the party that brought us the crashes of 1873 and 1929, both by fraud bubbles.

What happened to that bit about invading Granada (Nicaragua) and setting up a colony to export all the darkies to, since they wouldn't be able to integrate into "white society?" (Lincoln and Stanton) Or Stanton's vision of the greater American empire?

	03-11-2003 02:01									#57
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quote: Originally posted by Sprayber Mr. fun what party do you think controlled the south during the 1960's ?

Hard to say, since by the late 1940s, many white Southerners felt betrayed by the Democratic platform of equal rights under Truman's campaign.

	03-11-2003 02:20									#58
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quote: Originally posted by Ned The Democrats strut and puff that they are the party of equal rights. But it was the Republican Party that passed the civil rights legislation in the 50's and 60's. It was Eisenhower who sent in the troops to support Brown v. Board of education.

Interesting, how a minority party could pass legislation in your parallel universe.

quote: The slanders and smears of the Democrats are shamless. It is amazing than any minority supports that party since it is the Republican Party that truly is the party of equal opportunity.

As long as you don't unionize, and you accept that what's good for GM is good for America. Oh, and it helps if you're a WASP, too, but aren't those really universal values to which everyone aspires?

"Mexicans are better for that sort of work, since they're built lower to the ground" - Earl Butz, Nixon's first Secretary of Agriculture, on the question of using short handled hoes (which are notorious for leading to chronic back problems) in agriculture.

"If you're not a born-again Christian, you're a failure as a human being." -Jerry Falwell (an obvious Democrat )

"The idea that religion and politics don't mix was invented by the Devil to keep Christians from running their own country." -Jerry Falwell again.

"Our culture is superior. Our culture is superior because our religion is Christianity and that is the truth that makes men free." -Pat Buchanan

"We are engaged in a social, political, and cultural war. There's a lot of talk in America about pluralism. But the bottom line is somebody's values will prevail. And the winner gets the right to teach our children what to believe." -Gary Bauer Another good, equal opportunity Republican religious conservative.

"I have a black, a Jew, two women and a cripple" - James Watt, Reagan's first Secretary of the Interior.

So can the self-righteous trolling about how the Republican party is the selfless guardian of all that is right and good.

	03-11-2003 02:24									#59
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quote: Originally posted by Sprayber Mr. fun what party do you think controlled the south during the 1960's ?

"Yellow dog" "Democrats" - as in the old saying "I'd sooner vote for a yellow dog than a Republican."


Up until the late 60's, you couldn't call yourself a Republican, due to ol' Abe and the carpetbaggers being Republicans in name. To say that Orval Faubus and Lester Maddox were FDR New Deal Democrats is an absolute joke though - they had the same name, but sure as hell weren't the same party.

Any more than Zell Miller and Barbara Boxer are in the same party in more than name.

	03-11-2003 02:27									#60
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quote: Originally posted by MichaeltheGreat and setting up a colony to export all the darkies to, since they wouldn't be able to integrate into "white society?" (Lincoln and Stanton)

If you are talking about Liberia, I believe Frederick Douglas was a huge proponent of that. Himself a black ex-slave, abolitionist.