02-11-2003 10:12									#1
	Dean wants to be the candidate for those flying the Confederate Flag Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

http://www.cnn.com/2003/ALLPOLITICS...flag/index.html

quote: (CNN) -- Democratic presidential candidate Howard Dean sparked criticism from his rivals Saturday after invoking the Confederate flag in a defense of his views on gun control. "I still want to be the candidate for guys with Confederate flags in their pickup trucks," the former Vermont governor said in an interview published Saturday in the Des Moines Register. "We can't beat George Bush unless we appeal to a broad cross-section of Democrats." It was at least the second time Dean publicly used the Confederate flag to describe Southern voters who often vote for Republicans. Dean previously used the flag reference during a February meeting of the Democratic National Committee. At that event, Dean received a rousing ovation from the crowd when he said, "White folks in the South who drive pickup trucks with Confederate flag decals on the back ought to be voting with us, and not [Republicans], because their kids don't have health insurance either, and their kids need better schools too." All the other Democratic candidates at that time attended that session except Sen. John Kerry, of Massachusetts, who was absent for health reasons. Kerry and Rep. **** Gephardt, of Missouri, both issued statements Saturday attacking Dean's recent comments. Gephardt, who polls show is in a close race with Dean to win January's Iowa caucuses, wrapped his criticism in patriotism. "I don't want to be the candidate for guys with Confederate flags in their pickup trucks. I will win the Democratic nomination because I will be the candidate for the guys with American flags in their pickup trucks," Gephardt's statement said. Kerry used his statement to illustrate his views on gun control and his support of the NAACP. "Howard Dean is justifying his pandering to the NRA by saying his opposition to an assault weapons ban allows him to pander to lovers of the Confederate flag," Kerry said in his statement. "It is simply unconscionable for Howard Dean to embrace the most racially divisive symbol in America. I would rather be the candidate of the NAACP than the NRA." Dean told the National Rifle Association in a 1992 questionnaire that he opposed restrictions on private ownership of assault weapons, and received the NRA's highest ratings when he was governor. Dean has said he believes gun control laws should be a state matter, a position that might be considered a liability with the liberal base of the Democratic party, which supports federal gun control measures. Gephardt, the former House minority leader, said Dean appears to believe "that if we sacrifice our support for reasonable gun legislation like the assault weapons ban, we will win the support of those that disagree with us on bedrock Democratic values like civil rights." But a Dean spokesman called the criticism "a desperate political attack on the part of Governor Dean's opponents." Spokesman Jay Carson said Dean was trying to explain that Democrats need to broaden their appeal to Southern men, who in recent years have voted Republican in growing numbers. Carson said Dean has been using the flag line since he started campaigning, and that his rivals misconstrued it as support for the Confederate banner. "He uses colorful language to describe what he means. That's all that he is doing," Carson said. Dean's campaign staffers fired back at Kerry in particular, accusing him of writing off Southern voters. Spokeswoman Trish Enright pointed to a March article in the Charlotte Observer, which quoted Kerry describing a strategy in which he could take the presidency without winning a single Southern state.

Just thought all the Dean supporters should be aware of this. After all, many of them think that when Republicans back the Confederate flag, they are pandering to racists. Is Dean pandering to racists?

	02-11-2003 10:13									#2
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No, he's just an ignorant Yankee.

	02-11-2003 10:16									#3
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Shhh.. .you aren't a Dean supporter, Mike .

	02-11-2003 10:18									#4
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This is an old Dem. complaint: why do people who gain nothing financial from their allience with the Republican paty still back it so much?...which goes far to disprove the notion that human beings are solely profit maximizing machines chansing every buck.

	02-11-2003 10:20									#5
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oh, god, hasn't the confederate flag/dead horse been flogged enough times?

dean's funny. still doubt i'll vote for him, but he's funny.

	02-11-2003 10:49									#6
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quote: Originally posted by GePap This is an old Dem. complaint: why do people who gain nothing financial from their allience with the Republican paty still back it so much?...which goes far to disprove the notion that human beings are solely profit maximizing machines chansing every buck.

The Dems haven't been able to shed their tax and spend, big government, welfare state and whine about those evil military types images.

If you want to know what makes so many working class and middle class moderates and semi-conservative but not all the way card carrying RNC types puke, just listen to an hour of Barbara Boxer and her ilk.

	02-11-2003 12:34									#7
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I can't, I'd throw something thru the TV screen.

	02-11-2003 12:54									#8
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YEEEEEEHAHAH!HH!! REASIE TEH BOOONIE BLUE FLAG!!!

	02-11-2003 13:19									#9
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So Howie want to be my presidential candidate. Not likely Howie. But I'd love to see you in the general election.

	02-11-2003 13:25									#10
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Dean has my vote, as long as he supports my avatar

States Rights rule!

I know it won't be long until Ashcroft sets his sights on my immoral state. We can't let that happen. Vote democrat 2004!

	02-11-2003 16:20									#11
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Dean is right. The GOP hasn't done anything for the nation's working class or poor, whether white or black, Northern or Southern. In fact, they haven't even tried; they get their votes by getting them to believe that prayer in schools is a more important issue than affordable health care. If the Dems could get people to vote their material interests, the GOP wouldn't have a prayer. Luckily for the GOP, people aren't that bright and the Dems aren't competent enough to change that; Birkenstock-clad Berkely tree-huggers would rather bolt party than do the hard work of making common cause with white trash. And that's why the GOP's in charge.

But a Southerner with the confederate battle flag on his pick-up is still the same as a Bavarian with a nazi flag on his Volkswagen.

	02-11-2003 18:36									#12
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I really hope Dean is just pandering for votes. He could even try McCain's trick of getting Republican's to register as Democrats to help his nomination. I agree with him on most things, but if he actually supports the NRA, rather than just trying to get poor Southerners to vote for him, then he'd go down a lot in my estimation.

As it is, I think he's realised that there are a lot of people who want better education and healthcare, those who can't afford it privately, but don't want more regulation on their liberty, and he's trying to appeal to them. People who would vote Democrat, if they didn't think it meant more regulation. It could be a smart move, although it depends if they buy it.

	02-11-2003 21:15									#13
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rufus:

quote: If the Dems could get people to vote their material interests, the GOP wouldn't have a prayer. Luckily for the GOP, people aren't that bright and the Dems aren't competent enough to change that

If the GOP could get (minority) people to vote their social interests, the Dems wouldn't have a prayer. Luckily for the Dems, people aren't that bright and the GOP has too much of a democratic-fabricated rich, white man image to change that.


anyway, I wish Dean said this at one of those Black Caucus debates

	02-11-2003 21:17									#14
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He just wants to appeal to the broadest possible spectrum. Since confederate flag waving crackers were a big part of Bush's victory, it's not surprising Dean wants to take that vote away from him.

	02-11-2003 21:25									#15
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First off the Repubicans aren't racist, their economically biased.

The Democrats are the racists. The KKK is a Democrat special interest. The Confederacy was Democrat, the slaveowners were Democrats, and waving the Confederate flag is a ploy to gain Southern Democrat votes.

The only reason the Democratic party calls Republicans racist is to cover up their own history as the Nazi Party equivilent of United States.

	02-11-2003 21:27									#16
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I don't see any reason to call anyone a cracker.

You don't really see the redneck's vote much actually.

	02-11-2003 22:33									#17
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quote: Originally posted by Albert Speer If the GOP could get (minority) people to vote their social interests,

All they'd have to do is stop being such damned racists. When Black Republicans start leaving then party because of how they are treated (show up for photo ups, then go away), then the Repugs have absolutely no claim to the loayalties of anyone aside from clueless kids like you. The Repugs invited the Dixiecrats into the party, and they took over. They have no one to blame but themselves for how they are perceived. "If only Strom Thurmond had been elected President."

You are so stupid when it comes to race.

	02-11-2003 22:39									#18
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quote: Originally posted by GhengisFarb First off the Repubicans aren't racist, their economically biased.

Actually, they are extremely racist.

quote: The Democrats are the racists. The KKK is a Democrat special interest. The Confederacy was Democrat, the slaveowners were Democrats, and waving the Confederate flag is a ploy to gain Southern Democrat votes.

The Klan don't vote Democrat no more. Not since 1948, when Northern liberal Dem's made a decision to break with the Dixiecrats and make an outreach to Black voters (who were still largely voting Republican at the time. Even into the 1960s, up to one third of Blacks still voted Republican.

Then came Barry Goldwater's run for the president and his vocal opposition to Civil Rights. Then came Nixon's "Southern Strategy," too woo the Dixiecrats into the Republican Party. Then came Helm's filibuster against Martin Luther King Day. Then came Reagan's opposition to an extension of the Civil Rights bill. Then came the Republicans hammering home on the theme of "unqualifed" Blacks taking jobs from "deserving" whites. Then came The Bell Curve and The End of Racism.

The decendents of the people who fought to keep slavery are today the people who run Lincoln's party. One of the great ironies of history, doncha think?

	02-11-2003 22:40									#19
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quote: Originally posted by chegitz guevara When Black Republicans start leaving then party because of how they are treated

I was unaware of the mass Republican exodus, please enlighten me if you can.............

	02-11-2003 22:49									#20
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quote: if he actually supports the NRA

Yep... that he does.

quote: They have no one to blame but themselves for how they are perceived. "If only Strom Thurmond had been elected President."

How much better is that than saying: "I still want to be the candidate for guys with Confederate flags in their pickup trucks"

I love the Dean guys trying to plow this over. If Bush said this they'd be all over him, saying how he's a racist and whatnot. Ah, politics... gotta love it .

	02-11-2003 22:49									#21
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quote: Originally posted by Sava He just wants to appeal to the broadest possible spectrum.

They don't vote in Democratic primaries. You should wait until the general election to slit your own throat with your Southern hating base.

	02-11-2003 22:54									#22
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quote: Originally posted by GhengisFarb I was unaware of the mass Republican exodus, please enlighten me if you can.............

You'd have to have a mass of Black Republicans in the first place. Key Black Republicans who have left in disgust include: J.C. Watts (former Republican congressman), Robert Woodson, and Glenn Loury who both previously worked for the American Enterprise Institute and left when it helped publish The Bell Curve and The End of Racism. I'm sure, if I looked hard enough, I could find more.

	02-11-2003 22:54									#23
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Honestly I hope Dean apologizes for the wording..... it was dumb and I am a little shocked. It would be nice to see a politician nip this one in the butt and pre-emptively apologize before people start calling for him to step out of the race.

And Michael Moore is a card carrying memeber of the NRA, and I watched bowling for columbine....

And I like Dean's stance on gun control.

	02-11-2003 22:55									#24
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quote: Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui Just thought all the Dean supporters should be aware of this. After all, many of them think that when Republicans back the Confederate flag, they are pandering to racists. Is Dean pandering to racists?

Great -- now I'm not so sure about Howard Dean. I may have to choose one of the other candidates.

	02-11-2003 22:56									#25
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quote: I may have to choose one of the other candidates.

Pick Kerry .

	02-11-2003 22:57									#26
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quote: Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui How much better is that than saying: "I still want to be the candidate for guys with Confederate flags in their pickup trucks"

I think Dean just killed his shot at the nomination. If he'd left out the word "Confederate" he'd have been fine. I would hope he didn't mean it the way it sounds, as though he's aligning himself with the people of Southern Partisan.

	02-11-2003 22:59									#27
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quote: Originally posted by GhengisFarb First off the Repubicans aren't racist, their economically biased. The Democrats are the racists. The KKK is a Democrat special interest. The Confederacy was Democrat, the slaveowners were Democrats, and waving the Confederate flag is a ploy to gain Southern Democrat votes. The only reason the Democratic party calls Republicans racist is to cover up their own history as the Nazi Party equivilent of United States.

God this is an ignorant statement.

The Republican party and the Democratic party went through a political realingment in the 1890s and 1930s, so that today, they are two different parties than they were in the 1850s through 1880s.

The Republican party in the mid-nineteenth century was an activist party for civil rights and stronger federal government.

The Democratic party in the min-nineteenth century was a white supremacist party and advocated stronger states' rights.

To say that these two parties are the same today as they were in the mid-nineteenth century is incredibly naive.

	02-11-2003 22:59									#28
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had Dean said "American flag" instead of "Confederate flag" would there have been a difference in his meaning? aren't poor, southern whites among the most patriotic americans? they probably fly the stars and stripes right alongside the stars and bars.

	02-11-2003 23:03									#29
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quote: The Republican party in the mid-nineteenth century was an activist party for civil rights and stronger federal government.

yet the voting base of the GOP has remained the same, being composed of a coalition of the religious right (many of whom were opposed to slavery) and big business (GOP tariffs [the other big issue that started the war] were wanted by northern industry). this coalition has remained constant all through the GOP's history.

	02-11-2003 23:03									#30
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quote: Originally posted by Albert Speer had Dean said "American flag" instead of "Confederate flag" would there have been a difference in his meaning? aren't poor, southern whites among the most patriotic americans? they probably fly the stars and stripes right alongside the stars and bars.

My guess is it slipped out of his mouth as he was thinking of something one of his advisors said about luring southern votes in a closed door meeting. He really should apologize and move on. Strange he did this while being attacked by Al Sharpton, very strange.