04-11-2003 18:55									#1
	Graphics/Interface Requests Thread Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

Suggestions for changes in how CtP2 looks and interfaces (meaning tabs, pop ups, buttons)


1) Civ3 Interface
No box or tab on main screen only buttons and a minimap. But when you opened advisors the blocked out the entire mainmap, lack of hyperlinks, diplomacy didnt cover whole map, but you couldnt jump around either

2) CTP message system back in (optionally, of course) (J Bytheway)
(It allowed you to easily sift through everything of import that happened in a turn, and do so without taking up your main interface panel, which you could then use for other things.

3) interface elements of CTP1 (hexagonian)
(tab menus, messagebox icons)

4) Id like to see the screen centre on a city when i highlight it in the list (Maquiladora)

	04-11-2003 18:58									#2
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i would also like the underwater teriform pallet back as well as a spece imp palet

	04-11-2003 19:24									#3
	Re: Graphics/Interface Requests Thread Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

quote: Originally posted by E 1) Civ3 Interface No box or tab on main screen only buttons and a minimap. But when you opened advisors the blocked out the entire mainmap, lack of hyperlinks, diplomacy didnt cover whole map, but you couldnt jump around either.

Why are we always making references to the OTHER game?

I like the CtP2 interface though I know it can be improved.

For example, it would be great if I could access the city manager through the national manager by double clicking on a city name.

	04-11-2003 19:34									#4
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

actually would be nice (and for the lazy)

In the national manager, if having the general information, it shall open the city manager with the expert-tab

And if you are in the production overview, it shall open the building-queue.

I think that could be nice.............

	04-11-2003 19:52									#5
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Yes , definitely would be better with Civ3 interface

	04-11-2003 19:57									#6
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quote: Originally posted by Feephi Yes , definitely would be better with Civ3 interface

NO!

	04-11-2003 20:05									#7
	Full PM-box? Change here!

Civ3 is always mentioned as a point of reference since thats the lastest of the genre and has the biggest following now. If we cherry pick the best ideas or see what people really hate about civ3 AFTER we make debug CtP2 (which is all Tamerlin wants ) we could work to make not only a better ctp2 but beat the snot out of civ3

	04-11-2003 20:08									#8
	Increase the size of your Attachments

There is something definite inelegant about the CtP2 interface.

That isn't to say that there aren't good things. The Nation Manager is great. I like the build manager too.

Its just that the rest is quirky, and unintuitive. Unintuitive is one of the biggest sins an interface designer can make.

I think certain things like the city manager are far more clunky than they need to be. More information should be available all together, at a glance. You shouldn't need to flip tabs to see how other parts change, when you make changes.

	04-11-2003 20:13									#9
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when adding new things to a build list an option to add to top or add to bottom

	04-11-2003 20:17									#10
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you made a good point there

You change science/gold in the nation-manager and you can see down the number of turns to research.

you change experts and nothing changes in the display, even if you selected the city to open it

But which information would you like to see more compressed?

OK, would be nice to see production/hapiness/gold/......./ on one screen, but I think it would take far too much space.

	04-11-2003 20:17									#11
	Full PM-box? Change here!

quote: Originally posted by E Civ3 is always mentioned as a point of reference since thats the lastest of the genre and has the biggest following now.

It has the biggest following but this does not necessarily mean it is the best. I think we should see what can be improved and we should also alternatives finally if you liked the CTP1 tabs than you should be able to use them without build manager. If you liked the Civ2 city screen than you can use it or alternativly we should exten the tab then so that the view on the city is free, but contain all the necessary information on one glance.

-Martin

	04-11-2003 20:20									#12
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Anybody dislike the idea of a bigger, more inclusive city screen?

	04-11-2003 20:25									#13
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sounds nice, but we might have a conflict with 'message' length for the production. In certain languages, words might not fit in what has been given as space to display.

So we would need to take this into consideration. I think it will be mainly try and error

	04-11-2003 20:30									#14
	Tired of ads?

ever heard of scrolling boxes? *smiles*

We need to get someone graphically inclined looking at mock ups.

	04-11-2003 20:33									#15
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Considering that CTP2 was written to work down to low resolutions that we probably don't need to worry about so much any more, enlarging various dialogs to remove tabs seems like a good idea. It would, of course, be nice to leave the option of the old dialog for those who are still using 640x480 screens, but I guess it wouldn't be the end of the world if we didn't.

	04-11-2003 20:33									#16
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Some screen caps of Civ2, Civ3, Ctp1 & Ctp2 might be useful for this discussion.

	04-11-2003 20:34									#17
	Full PM-box? Change here!

Alternativly we could put the information on a side tab, which could be actual a modification of the city screen just placed at the side with altered dimensions and item order.

-Martin

	04-11-2003 20:38									#18
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Not sure follow you there, Martin. Could you elucidate?

You mean putting food/time to next pop, shields/time to construct,commerce/gold/science & happiness in a side bar?

	04-11-2003 20:40									#19
	Got spare money?

I find it sometimes already too much to scroll down and as the arrow-key's aren't working for the scrolling in the window (and I am lazy ) I don't wan't to scroll the sides as well............

But as you said:

quote: We need to get someone graphically inclined looking at mock ups.

:doitnow:

	04-11-2003 21:17									#20
	Tired of ads?

quote: Originally posted by E ... (which is all Tamerlin wants )...

I would like a debugged CtP2, ...

quote: ... we could work to make not only a better ctp2...

... a better CtP2 (improved AI and development of the original CtP2 concepts)...

quote: ... but beat the snot out of civ3

... and I am opened to a CtP2.5 of CtP3 provided it is not trying to mimick Civ3 which is still my biggest disappointment as far as computer games are concerned.

	04-11-2003 22:49									#21
	Increase the size of your Attachments

Could we make the CtP2 have a hidetask bar function like Windows has just so you can see more of the map?

I think the tabs might have to be reorganized and have links in them.

I'll try to get some screenshots in the first post. I dont have Ctp1 so I'll need those contributed.

	04-11-2003 22:58									#22
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My main issues with the civ3 interface was the lack of hyperlinks, messages were shown as the turn processed and then they disappeared, and that the cityscreen blocked out the mainmap. When purchasing, I'd like to see just what units are in the vicinity of the city. It still amazes me that Firaxis, in setting up the cityscreen, made the overview of the city on that screen static instead of scrollable and containing units as well as tile improvements.

I really liked the tabs in CTP1 because they allowed you to purchase units/buildings without leaving the screen and provided the basic info (cost and time) involved with the purchase. After a while in a game, I don't need to heavily micromanage purchases, and the CTP1 format was a good way to streamline the process.

But at the same time, I would still like the city manager screen expanded to include all four subscreens into one screen, so info could be seen as it relates to all other info concerning that city. Perhaps those screens could be stacked - 2 on the left side and 2 on the right and then the map could be centered in the middle. And then add the purchase screen at the bottom.

	04-11-2003 23:11									#23
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quote: Originally posted by E Could we make the CtP2 have a hidetask bar function like Windows has just so you can see more of the map?

It already does. Try pressing '/'.

	04-11-2003 23:13									#24
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I may be strange, but the city screen is one of my favorite parts about Civ 3 interface. I loved the fact that I saw the happiness and distribution of my citizens, improvements and units, as well as other numerical information, immediately in one screen.

	04-11-2003 23:19									#25
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quote: Originally posted by hexagonian But at the same time, I would still like the city manager screen expanded to include all four subscreens into one screen, so info could be seen as it relates to all other info concerning that city. Perhaps those screens could be stacked - 2 on the left side and 2 on the right and then the map could be centered in the middle. And then add the purchase screen at the bottom.

That's a good proposal - it means that you can still see whatever is the focus of the main map (probably the city itself) whilst the city screen is open. I get frustrated having to scroll around because a dialog I opened covered up the middle of the screen.

	04-11-2003 23:27									#26
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I agree. I think what the CtP2 designers were aiming for, was the flexibility to have many city dialogs open at once. Which might be useful, except they seemed to cripple the city dialog in the process.

The nation manager (especially having the ability to select multiple cities, and then alter their build queues simultaneously) really dealt with the multiple city management for me. Nothing you couldn't tell from there, basically.

Here's another thought... how about being able to change worker assignments globally; select multiple cities in the nation manager, then open a dialog and alter worker assignments globally from there? Interesting?

	04-11-2003 23:31									#27
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Worker assignments? you mean PW, tile improvement or the citizens?
It does okay on the empire tab about how much PW nationally you are doing and stuff, but I'd like to see a better break down of what comes from where. Like how much PW is coming from my corporate branch, an +5 or something instead of the cog on a map would be nice.
Same with gold. how much from cities, trade routes, diplomacy etc. But it appears i have a taste for micromanaging some aspects more than others... just give me the option

	04-11-2003 23:33									#28
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No. Worker assignments as in worker assignments.

Farmers, Scientists, Merchants and the other one who's name eludes me.

	04-11-2003 23:34									#29
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sorry I was confusing the workers with citizens/specialists. And I was dreading the Civ3 worker system which gets tedious (although I'd like a unit that would let you build in allied/enemy territory that could be captured...)

	04-11-2003 23:35									#30
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

quote: Originally posted by E Worker assignments? you mean PW, tile improvement or the citizens? It does okay on the empire tab about how much PW nationally you are doing and stuff, but I'd like to see a better break down of what comes from where. Like how much PW is coming from my corporate branch, an +5 or something instead of the cog on a map would be nice. Same with gold. how much from cities, trade routes, diplomacy etc. But it appears i have a taste for micromanaging some aspects more than others... just give me the option

I have nothing against including a dialog with a more detailed statistical breakdown, for the empire stuff. Wouldn't interfere with the game at all, unless you wanted it to, basically