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Commie Chocobo
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OK, so you are'nt anarchists, you are moderate anarchists, there is nothing wrong with that, but in your little world everyone should be, isnt that a little too conformist for your ideology?
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Berzerker
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topeka, kansas,USA
May 1999
time: 23:31
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Juggernaut - quote:
We must also make sure that this help will be uniformly handed out, with exactly the same amount each month. I would like to see how this would be guaranteed by charity. |
I'd like to see several million dollars in my bank account, that doesn't create for me the right to steal from others.
quote:
Why should anyone be punished? |
That's what happens when drugs aren't legal, people get punished for using them.
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And why should anyone use drugs at all? |
Why not? I can't speak for anyone else but I used them because they were fun to use.
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It provides an unnatural and possibly harmful escapism |
"Unnatural"? What does that mean? And what does "escapism" mean? Does that mean having fun is "escapism"? Oh boy, let's see you apply that standard to everything in life...
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and the two substitutes are much better:
1). Medical attention with therapy and possibly medication treatment from a physician who knows exactly what different drugs will help you. |
And what if people don't want your "treatment"? Jail time? Btw, physicians don't know exactly what different drugs will do to you, more people die from over the counter and prescription drugs every year than all the illegal drugs combined.
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2. ) Getting a controlled high with nice people in a bar and perhaps alcohol. |
Pardon me, but not everyone likes booze and you lack the moral authority to decide for everyone else that if they want to have fun, alcohol is the only "drug" they can use.
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Hypocrite, why alcohol and not "softer" drugs you say? Because "soft drugs" leads to "hard drugs", whilst alcohol is many times less likely and we have to draw the line somewhere. |
Where do you get this nonsense? First, "gateway" drugs is bogus "science" and highly illogical on it's face. Yeah, if you use pot your brain will desire cocaine. That's how "gateway" drugs suppoosedly work. No, the people who are pushing this gateway drug nonsense see 2 groups of people - 1 that has a higher proclivity to use drugs and a 2nd that lacks this proclivity - and they conclude there is something about the drugs that induce a desire to use other drugs. The reality is some people are more inclined to use drugs than other people and that's why the first group is more likely to try different drugs. It has nothing to do with the drugs but with human nature. Some people love to seek thrills and engage in all sorts of dangerous activities like rock climbing and sky diving, does that mean the first risky activity they engaged in was a "gateway" activity? I've played many sports in my life, if basketball was my first, is basketball a "gateway" sport? And when you say "we" have to draw the line somewhere, who appointed you the line drawer? YOU want the line drawn so don't cite others as your authority.
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Believe me, I've seen my best friends been sucked in to this pile of **** and hearing your friend tell you "I have shitloads of fun!!!" while his swollen, black and scared eyes are telling you a totally different story is still darn creepy. |
Which is why I said it is immoral to punish the people who don't over indulge because of the people who do. Some people die from alcoholism, is that a moral reason to punish everyone who uses alcohol? Of course not! Btw, if we asked everyone who has ever used a recreational drug which drug they first used, alcohol and tobacco would probably be at or near the top of the list so how you concluded alcohol is the least likely to "induce" other drug use is "escapism". 
Last edited by Berzerker on 06-11-2003 at 06:52
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St Leo
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Member of the Apolyton Social Democratic Party
Jul 2005
time: 00:31
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quote:
Originally posted by Japher
At heart, everyone wants power... Libertarianism prevents such a thing. |
No, a democratic tax-funded government prevents such a thing.
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Originally posted by Park Avenue So if you are in favour of multiculturalism, it also follows that you have strong tendencies towards libertarianism. |
Uh, no, it doesn't. Multiculturalism goes hand in hand with modern liberalism, not libertarianism. 55% of Toronto's 4.6 million are foreign-born, but we are about as laissez-faire as my mousewheel.
In the last provincial election, the multicultural Torontonians were twice as likely to vote for the New Democrats than the monocultural rural crazies.
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The problem is, however, that they are the communist of the right in that they rely too much on individual/coorprate contributions to society. |
Yep, you got that right. US works because it is is not Libertarian just like Canada and Europe work because they are not Communist. Any ideologically-pure crusader jihad to bring either closer to the truth would impoverish the people and weaken the country.
Change should be evolutionary, not revolutionary. Economy is not a science.
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Berzerker
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topeka, kansas,USA
May 1999
time: 23:31
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Juggernaut - quote:
I use the word unnatural as using drugs is what ultimately separates you from nature. In other words: you get wiped out. |
Many drugs are natural, and your characterisation of getting "wiped-out" is intentionally loaded, i.e., spin. Of all the drugs I've used, only alcohol "wiped" me out after over indulging... But that's the one drug you want kept legal, oh the irony.
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Drug use is about altering consciousness cause your normal mindset is too painful a state. Yes, that's very normal and should be embraced |
Huh? Obviously some people use drugs because of emotional or physical pain (my God, abolish all painkillers too), but we don't accuse schizophrenics of "escapism" for seeking relief from their "normal" mindset. And you are again spinning, it's not about "embracing" escapism, you want it outlawed. That means you want the state to dictate our state of mind. Do the "re-education centers" employed by the communists sound vaguely familiar?
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Tell me about a book that causes you to sitt in your own excrement and not care! That book should be banned... |
You mean like a drunk in an alley? Yeah, of the 80 or so million people who've used illegal drugs, just how many do you think sat in their own excrement.  If you want to use worst case scenarios, we'd ban food because of obesity induced death. Btw, wrt your "gateway" drug argument, how do you explain that of the ~80 million people who've used illegal drugs, only a tiny percentage used heroin?
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In what way are ignoring daily nurture/vitamine and excercise routines harmulf to others who are "weaker" and more likely to become addicted. |
Make up your mind, you've been arguing drugs should be illegal because of the potential harm to the user. So, not exercising and poor nutrition is potentially harmful to couch potatoes. Be consistent. I know you can't because consistency exposes the hypocrisy in your argument.
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In what way do you distribute harmful habits to othersby not taking your daily aerobics... |
Like father, like son? If a parent's drug use increases the chance their kid will use drugs, then that holds true for other behaviors, including being a couch potato...
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Just because you fancy your little friday (I hope not weekday ) entertainment which basically's pretty dull anyway doesn't mean weaker persons life should be gamled with. |
Who's gambling? Are you now responsible for alcoholics if you drink booze? That's your argument...
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Why is it that the people telling me "I'm strong, I can handle this" always are the people that end up in rehab? Be creative instead of using such crap... |
I've never been to rehab, your arguments are based on generalisations. And most of the people who have been to rehab were coerced by the courts so it's illogical to point to rehab stats as proof of some problem. Do you also accuse black people of being criminals based on the fact some black people commit crimes?
One last point, do you have proof drug prohibition has reduced consumption? If not, why would you advocate a policy that results in all sorts of societal pathologies without achieving any successes? When was the last time you heard of alcohol dealers having shootouts over marketshare? Oh, if your answer is alcohol prohibition, take a few minutes to think about that...
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Caligastia
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quote:
Originally posted by Lazarus and the Gimp
Now wait for my two-line post to be dissected and waffled over, word by word. |
I considered doing that but got bored thinking about it.
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06-11-2003 03:48
) entertainment which basically's pretty dull anyway doesn't mean weaker persons life should be gamled with. Why is it that the people telling me "I'm strong, I can handle this" always are the people that end up in rehab? Be creative instead of using such crap...
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